Article II

[JohnStOnge]

Guys. Back to the topic at hand: We have allowed the Presidency too much power and too little accountability. The President has more power than the Constitution gave him or her and less accountability than the Constitution gave him or her now. We need to put the Presidency back into the box it belongs in.

Why now? Why not 3 years ago? Or 5? Or 10? You’ve been on this board 10 years, and it’s the first time this article has ever been a concern for you?

I may not have ever specifically cited Article II, but I have been very consistent over many years in saying that we make to much of the Presidency. Stuff like saying that we have to show the office respect when the Person in the office is not deserving of respect. Stuff like saying that we act like the President is a ruler when the President is just the Chief Executive of the Executive Branch who has the job of implementing the will of Congress. This is not new for me at all. It has just come to the forefront at this time because we have a President with a dictatorial attitude who is supported by a cult that includes 40 to 45% of the population along with an Attorney General who has a very dangerous philosophy with respect to Executive Branch power.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, I also think the idea of "Executive Privilege" that allows the President to with hold information from Congress when Congress is trying to conduct an investigation of the Executive Branch is a bunch of crap. I don't think that's in the Constitution at all. I think that Congress ought to tell the Executive Branch, every time, that if they with hold information the President will be impeached and removed from office. They should put controls in place to protect national security but this crap of saying the President can use that to hide information is nonsense. And I have thought that for decades.

[AZGrizFan]

Why now? Why not 3 years ago? Or 5? Or 10? You’ve been on this board 10 years, and it’s the first time this article has ever been a concern for you?

I may not have ever specifically cited Article II, but I have been very consistent over many years in saying that we make to much of the Presidency. Stuff like saying that we have to show the office respect when the Person in the office is not deserving of respect. Stuff like saying that we act like the President is a ruler when the President is just the Chief Executive of the Executive Branch who has the job of implementing the will of Congress. This is not new for me at all. It has just come to the forefront at this time because we have a President with a dictatorial attitude who is supported by a cult that includes 40 to 45% of the population along with an Attorney General who has a very dangerous philosophy with respect to Executive Branch power.

There it is.

[Col Hogan]

That appears to be the case.

And for good reason as has been proven historically and is certainly being proven today.



https://www.thomhartmann.com/articles/2 ... personhood

While Jefferson was concerned with commercial monopolies he was just as concerned with out-of-control government.

"Such a bill protecting natural persons from out-of-control governments or commercial monopolies shouldn’t just be limited to America"

Trip's answer to commercial monopolies is a bigger and eventually out-of-control government.

Main point is that early Americans including many of the founding fathers feared corporate influence on individual rights. People (aka. government) have always been involved in protecting themselves, and that's how it should be.

You don't like corporate personhood, Trip is advocating for government personhood. The government should represent people but it is not people. It should be involved in providing regulations to protect people from monopolies and other threats (the EPA and OSHA are good examples) but we should be mindful of the threat of government itself. Excessive bureaucracy, regulations or taxation are just as bad as none.

We have more than enough government and in reality, need to pare it down and focus it on what is important not make it bigger and more byzantine.

I don't disagree with your concerns about corporate influence but I am more concerned about excessive government. I have more faith in the impartiality of a truly competitive market than I do in any government much less Trip's socialist government that will focus on equal outcomes (I'm on record as being all for equal opportunities), stifle ingenuity and create a class of government elite that is worse than today's corporate elite.

Well stated...Having just spent a load of time in the civil service world of DC, I was painfully aware of the “government elite” and their opinion of average Americans...

[CID1990]

Why now? Why not 3 years ago? Or 5? Or 10? You’ve been on this board 10 years, and it’s the first time this article has ever been a concern for you?

I may not have ever specifically cited Article II, but I have been very consistent over many years in saying that we make to much of the Presidency. Stuff like saying that we have to show the office respect when the Person in the office is not deserving of respect. Stuff like saying that we act like the President is a ruler when the President is just the Chief Executive of the Executive Branch who has the job of implementing the will of Congress. This is not new for me at all. It has just come to the forefront at this time because we have a President with a dictatorial attitude who is supported by a cult that includes 40 to 45% of the population along with an Attorney General who has a very dangerous philosophy with respect to Executive Branch power.

Incorrect

Trump has wielded the pen and the phone no differently than many of his predecessors

I agree that the executive branch has assumed too much power from Congress .... I’m also glad that you are afraid of what Trump might do with that power

But none of your fellow travelers are... they are mostly shallow on this point and would preserve that power for a Bernie Sanders or worse

But let’s not pretend that Trump’s executive excesses are outliers by any stretch of the imagination

[kalm]

While Jefferson was concerned with commercial monopolies he was just as concerned with out-of-control government.

"Such a bill protecting natural persons from out-of-control governments or commercial monopolies shouldn’t just be limited to America"

Trip's answer to commercial monopolies is a bigger and eventually out-of-control government.



You don't like corporate personhood, Trip is advocating for government personhood. The government should represent people but it is not people. It should be involved in providing regulations to protect people from monopolies and other threats (the EPA and OSHA are good examples) but we should be mindful of the threat of government itself. Excessive bureaucracy, regulations or taxation are just as bad as none.

We have more than enough government and in reality, need to pare it down and focus it on what is important not make it bigger and more byzantine.

I don't disagree with your concerns about corporate influence but I am more concerned about excessive government. I have more faith in the impartiality of a truly competitive market than I do in any government much less Trip's socialist government that will focus on equal outcomes (I'm on record as being all for equal opportunities), stifle ingenuity and create a class of government elite that is worse than today's corporate elite.

Well stated...Having just spent a load of time in the civil service world of DC, I was painfully aware of the “government elite” and their opinion of average Americans...

[CID1990]

Well stated...Having just spent a load of time in the civil service world of DC, I was painfully aware of the “government elite” and their opinion of average Americans...

They sometimes act without integrity and outside their authority also


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[kalm]

They sometimes act without integrity and outside their authority also


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Agree with that as well. It’s gotta be truly rough for you some days.

[CID1990]

They sometimes act without integrity and outside their authority also


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Agree with that as well. It’s gotta be truly rough for you some days.

There’s a term for it that Reek likes to roll his eyes at


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[GannonFan]

Pastor threatens to massacre his parish.

https://deadstate.org/christian-pastor- ... er-church/

Where's that covered in Article II?

[SDHornet]

Guys. Back to the topic at hand: We have allowed the Presidency too much power and too little accountability. The President has more power than the Constitution gave him or her and less accountability than the Constitution gave him or her now. We need to put the Presidency back into the box it belongs in.

Why now? Why not 3 years ago? Or 5? Or 10? You’ve been on this board 10 years, and it’s the first time this article has ever been a concern for you?

Because Trump.

[SDHornet]

Agree with that as well. It’s gotta be truly rough for you some days.

There’s a term for it that Reek likes to roll his eyes at


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So the "Deep State" is real?

[JBB]

NEWS FLASH:

Ralph Northam: 'A Militia Assembling To Defend Their Rights Against Tyranny Is A Dangerous First In American History'

RICHMOND, VA—Governor Ralph Northam condemned the group of gun owners who assembled yesterday, calling the concept "simply un-American."


"A militia assembling to defend their rights against tyranny is a dangerous first in American history," he said to a group of reporters, still teary-eyed from the tragic lack of violence at yesterday's rally. "This is not what America was founded on. It is not what our forefathers would have wanted."

"This well-regulated militia having the right to bear arms is diametrically opposed to everything the Founding Fathers wanted for our country." The governor said that Washington, Jefferson, and "those other guys" all probably did not like guns very much and when forced to fight would have used pointy sticks.

"It was not until the Trump administration that Americans started liking guns."

Northam said that we could have a better idea what the founders would have thought about guns, but sadly, "they did not see fit to leave us a document by which we might guard our country."

[JBB]

Lots of news today on gunz:


New, Deadlier AR-16 Introduced Which Is An AR-15 Wearing A MAGA Hat

U.S.—Horror has spread throughout the nation as the unthinkable has happened: A new, even deadlier successor to the AR-15 -- the AR-16 -- is now for sale. The gun is a lot like the destructive AR-15 but is even scarier, as it is wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat.

The AR-15 was the deadliest gun ever made, able to fire over 100 rounds a day. The “AR” in it stands for “AR-15 Rifle” and the 15 stands for “50% more than 10.” The new AR-16 is obviously even more destructive, though. “Guns are scary enough,” said being-scared-by-guns expert Noah Carlson, “but knowing a gun is a supporter of Donald Trump makes it even more terrifying. What’s it planning to do? Obviously nothing good.”

Carlson warned that the gun was probably racist and sexist and that he wouldn’t be surprised if it was also rude to women. There is now a campaign to have the gun banned, signed onto by all the major Democratic presidential candidates. Many gun rights supporters have called this hypocrisy, though, as recently the LGBTQ-15 also went on sale -- an AR-15 with a rainbow scarf -- and the left praised that gun and called it “appropriate for children.”

[Ibanez]

NEWS FLASH:

Ralph Northam: 'A Militia Assembling To Defend Their Rights Against Tyranny Is A Dangerous First In American History'

RICHMOND, VA—Governor Ralph Northam condemned the group of gun owners who assembled yesterday, calling the concept "simply un-American."


"A militia assembling to defend their rights against tyranny is a dangerous first in American history," he said to a group of reporters, still teary-eyed from the tragic lack of violence at yesterday's rally. "This is not what America was founded on. It is not what our forefathers would have wanted."

"This well-regulated militia having the right to bear arms is diametrically opposed to everything the Founding Fathers wanted for our country." The governor said that Washington, Jefferson, and "those other guys" all probably did not like guns very much and when forced to fight would have used pointy sticks.

"It was not until the Trump administration that Americans started liking guns."

Northam said that we could have a better idea what the founders would have thought about guns, but sadly, "they did not see fit to leave us a document by which we might guard our country."

Are you this fucking retarded that you can't post a link?

Moderator Kitteh....drop the catnip and take care of this guy.

[kalm]

NEWS FLASH:

Ralph Northam: 'A Militia Assembling To Defend Their Rights Against Tyranny Is A Dangerous First In American History'

Are you this fucking retarded that you can't post a link?

Moderator Kitteh....drop the catnip and take care of this guy.

No shit. You’ve gotta work your ass off around here to get banned. Getting banned twice would be legendary.

He’s saturation bombing every thread now.

[CID1990]

NEWS FLASH:

Ralph Northam: 'A Militia Assembling To Defend Their Rights Against Tyranny Is A Dangerous First In American History'

RICHMOND, VA—Governor Ralph Northam condemned the group of gun owners who assembled yesterday, calling the concept "simply un-American."


"A militia assembling to defend their rights against tyranny is a dangerous first in American history," he said to a group of reporters, still teary-eyed from the tragic lack of violence at yesterday's rally. "This is not what America was founded on. It is not what our forefathers would have wanted."

"This well-regulated militia having the right to bear arms is diametrically opposed to everything the Founding Fathers wanted for our country." The governor said that Washington, Jefferson, and "those other guys" all probably did not like guns very much and when forced to fight would have used pointy sticks.

"It was not until the Trump administration that Americans started liking guns."

Northam said that we could have a better idea what the founders would have thought about guns, but sadly, "they did not see fit to leave us a document by which we might guard our country."

You won’t attribute, and it is fairly obvious that the part in quotes isn’t what the VAGOVINA actually said

But he’s a cunt fir sure (and a VMI grad)

And you’re a cunt too


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[Ibanez]

Are you this fucking retarded that you can't post a link?

Moderator Kitteh....drop the catnip and take care of this guy.

No shit. You’ve gotta work your ass off around here to get banned. Getting banned twice would be legendary.

He’s saturation bombing every thread now.

You know it's bad when he's more irritating than exspandos

[JBB]

NEWS FLASH:

Ralph Northam: 'A Militia Assembling To Defend Their Rights Against Tyranny Is A Dangerous First In American History'

Are you this fucking retarded that you can't post a link?

Moderator Kitteh....drop the catnip and take care of this guy.

Fake news is hard to spot. Fake news you can trust is everywhere. If you weren’t given the skills to identify that which is true it all is. If you were given those skills none of it is.

Wise up no brains. Right click picture, click get info if you have a MAC. If you cant afford one who knows what you do. Ask a smart friend with a MAC I guess.

Real fake news you can trust is hard to Come by. Appreciate the work others do to keep you informed.

[Ibanez]

Are you this fucking retarded that you can't post a link?

Moderator Kitteh....drop the catnip and take care of this guy.

Fake news is hard to spot. Fake news you can trust is everywhere. If you weren’t given the skills to identify that which is true it all is. If you were given those skills none of it is.

Wise up no brains. Right click picture, click get info if you have a MAC. If you cant afford one who knows what you do. Ask a smart friend with a MAC I guess.

Real fake news you can trust is hard to Come by. Appreciate the work others do to keep you informed.

I'm glad this fucko is gone for 6 months.

[AZGrizFan]

Incorrect

Trump has wielded the pen and the phone no differently than many of his predecessors

I agree that the executive branch has assumed too much power from Congress .... I’m also glad that you are afraid of what Trump might do with that power

But none of your fellow travelers are... they are mostly shallow on this point and would preserve that power for a Bernie Sanders or worse

But let’s not pretend that Trump’s executive excesses are outliers by any stretch of the imagination

I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of a powerful executive branch. Eventually there will be a Dem in there and I want them to have just as much power as Trump is wielding. Congress has proven to be a bunch of do-nothing idiots all intent on lining their pockets and perpetually running for office......screw them & the Legislative branch.

You do understand that the power Trump is wielding came directly from the way Obama ran the office, yes?

[CID1990]

Incorrect

Trump has wielded the pen and the phone no differently than many of his predecessors

I agree that the executive branch has assumed too much power from Congress .... I’m also glad that you are afraid of what Trump might do with that power

But none of your fellow travelers are... they are mostly shallow on this point and would preserve that power for a Bernie Sanders or worse

But let’s not pretend that Trump’s executive excesses are outliers by any stretch of the imagination

I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of a powerful executive branch. Eventually there will be a Dem in there and I want them to have just as much power as Trump is wielding. Congress has proven to be a bunch of do-nothing idiots all intent on lining their pockets and perpetually running for office......screw them & the Legislative branch.

Why wait?

I know of a couple ready made monarchies where you’d feel right at home. United has code share flights to all of them.

[Chizzang]

[JohnStOnge]

Seriously. When all this Trump stuff is over we as a country REALLY need to reduce the power of the Presidency. To me it would be just clarifying the situation to return to the intent of the Congress being the most powerful branch. But we really need to get rid of the idea of power to determine the direction of the country being vested in one individual.

That includes no more of this crap of engaging in what are really wars without calling them wars. Another thing is that it needs to be established that when Congress asks the Executive Branch for information the Executive Branch hands over the information. Also that when Congress asks a member of the Executive Branch to testify the member of the Executive Branch testifies. No more of this '"Executive Privilege" crap. Put in safeguards to protect classified information but that excuse has got to go.

All throughout the Executive Branch discussions go on all the time and all of those discussions are part of information the Congress has a right to. Every e mail, every voicemail, every conversation during every meeting. That includes a whole bunch of people in the Senior Executive Service. The idea that we should have this one person at the very top, the Chief Executive, who is not subject to the same rules is absurd.

It's got to end.

[CID1990]

Seriously. When all this Trump stuff is over we as a country REALLY need to reduce the power of the Presidency. To me it would be just clarifying the situation to return to the intent of the Congress being the most powerful branch. But we really need to get rid of the idea of power to determine the direction of the country being vested in one individual.

That includes no more of this crap of engaging in what are really wars without calling them wars. Another thing is that it needs to be established that when Congress asks the Executive Branch for information the Executive Branch hands over the information. Also that when Congress asks a member of the Executive Branch to testify the member of the Executive Branch testifies. No more of this '"Executive Privilege" crap. Put in safeguards to protect classified information but that excuse has got to go.

All throughout the Executive Branch discussions go on all the time and all of those discussions are part of information the Congress has a right to. Every e mail, every voicemail, every conversation during every meeting. That includes a whole bunch of people in the Senior Executive Service. The idea that we should have this one person at the very top, the Chief Executive, who is not subject to the same rules is absurd.

It's got to end.

Now I agree with everything here except the length of your fcuking post