The Iran War

[93henfan]

For me personally I don't care who we bomb or why...
I don't have the "INTEL" so I assume the best - including this most recent case

What bothers me
is that we "don't have the money" to care for our own citizens
or care for our own children

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

Is Iran really the greatest threat we face? And who's actually benefiting from this? And why are we continuing to ignore the decline of our own country in favor of jumping into another quagmire from which there is no obvious exit? By the way, if we're still in Afghanistan, 19 years, sad years, later, what makes us think there's a quick way out of Iran?"

Before we enter into a single new war, there's a criterion that ought to be met: Our leaders should explain to us how that conflict will make the United States richer and more secure. There are an awful lot of bad people in this world, we can't kill them all. It's not our job. Instead, our government exists to defend and promote the interests of American citizens, period, that's why we have a government. So has the killing of Soleimani done that? Maybe. No one in Washington has explained how. Instead, like Ben Sasse, they're telling us what an awful person he was. He clearly was. So? That's irrelevant.

[houndawg]

I mentioned before I was not sure what to think about this strike.. I can envision several scenarios (none involve a full on war)

David Petraeus makes some very good points about Iran’s position here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/pe ... eterrence/

For sure though- they really must be wondering about us in Teheran right now. If taking out their Yamamoto is our opening shot then they have to be anxious about what we’ll do next. The “they only respect one thing” doctrine is going to get a good test

As somebody with a foreign service gig could you lay out why it is we're on Saudi Arabia's side against Iran? Getting along with Iran seems like it would have more benefits to the US than Saudi Arabia, just from looking at a map.

The sample wasn't representative of course but back in engineering school I found the Iranian engineering students much more outgoing than the Saudis, they had a better command of English and didn't have to hide to drink.

[houndawg]

For me personally I don't care who we bomb or why...
I don't have the "INTEL" so I assume the best - including this most recent case

What bothers me
is that we "don't have the money" to care for our own citizens
or care for our own children

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

Is Iran really the greatest threat we face? And who's actually benefiting from this? And why are we continuing to ignore the decline of our own country in favor of jumping into another quagmire from which there is no obvious exit? By the way, if we're still in Afghanistan, 19 years, sad years, later, what makes us think there's a quick way out of Iran?"

Before we enter into a single new war, there's a criterion that ought to be met: Our leaders should explain to us how that conflict will make the United States richer and more secure. There are an awful lot of bad people in this world, we can't kill them all. It's not our job. Instead, our government exists to defend and promote the interests of American citizens, period, that's why we have a government. So has the killing of Soleimani done that? Maybe. No one in Washington has explained how. Instead, like Ben Sasse, they're telling us what an awful person he was. He clearly was. So? That's irrelevant.

Because the kids of the people that profit from our wars don't have to serve in them.

[Chizzang]

For me personally I don't care who we bomb or why...
I don't have the "INTEL" so I assume the best - including this most recent case

What bothers me
is that we "don't have the money" to care for our own citizens
or care for our own children

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

Is Iran really the greatest threat we face? And who's actually benefiting from this? And why are we continuing to ignore the decline of our own country in favor of jumping into another quagmire from which there is no obvious exit? By the way, if we're still in Afghanistan, 19 years, sad years, later, what makes us think there's a quick way out of Iran?"

Before we enter into a single new war, there's a criterion that ought to be met: Our leaders should explain to us how that conflict will make the United States richer and more secure. There are an awful lot of bad people in this world, we can't kill them all. It's not our job. Instead, our government exists to defend and promote the interests of American citizens, period, that's why we have a government. So has the killing of Soleimani done that? Maybe. No one in Washington has explained how. Instead, like Ben Sasse, they're telling us what an awful person he was. He clearly was. So? That's irrelevant.

I agree with about 40% of Tuckers stuff
But this is really where he and I intersect nicely - that is a perfectly worded series of observations
and I'm glad a highly respected Conservative is making those observations

because coming from a Liberal it would be dismissed as sour grapes

[AZGrizFan]

For me personally I don't care who we bomb or why...
I don't have the "INTEL" so I assume the best - including this most recent case

What bothers me
is that we "don't have the money" to care for our own citizens
or care for our own children

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

Is Iran really the greatest threat we face? And who's actually benefiting from this? And why are we continuing to ignore the decline of our own country in favor of jumping into another quagmire from which there is no obvious exit? By the way, if we're still in Afghanistan, 19 years, sad years, later, what makes us think there's a quick way out of Iran?"

Before we enter into a single new war, there's a criterion that ought to be met: Our leaders should explain to us how that conflict will make the United States richer and more secure. There are an awful lot of bad people in this world, we can't kill them all. It's not our job. Instead, our government exists to defend and promote the interests of American citizens, period, that's why we have a government. So has the killing of Soleimani done that? Maybe. No one in Washington has explained how. Instead, like Ben Sasse, they're telling us what an awful person he was. He clearly was. So? That's irrelevant.

Not often I agree with Carlson, but he’s spot on in this instance.

[kalm]

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

I agree with about 40% of Tuckers stuff
But this is really where he and I intersect nicely - that is a perfectly worded series of observations
and I'm glad a highly respected Conservative is making those observations

because coming from a Liberal it would be dismissed as sour grapes

Except the part about the government existing to serve the interests of the people.

[Pwns]

Enjoying the "Tucker is against war in the middle east 'cause he's soooo racist" takes on Twatter.

[Chizzang]

Enjoying the "Tucker is against war in the middle east 'cause he's soooo racist" takes on Twatter.

I'm enjoying a certified Conservative not licking Trumps balls



Rare as unicorns

[∞∞∞]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

[Chizzang]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

That's not how this works... its not how any of this works

[∞∞∞]

That's not how this works... its not how any of this works

Of course, and it's unfortunate. I can only hope though.

[93henfan]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

So you would just look the other way when US citizens are killed and a US embassy is attacked by order of Iran.

Noted.

You make a good point on SA and Israel, but generally speaking, they don't burn our flag, call us the Great Satan, and toast our death and destruction. They're terrific strategic allies.

[∞∞∞]

So you would just look the other way when US citizens are killed and a US embassy is attacked by order of Iran.

Noted.

It would never get to the point where I'd throw away a strong nuclear deal and sanction Iran, giving them a reason to want us out of their sphere of influence. I'd have shown their people the economic benefits of the US (and other Western economies) if they work with us, and if they wanted to throw away the temporary alliance after ten years for continuing their nuclear ambitions, then sanctions would be considered again.

And yes, even if they killed a US citizen, military action should be avoided at all costs. I'd much rather bring them to the table and negotiate how both nations can move forward and perhaps even become allies without further blood being shed.

[93henfan]

Trump is being fully transparent. He retaliated to the death of an American and the attack on the US embassy with the killing of the person responsible for it.

We're all square.

Now he is letting Iran know that if they want to provoke again, 52 targets are on the list next (coincidentally, 52 was the number of US hostages Iran took in 1979 ). He's playing it perfectly. He holds the cards. He's made it clear he does not want war. Iran is a piss-ant country, and they can either chill or take their medicine.

The US has a Commander in Chief who isn't going to appease and bend over any more.

https://apnews.com/75944e42ccc66ac08ee5122e080d7f33

[Chizzang]

Trump is being fully transparent. He retaliated to the death of an American and the attack on the US embassy with the killing of the person responsible for it.

We're all square.

Now he is letting Iran know that if they want to provoke again, 52 targets are on the list next (coincidentally, 52 was the number of US hostages Iran took in 1979 ). He's playing it perfectly. He holds the cards. He's made it clear he does not want war. Iran is a piss-ant country, and they can either chill or take their medicine.

The US has a Commander in Chief who isn't going to appease and bend over any more.

https://apnews.com/75944e42ccc66ac08ee5122e080d7f33

Take a deep breath there roger ram-jet

[93henfan]

Take a deep breath there roger ram-jet

That's all you can come up with? I guess I nailed it then. Thanks.

[Chizzang]

Take a deep breath there roger ram-jet

That's all you can come up with? I guess I nailed it then. Thanks.

Ya... you nailed it all right

[HI54UNI]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

They can put Trump on trial right after they finish up Obama's trial for killing US Citizens without due process.

[CID1990]

I mentioned before I was not sure what to think about this strike.. I can envision several scenarios (none involve a full on war)

David Petraeus makes some very good points about Iran’s position here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/pe ... eterrence/

For sure though- they really must be wondering about us in Teheran right now. If taking out their Yamamoto is our opening shot then they have to be anxious about what we’ll do next. The “they only respect one thing” doctrine is going to get a good test

As somebody with a foreign service gig could you lay out why it is we're on Saudi Arabia's side against Iran? Getting along with Iran seems like it would have more benefits to the US than Saudi Arabia, just from looking at a map.

The sample wasn't representative of course but back in engineering school I found the Iranian engineering students much more outgoing than the Saudis, they had a better command of English and didn't have to hide to drink.

Inertia, mostly.

I like Persians much more than Arabs as well.

The Iran-Saudi conflict is just a small part of the larger Sunni-Shia civil war that has been going on since the death of the Imam Ali

One way to extricate ourselves from the mess would be energy independence but we would need to be ready to see oil traded in something other than dollars... the Saudis could make that happen in conjunction with China if they really wanted to....

In fact, seeing our support of the Saudis as simply a foil against Iran is shortsighted- it is the surface appearance of the thing. Our support of Saudi Arabia runs way back to a time when we were also friendly with Iran. Support for Saudi Arabia is one small piece of the larger puzzle of our continual push against the non-Western, undemocratic opposition... whoever that may be at the time

[CID1990]

So you would just look the other way when US citizens are killed and a US embassy is attacked by order of Iran.

Noted.

It would never get to the point where I'd throw away a strong nuclear deal and sanction Iran, giving them a reason to want us out of their sphere of influence. I'd have shown their people the economic benefits of the US (and other Western economies) if they work with us, and if they wanted to throw away the temporary alliance after ten years for continuing their nuclear ambitions, then sanctions would be considered again.

And yes, even if they killed a US citizen, military action should be avoided at all costs. I'd much rather bring them to the table and negotiate how both nations can move forward and perhaps even become allies without further blood being shed.

I sure hope you’re a good engineer.

[CID1990]

All fair questions, and sort of parallels what Tucker Carlson laid out on his show last night:

I agree with about 40% of Tuckers stuff
But this is really where he and I intersect nicely - that is a perfectly worded series of observations
and I'm glad a highly respected Conservative is making those observations

because coming from a Liberal it would be dismissed as sour grapes

Tucker is right on all of this - Iran is not an existential threat to us.

Neither is North Korea, or Iraq, or Russia

So let’s have Ol President Cheeto pull our forces out of Asia and Europe and see who squeals about it

(It will be the same ones who complained about withdrawing from Syria)

As long as we are there, they’ll find ways to attack us and then we’ll have to correctly respond. Just as Russia will find ways to destabilize NATO aspirants, and just as Kim will beat his drum and play with bottle rockets

So if you are full-on behind us not antagonizing countries that are not a threat to us then you’ll agree to all of the above ^^^^^^

[Ivytalk]

Iran will never be our “friend.” Those people have never forgotten 1953. Americans with any sense of history (all 1% of them) forget that it took TWO coups to remove Mossadegh from power. That said, if we leave them to their own devices, maybe they’ll change regimes on their own, sooner or later.

As for Iraq, it’s always been a failed state. I can remember seeing movie newsreels ( ) in about 1962 about the exploits of some dude named al-Karim Qasim (kind of an Omar Sharif- looking guy) who ended up getting shot, and the American public pretty much ignored the turmoil at the time. We were no worse off, and we sent no troops in.

[Baldy]

So you would just look the other way when US citizens are killed and a US embassy is attacked by order of Iran.

Noted.

It would never get to the point where I'd throw away a strong nuclear deal and sanction Iran, giving them a reason to want us out of their sphere of influence. I'd have shown their people the economic benefits of the US (and other Western economies) if they work with us, and if they wanted to throw away the temporary alliance after ten years for continuing their nuclear ambitions, then sanctions would be considered again.

And yes, even if they killed a US citizen, military action should be avoided at all costs. I'd much rather bring them to the table and negotiate how both nations can move forward and perhaps even become allies without further blood being shed.

"Strong nuclear deal"..."killed a US citizen"

[Baldy]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

Solimani just killed 1500 Iranian protestors, not to mention countless Syrians and Iraqis. His death will unite them more than anything.

Most of the "unrest" is from the autocratic Leftists in the press and on social media...people like you.

[Ivytalk]

Tucker is right on all of this

Tucker is the biggest punk-ass on Fox, and that includes Hannity