The Iran War

[kalm]

As somebody with a foreign service gig could you lay out why it is we're on Saudi Arabia's side against Iran? Getting along with Iran seems like it would have more benefits to the US than Saudi Arabia, just from looking at a map.

The sample wasn't representative of course but back in engineering school I found the Iranian engineering students much more outgoing than the Saudis, they had a better command of English and didn't have to hide to drink.

Inertia, mostly.

I like Persians much more than Arabs as well.

The Iran-Saudi conflict is just a small part of the larger Sunni-Shia civil war that has been going on since the death of the Imam Ali

One way to extricate ourselves from the mess would be energy independence but we would need to be ready to see oil traded in something other than dollars... the Saudis could make that happen in conjunction with China if they really wanted to....

In fact, seeing our support of the Saudis as simply a foil against Iran is shortsighted- it is the surface appearance of the thing. Our support of Saudi Arabia runs way back to a time when we were also friendly with Iran. Support for Saudi Arabia is one small piece of the larger puzzle of our continual push against the non-Western, undemocratic opposition... whoever that may be at the time

Good post.

Our military buildup and projection benefitted Europe and Japan for decades. They got to re-industrialize as we became the worlds lone super power. It would seem at this point with our domestic resources, world wide market stability and oil supplies to those western democracies is the only justification for staying involved.

[Ibanez]

I'm confused. A couple years ago we were in WW3 with North Korea. So shouldn't this Iran thing be WW4?

A buddy of mine calculated the number of world wars for his Ph.d. If I recall he argued that there have been approx. 20. If you’re counting from WW1, we are currently engaged in WW4 with the Cold War being WW3 and the GWOT being 4.


So maybe 5?


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[Col Hogan]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

How would you show them “how our economy could help them? The Islamic government tightly controls what information comes in via the internet...if an American is caught with prohibited documents in the country, they are tried for being a spy...

While not as tight as North Korea, Iran is getting closer to being a hermit nation...

Honest question...how would we show the government this? Remember, the Iranian people were, and still remain, western friendly...it’s the government that’s regressive...

[CID1990]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

How would you show them “how our economy could help them? The Islamic government tightly controls what information comes in via the internet...if an American is caught with prohibited documents in the country, they are tried for being a spy...

While not as tight as North Korea, Iran is getting closer to being a hermit nation...

Honest question...how would we show the government this? Remember, the Iranian people were, and still remain, western friendly...it’s the government that’s regressive...

There you go asking for details about the fur around the unicorn’s horn


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[SDHornet]

If you want a few laughs check this out

https://twitter.com/Qasam_Soleimani

[SDHornet]

Good job Fiver, for not wanting to debate the substance.

According to Pence now, Soleimani was a part of the 9/11 conspiracy. Quick! Go justify the threat after the fact!

What's the point of debating? When Obama was doing it all was good. Now Trump is doing it and the role is reversed. Members of both parties were upset when Trump pulled troops out of Syria where there was no declaration of war. Now he offs a terrorist and they are all clutching their pearls.

188 Democrats voted against a provision promoted by Tulsi Gabbard in the recent defense bill that would have limited Trump's authority to use military force in Yemen or Iran. So they can all STFU.

Spot on.

[SDHornet]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

How would you show them “how our economy could help them? The Islamic government tightly controls what information comes in via the internet...if an American is caught with prohibited documents in the country, they are tried for being a spy...

While not as tight as North Korea, Iran is getting closer to being a hermit nation...

Honest question...how would we show the government this? Remember, the Iranian people were, and still remain, western friendly...it’s the government that’s regressive...

I think it is more funny that he put his marxism to the side for a bit to claim the touting of our economic system will help them.

The irony in his post is very entertaining.

[SDHornet]

Trump is being fully transparent. He retaliated to the death of an American and the attack on the US embassy with the killing of the person responsible for it.

We're all square.

Now he is letting Iran know that if they want to provoke again, 52 targets are on the list next (coincidentally, 52 was the number of US hostages Iran took in 1979 ). He's playing it perfectly. He holds the cards. He's made it clear he does not want war. Iran is a piss-ant country, and they can either chill or take their medicine.

The US has a Commander in Chief who isn't going to appease and bend over any more.

https://apnews.com/75944e42ccc66ac08ee5122e080d7f33

This is my take as well. Would prefer to not have any of our troops and resources in any of these shithole countries, but we do, so may as well do what needs to be done.

Oh and also loving the leftist meltdown over a dude in charge of state sponsored terrorist activities getting skull fucked.

[CID1990]

How would you show them “how our economy could help them? The Islamic government tightly controls what information comes in via the internet...if an American is caught with prohibited documents in the country, they are tried for being a spy...

While not as tight as North Korea, Iran is getting closer to being a hermit nation...

Honest question...how would we show the government this? Remember, the Iranian people were, and still remain, western friendly...it’s the government that’s regressive...

I think it is more funny that he put his marxism to the side for a bit to claim the touting of our economic system will help them.

The irony in his post is very entertaining.

You have to be quite flexible to make some dreams work

(inside your head, anyways)


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[Ibanez]

Hopefully Trump and the many members of the military industrial complex are convicted of war crimes for this provocation, which included killing innocent civilians. Every power in the region is trying to exert their influence in the area, but Saudi Arabia and Israel are far worse in what they've done to people (including killing Americans) and yet we continue to suck both them off.

I'm no fan of the Iranian govt, and I'm sure the US will damage their military structure beyond belief if they respond, but I can't blame them if they did. Instead of building an alliance with Iran, pausing their nuclear ambitions, and showing them how our economy could help them...we've squandered an opportunity to make a friend and worse, actually strengthened an enemy. And now we've given their shitty government, who was wrestling against national unrest, a good reason to unite their people and come out even stronger.

Your naiveté is adorable.

It's getting tiresome, but adorable nonetheless.

[Ibanez]

So you would just look the other way when US citizens are killed and a US embassy is attacked by order of Iran.

Noted.

It would never get to the point where I'd throw away a strong nuclear deal and sanction Iran, giving them a reason to want us out of their sphere of influence. I'd have shown their people the economic benefits of the US (and other Western economies) if they work with us, and if they wanted to throw away the temporary alliance after ten years for continuing their nuclear ambitions, then sanctions would be considered again.

And yes, even if they killed a US citizen, military action should be avoided at all costs. I'd much rather bring them to the table and negotiate how both nations can move forward and perhaps even become allies without further blood being shed.

For all of that to happen, you have to reeducate an entire population that has been taught that we're the Great Satan. Their religious leaders drive home that point every chance they get. You'd have to change hearts and minds. In the Middle East. That won't happen.

I agree that military action is the last resort but we have to face certain realities. Iran is never going to be our buddy.

[89Hen]

the leftists protest in DC...

Are these people really as dumb as they pass themselves off to be?

I'm going to go ahead and assume that was a rhetorical question.

[93henfan]

the leftists protest in DC...

Are these people really as dumb as they pass themselves off to be?

I'm going to go ahead and assume that was a rhetorical question.

You are correct, sir.

[CID1990]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... soleimani/

“There are many Iranian voices who think Soleimani was a war criminal, but Western journalists rarely reach out to them. Ironically, the Western media is more skeptical of such state-organized events in other countries, such as Russia or North Korea, but seems to leave its critical sense at the border when it comes to the Islamic Republic.”


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[Ivytalk]

Trump threatening to hit 52 “Iranian cultural sites”? I didn’t know there were so many. For that matter, I didn’t think the Persians had any culture at all, post-Zoroaster.

[CID1990]

Trump threatening to hit 52 “Iranian cultural sites”? I didn’t know there were so many. For that matter, I didn’t think the Persians had any culture at all, post-Zoroaster.

Dude

If we ever make nice with Iran I’ll be on a plane there the next damn day - the place is a huge piece of the ancient Silk Road

Trump is a real dickpiece. No way we target cultural sites


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[Chizzang]

Trump threatening to hit 52 “Iranian cultural sites”? I didn’t know there were so many. For that matter, I didn’t think the Persians had any culture at all, post-Zoroaster.

Dude

If we ever make nice with Iran I’ll be on a plane there the next damn day - the place is a huge piece of the ancient Silk Road

This ^ a thousand times this
I'll be in the seat right behind you in first class

Persian women are spectacular - some of the greatest minds and faces and hips
1) mind / 2) face / 3) hips



in that order...
I knew a Persian chick at the old H and she mesmerized me with her intellect
and her face was like living art... I was bedazzled

[houndawg]

Trump is being fully transparent. He retaliated to the death of an American and the attack on the US embassy with the killing of the person responsible for it.

We're all square.

Now he is letting Iran know that if they want to provoke again, 52 targets are on the list next (coincidentally, 52 was the number of US hostages Iran took in 1979 ). He's playing it perfectly. He holds the cards. He's made it clear he does not want war. Iran is a piss-ant country, and they can either chill or take their medicine.

The US has a Commander in Chief who isn't going to appease and bend over any more.

https://apnews.com/75944e42ccc66ac08ee5122e080d7f33

He's already sucked Putin off in public at Helsinki.

[JohnStOnge]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... soleimani/

“There are many Iranian voices who think Soleimani was a war criminal, but Western journalists rarely reach out to them. Ironically, the Western media is more skeptical of such state-organized events in other countries, such as Russia or North Korea, but seems to leave its critical sense at the border when it comes to the Islamic Republic.”


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I can't read the article because WAPO wants me to buy a subscription in order to read it. But I think I know what she's getting at. Hard to tell, I think. I think it's true that many Iranians didn't like the guy. But I don't know that what was just done didn't help the Iranian regime and push support the other way.

[AZGrizFan]

This ^ a thousand times this
I'll be in the seat right behind you in first class

Persian women are spectacular - some of the greatest minds and faces and hips
1) mind / 2) face / 3) hips



in that order...
I knew a Persian chick at the old H and she mesmerized me with her intellect
and her face was like living art... I was bedazzled

These two....yowza.

[houndawg]

[houndawg]

Oh and also loving the leftist meltdown over a dude in charge of state sponsored terrorist activities getting skull fucked.

Did Fox News tell you that "lefties" are melting down over this?

I just wish that Trump would send a rocket aimed at the Saudis. They deserve it more than anyone.

And lose that monthly cash infusion from renting an entire floor of trump tower to them?

[CID1990]

Dude

If we ever make nice with Iran I’ll be on a plane there the next damn day - the place is a huge piece of the ancient Silk Road

This ^ a thousand times this
I'll be in the seat right behind you in first class

Persian women are spectacular - some of the greatest minds and faces and hips
1) mind / 2) face / 3) hips



in that order...
I knew a Persian chick at the old H and she mesmerized me with her intellect
and her face was like living art... I was bedazzled

I got news for ya buddy

If you’re sitting directly behind me you’ll definitely be in coach

on SEIYGE Airlines

(Smoke Em If Ya Got Em)


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[CID1990]

BTW a decent substitute for visiting Iran (basically Iran-lite) is Azerbaijan. If a job there ever pops up while I’m bidding it will be on my list


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[93henfan]

Trump is being fully transparent. He retaliated to the death of an American and the attack on the US embassy with the killing of the person responsible for it.

We're all square.

Now he is letting Iran know that if they want to provoke again, 52 targets are on the list next (coincidentally, 52 was the number of US hostages Iran took in 1979 ). He's playing it perfectly. He holds the cards. He's made it clear he does not want war. Iran is a piss-ant country, and they can either chill or take their medicine.

The US has a Commander in Chief who isn't going to appease and bend over any more.

https://apnews.com/75944e42ccc66ac08ee5122e080d7f33

He's already sucked Putin off in public at Helsinki.

I'm not disputing that, but it's an entirely different discussion. I think we both suspect that Putin holds leverage over Trump (be it future business opportunities or something more sinister/embarrassing).

But I bet deep down inside, Putin only sees Iran as somebody to sell weapons to, somebody to get some oil from, and somebody to use as a tool for instigation of the west, as needed. Otherwise, they're just mud people to Russia, like the Saudis are to us.

My post was simply discussing Trump, Pompeo, and Esper's presentation of the current situation with Iran. I think they're really nailing it and staying ahead of their domestic opponents' and Iran's next move. They seem to have their shit together on this one. I don't always say that about them.