2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

[UNI88]

Show me a truly successful socialist nation without diverting to Nordic countries that use the power of capitalism to provide a social safety net.

Bernie is a socialist, he wants state control of the means of production because he's arrogant enough to think that he and people like him can do a better job than the market. He's a lot more Maduro than Löfven or Frederiksen. So I don't like or respect him and I think he would be a disaster as President. I do think the checks and balances put in place by our visionary founders would keep him in check and don't believe that his election would lead to armageddon.

Well that’s our issue. Show me where Bernie has indicated he wants state control of production/100% socialism. He seems to be advocating for things that have worked here and/or in other mixed economies like socialized health insurance, subsidized education, and higher taxes on wealth. You had all three things going on at least in California during the Eisenhower administration and yet they somehow managed to avoid becoming Cuba.

I’m not expecting you to like or respect him, just some rational explanations for your accusations. I’m listening.

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

[kalm]

Well that’s our issue. Show me where Bernie has indicated he wants state control of production/100% socialism. He seems to be advocating for things that have worked here and/or in other mixed economies like socialized health insurance, subsidized education, and higher taxes on wealth. You had all three things going on at least in California during the Eisenhower administration and yet they somehow managed to avoid becoming Cuba.

I’m not expecting you to like or respect him, just some rational explanations for your accusations. I’m listening.

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

Fair enough.

[SDHornet]

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

Fair enough.

To be fair to Bernie, he came out and owned that taxes will be increased to cover his plans. His problem is that won't play well to the gen pop, especially if this economy holds up...

...of course the DNC won't let him win the nomination anyways so not sure why it is even worthwhile talking about it. Meh.

[CID1990]

Fair enough.

To be fair to Bernie, he came out and owned that taxes will be increased to cover his plans. His problem is that won't play well to the gen pop, especially if this economy holds up...

...of course the DNC won't let him win the nomination anyways so not sure why it is even worthwhile talking about it. Meh.

That’s true about Bernie - he isn’t a bullshitter. He’s a true believer and he’s missing the one thing that has carried all the other historical socialists into power - the ability to lie

..and then once in power, the willingness to dispose of your opponents.


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[houndawg]

I’m not very concerned about small tweaks but the people who advocate for socialism-lite are the same people who are never satisfied with anything. We aren’t in any danger of a radical move to socialist systems but incrementalism does concern me - at least hypothetically.

I’ll be dead and gone before we see someone like Bernie win a national election though, so I see most of it as hot air to garner the fringe votes


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You better get your affairs in order pronto....

[houndawg]

Well that’s our issue. Show me where Bernie has indicated he wants state control of production/100% socialism. He seems to be advocating for things that have worked here and/or in other mixed economies like socialized health insurance, subsidized education, and higher taxes on wealth. You had all three things going on at least in California during the Eisenhower administration and yet they somehow managed to avoid becoming Cuba.

I’m not expecting you to like or respect him, just some rational explanations for your accusations. I’m listening.

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

You're over-reacting, the guy has actually been very consistent for a long time whether you like what he says or not.

[Winterborn]

Well that’s our issue. Show me where Bernie has indicated he wants state control of production/100% socialism. He seems to be advocating for things that have worked here and/or in other mixed economies like socialized health insurance, subsidized education, and higher taxes on wealth. You had all three things going on at least in California during the Eisenhower administration and yet they somehow managed to avoid becoming Cuba.

I’m not expecting you to like or respect him, just some rational explanations for your accusations. I’m listening.

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

88 I think you right on the money in your assessment (especially the arrogant/hubristic attitude) and that is exactly the same feeling I got when doing research into Bernie's past. He has been good at not coming right out and saying those things but based on his voting and comments made over the years (especially in fundraising speeches), he truly believes that the Government control is the best way forward but is just not that vocal about it.

[Winterborn]

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

You're over-reacting, the guy has actually been very consistent for a long time whether you like what he says or not.

I would agree that he has been consistent but not on the overreacting point. You read enough personal writings and listen to enough speeches by a person and you get a feel for ones character and thought process they follow and you can start to pickup more of the meaning behind a persons words then just what they are saying.

[kalm]

You're over-reacting, the guy has actually been very consistent for a long time whether you like what he says or not.

I would agree that he has been consistent but not on the overreacting point. You read enough personal writings and listen to enough speeches by a person and you get a feel for ones character and thought process they follow and you can start to pickup more of the meaning behind a persons words then just what they are saying.

I’m listening and respect both you and ‘88. The biggest selling point against socialist democrats whether their intents are pure or not is the law of unintended consequences. We see that with regulation all the time...especially if you run a business. That’s part of the reason why I’m not a Democrat. But I would like some concrete examples rather than just gut instincts and feels.

[Winterborn]

I would agree that he has been consistent but not on the overreacting point. You read enough personal writings and listen to enough speeches by a person and you get a feel for ones character and thought process they follow and you can start to pickup more of the meaning behind a persons words then just what they are saying.

I’m listening and respect both you and ‘88. The biggest selling point against socialist democrats whether their intents are pure or not is the law of unintended consequences. We see that with regulation all the time...especially if you run a business. That’s part of the reason why I’m not a Democrat. But I would like some concrete examples rather than just gut instincts and feels.

You don't know how hard it is for me as an engineer to tell somebody something based on "feels" and not facts. But Bernie has been very good at not saying much of anything when being questioned and outside of his voting (which is usually further left of the average of his peers (Democrats)) he comes across further right then he actually is. I know when I did my research into his background (this was a couple of years ago) I learned the most from his campaign speeches and what private speeches at his fundraising events that I could find (he occasionally goes a bit off script). Nothing that I can point to you that is concrete, but one thing I can tell you is to look at is his entire voting record is available and to see what bills he has sponsored/co-sponsored/voted on and his comments that he made on the floor about those bills.

Every House and Senate bill that comes up for vote is tracked and available on their respective websites for research. I follow the same pattern for every politician that I do research that is running whether they are at the local or state or federal level. I see how they vote and the pattern of their voting and cross reference the timing of those bills with anything they may have said about those bills.

[AZGrizFan]

Bernie hasn't come right out and proposed those things but my gut tells me that's his real objective. He knows they've all failed but he's arrogant enough to think he can make it work. I can't point to anything specific but my instinct is based on Bernie's statements, writing, actions and body language. I trust my gut.

Fair enough.

Bernie loves him some AOC. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.

[kalm]

Fair enough.

Bernie loves him some AOC. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

[AZGrizFan]

Bernie loves him some AOC. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

She's dumber than a box of rocks. Her only good policy position would be face down, ass up.

[UNI88]

Bernie loves him some AOC. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

She's the Donk Trump - a boisterous, ignorant buffoon.

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[CAA Flagship]

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

She's dumber than a box of rocks. Her only good policy position would be face down, ass up.

[89Hen]

Bernie loves him some AOC. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

Yeah

[kalm]

So do I, if for nothing more than the fact she punches back and has left many a quivering conk vag in her wake.

She's dumber than a box of rocks. Her only good policy position would be face down, ass up.

Perhaps...but it’s always fun watching Trump supporters call out someone’s intelligence.

[HI54UNI]

Prediction on how the DNC is going to screw Bernie. Nancy will ship the articles over to the Senate in the next week or so. She has to time it so Cocaine Mitch will start the trial shortly before the caucuses so Bernie can't be in campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire. Warren is already flaming out but screwing her over is an added bonus for the DNC.

[AZGrizFan]

She's dumber than a box of rocks. Her only good policy position would be face down, ass up.

Perhaps...but it’s always fun watching Trump supporters call out someone’s intelligence.

Has nothing to do with whether someone is a Trump supporter or not. She's dumber than a box of rocks, and that statement stands all on its own.

[kalm]

Prediction on how the DNC is going to screw Bernie. Nancy will ship the articles over to the Senate in the next week or so. She has to time it so Cocaine Mitch will start the trial shortly before the caucuses so Bernie can't be in campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire. Warren is already flaming out but screwing her over is an added bonus for the DNC.

This was brought a couple of months ago and is by no means a stretch.

[UNI88]

Perhaps...but it’s always fun watching Trump supporters call out someone’s intelligence.

Has nothing to do with whether someone is a Trump supporter or not. She's dumber than a box of rocks, and that statement stands all on its own.

What did she study in college?
What does she have almost no understanding of?

[AZGrizFan]

Has nothing to do with whether someone is a Trump supporter or not. She's dumber than a box of rocks, and that statement stands all on its own.

What did she study in college?
What does she have almost no understanding of?

Exactly.

[kalm]

What did she study in college?
What does she have almost no understanding of?

Exactly.

What did Alan Greenspan study in college?
What did he have almost non understanding of?

[AZGrizFan]

Exactly.

What did Alan Greenspan study in college?
What did he have almost non understanding of?

Yeah, now THERE's a accurate comparison...

[kalm]

What did Alan Greenspan study in college?
What did he have almost non understanding of?

Yeah, now THERE's a accurate comparison...

Yet they are both proponents of MMT and only one of them has nearly destroyed the world wide economy through his economic beliefs.

So here we are.