Coronavirus COVID-19

[SeattleGriz]

Once large numbers of test kits start hitting the streets we are in for a hell of a ride

buckle up fellas

The good news in this is that large numbers of asymptomatic sufferers suggests lower lethality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Defintitely lower lethality. Despite the the #s in the US testing positive being in the 300s now, I’m sure there are thousands in the US with it who just haven’t been tested. 15 dead. Lots of people saying 3.4% mortality rate is bogus.

Dr on Fox Business was saying the S Koreans have tested over 200k people. Tracker site now shows 6767 infected, 44 dead. That is a fatality rate of about .6%- marginally higher than the flu.

I pretty much live in the epicenter of the Seattle "outbreak". We got 4 neighbor kids over spending the night. That should tell you how worried our family is.

Other than being low on toilet paper, everyone is acting calm and normal around here.

[kalm]

That's not a vaccine. As you know, the idea of a vaccine is that it trains your body's immune system to quickly recognize the invader and it has already developed antibodies. Treatment subsequent to infection is not the same thing. The idea of a vaccine is that if the virus enters your body you will not NEED treatment because your body, prepared by the vaccine, will eliminate the invader and you will not develop the disease.

There is also the question of whether the guy would've recovered without the treatment. There is no way they can know about that. In order to show that the drug is effective in TREATING the disease (as opposed to vaccinating against it) there would have to be clinical trials to show that there is a difference between the recovery rate of those treated and those not treated.

This does not compromise the statement about the glaring ignorance Trump displayed at all.

Everything you say is compromised by your manic disorder.

Oh c'mon. If you were worried about AIDS would you feel safe after having the measles vaccine? Trump is a complete buffoon. You know damned well you wouldn't think a vaccine for one disease wouldn't work against another disease.

Tell that to measles, mumps, and rubella. One vaccine for three different diseases.



Fucking unhinged wingnut.

MMR is also sometimes used for AIDS patients.

[BDKJMU]

Yesterday (flu #s are this flu season):

[∞∞∞]

Good, fairly in-depth read. Here's a snippet:

On Saturday Jan. 11 — a month and a half before the first Covid-19 case not linked to travel was diagnosed in the United States — Chinese scientists posted the genome of the mysterious new virus, and within a week virologists in Berlin had produced the first diagnostic test for the disease.

Soon after, researchers in other nations rolled out their own tests, too, sometimes with different genetic targets. By the end of February, the World Health Organization had shipped tests to nearly 60 countries.

The United States was not among them.

Why the United States declined to use the WHO test, even temporarily as a bridge until the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention could produce its own test, remains a perplexing question and the key to the Trump administration’s failure to provide enough tests to identify the coronavirus infections before they could be passed on, according to POLITICO interviews with dozens of viral-disease experts, former officials and some officials within the administration’s health agencies.

The slowness of the testing regimen — which, administration officials acknowledged this week, is still not producing enough tests to meet the national demand — was the first, and most sweeping, of many failures. So far there have been confirmed cases in at least 23 states, and at least 15 deaths, while the stock market plunged and an otherwise healthy economy braced for a major disruption.

But neither the CDC nor the coronavirus task force chaired by Vice President Mike Pence would say who made the decision to forgo the WHO test and instead begin a protracted process of producing an American test, one that got delayed by manufacturing problems, possible lab contamination and logistical delays...

...The government’s incapacity to conduct widespread testing slowed diagnoses, creating chains of infection. It also deprived epidemiologists of a map that could have told them how far and how fast the virus was traveling and where they should concentrate efforts to slow it down.

But there were additional problems with the administration’s approach to testing, according to experts and former officials. From the start, the White House focused on containment, trusting that a limited ban on travel to and from China could somehow force a fast-moving virus to stop cold when it hit the Chinese border. But, while containment might have helped buy the U.S. some time, without aggressive domestic surveillance through testing, it was an incomplete strategy.

“They needed and still need to be searching for where the cases are, instead of trusting that limited travel bans were keeping out a virus that was probably already on the march,” said former FDA Commissioner David Kessler.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/0 ... ure-123166

[BDKJMU]

Looks like liberals are more predisposed. Close to 300 of the cases are blue state...

[Chizzang]

Looks like liberals are more predisposed. Close to 300 of the cases are blue state...

They travel...

[Ibanez]

Just heard there’s at least 2 confirmed cases in SC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

That's not a vaccine. As you know, the idea of a vaccine is that it trains your body's immune system to quickly recognize the invader and it has already developed antibodies. Treatment subsequent to infection is not the same thing. The idea of a vaccine is that if the virus enters your body you will not NEED treatment because your body, prepared by the vaccine, will eliminate the invader and you will not develop the disease.

There is also the question of whether the guy would've recovered without the treatment. There is no way they can know about that. In order to show that the drug is effective in TREATING the disease (as opposed to vaccinating against it) there would have to be clinical trials to show that there is a difference between the recovery rate of those treated and those not treated.

This does not compromise the statement about the glaring ignorance Trump displayed at all.

Everything you say is compromised by your manic disorder.

Oh c'mon. If you were worried about AIDS would you feel safe after having the measles vaccine? Trump is a complete buffoon. You know damned well you wouldn't think a vaccine for one disease wouldn't work against another disease.

Tell that to measles, mumps, and rubella. One vaccine for three different diseases.



Fucking unhinged wingnut.

MMR is three vaccines combined in the same shot. See https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/v ... a-vaccines. If the "The vaccines" section is not "open" click the arrow to open and see this:

The MMR vaccine contains vaccines that protect against three viral infections: measles, mumps and rubella.

It is a combination vaccine that contains attenuated (weakened) live virus. At the CDC page at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/ you can see this:

MMR is an attenuated (weakened) live virus vaccine. This means that after injection, the viruses cause a harmless infection in the vaccinated person with very few, if any, symptoms before they are eliminated from the body. The person’s immune system fights the infection caused by these weakened viruses, and immunity (the body’s protection from the virus) develops.

What that means is that the MMR contains attenuated versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps, and rubella. All three of them.

A vaccine developed specifically to bolster immune response against measles isn't going to work against mumps or rubella. And a vaccine developed to bolster immune response to influenza virus isn't going to have any effect with respect to bolstering immune response vs. coronavirus. It's not the "flu and coronavirus" vaccination. It's the flu vaccination.

Having said all that I will now concede that Trump's response wasn't as "out there" as I thought. The reason I say that is because it's become apparent to me that a lot fewer people than I thought understand what vaccines are and how they work. I had a Facebook discussion with "friends" and it became clear that a lot of them don't understand how ridiculous it was for Trump to ask if the influenza vaccine would work for coronavirus.

[SDHornet]

A pretty large school district here in the Sac area closed all schools for this upcoming week.

[Baldy]

Everything you say is compromised by your manic disorder.


Tell that to measles, mumps, and rubella. One vaccine for three different diseases.



Fucking unhinged wingnut.

MMR is three vaccines combined in the same shot. See https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/v ... a-vaccines. If the "The vaccines" section is not "open" click the arrow to open and see this:

The MMR vaccine contains vaccines that protect against three viral infections: measles, mumps and rubella.

It is a combination vaccine that contains attenuated (weakened) live virus. At the CDC page at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/ you can see this:

MMR is an attenuated (weakened) live virus vaccine. This means that after injection, the viruses cause a harmless infection in the vaccinated person with very few, if any, symptoms before they are eliminated from the body. The person’s immune system fights the infection caused by these weakened viruses, and immunity (the body’s protection from the virus) develops.

What that means is that the MMR contains attenuated versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps, and rubella. All three of them.

A vaccine developed specifically to bolster immune response against measles isn't going to work against mumps or rubella. And a vaccine developed to bolster immune response to influenza virus isn't going to have any effect with respect to bolstering immune response vs. coronavirus. It's not the "flu and coronavirus" vaccination. It's the flu vaccination.

Having said all that I will now concede that Trump's response wasn't as "out there" as I thought. The reason I say that is because it's become apparent to me that a lot fewer people than I thought understand what vaccines are and how they work. I had a Facebook discussion with "friends" and it became clear that a lot of them don't understand how ridiculous it was for Trump to ask if the influenza vaccine would work for coronavirus.

Yes, it's everyone else and not you.

[mainejeff]

Everyone settle down. And for fux sake.....don't freak out if the Dow goes below 25K this week! Why can't we just get through this like normal human beings? The virus doesn't know politics.....it will do what it is going to do. Trump still has a good shot at being re-elected if he can stop lying and freaking out himself. And we still have a good shot at seeing good ROI once this has subsided.

[kalm]

FWIW and taken with a grain of salt...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236 ... 03909.html

[HI54UNI]

FWIW and taken with a grain of salt...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236 ... 03909.html

It's shit like this that has all these people in a panic. JFC.

[mainejeff]

FWIW and taken with a grain of salt...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236 ... 03909.html

It's shit like this that has all these people in a panic. JFC.

Seriously. People are going to die....maybe it's better if they don't know ahead of time.

[kalm]

It's shit like this that has all these people in a panic. JFC.

Seriously. People are going to die....maybe it's better if they don't know ahead of time.

That’s why I said “take it with a grain of salt”.

Ironically, an over abundance of caution will save lives and in the end help prevent widespread panic.

Opinions, ideas, and thoughts are only dangerous if you allow them to be.

[HI54UNI]

Seriously. People are going to die....maybe it's better if they don't know ahead of time.

That’s why I said “take it with a grain of salt”.

Ironically, an over abundance of caution will save lives and in the end help prevent widespread panic.

Opinions, ideas, and thoughts are only dangerous if you allow them to be.

I'm not blaming you. I'm blaming the person that wrote it.

It's all speculation to drive panic.

Look at responses in some of these types of threads:

NY and other states need to use Eminent domain to take all of his hotels and properties and use them for quarantine

At what point do we close schools/theatres/large gatherings/sports events to reduce spreading the virus, and to buy the hospitals and scientists time? Now. Right now. Close everything. Self-isolate. Close all the borders. Stop all incoming traffic for the next 120 days.

So, if what you say is correct, we can only hope we are not infected. If we get infected late, we are screwed, bc there will be no healthcare, if we are in serious conditions; and if someone doesn’t have enough money, for 1 year, they’ll starve.

Thanks for making me even more scared than I already was...

A thread on common sense things people can do would be much better. But that doesn't get clicks.

[kalm]

That’s why I said “take it with a grain of salt”.

Ironically, an over abundance of caution will save lives and in the end help prevent widespread panic.

Opinions, ideas, and thoughts are only dangerous if you allow them to be.

I'm not blaming you. I'm blaming the person that wrote it.

It's all speculation to drive panic.

Look at responses in some of these types of threads:

NY and other states need to use Eminent domain to take all of his hotels and properties and use them for quarantine

At what point do we close schools/theatres/large gatherings/sports events to reduce spreading the virus, and to buy the hospitals and scientists time? Now. Right now. Close everything. Self-isolate. Close all the borders. Stop all incoming traffic for the next 120 days.

So, if what you say is correct, we can only hope we are not infected. If we get infected late, we are screwed, bc there will be no healthcare, if we are in serious conditions; and if someone doesn’t have enough money, for 1 year, they’ll starve.

Thanks for making me even more scared than I already was...

A thread on common sense things people can do would be much better. But that doesn't get clicks.

Oh I agree completely, Fiver. But that also shows the lack of self reliance and panic potential if shit were to ever truly even come close to hitting the fan. People freak the fuck out over slower internet speeds.

[BDKJMU]

Fri was reported 1st 2 cases in PA, one in my county, Delaware County (outside Philly). Woman apparently came down with it after attending a conference in Boston. Delaware Co delared a state of Emergency yesterday (the other case was in northeastern PA).

Yesterday evening 2 more cases in PA were announced- both Montgomery County outside Philly. Donk PA Gov made a disaster declaration (not sure how that differs from a state of Emergency).

[CID1990]

FWIW and taken with a grain of salt...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236 ... 03909.html

It is actually the real threat here -

Here’s another similar take


https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit ... nt-severe/

This is an ER doc who understands our capacity to deal with an outbreak at the clinical level


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

MMR is three vaccines combined in the same shot. See https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/v ... a-vaccines. If the "The vaccines" section is not "open" click the arrow to open and see this:



It is a combination vaccine that contains attenuated (weakened) live virus. At the CDC page at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/ you can see this:



What that means is that the MMR contains attenuated versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps, and rubella. All three of them.

A vaccine developed specifically to bolster immune response against measles isn't going to work against mumps or rubella. And a vaccine developed to bolster immune response to influenza virus isn't going to have any effect with respect to bolstering immune response vs. coronavirus. It's not the "flu and coronavirus" vaccination. It's the flu vaccination.

Having said all that I will now concede that Trump's response wasn't as "out there" as I thought. The reason I say that is because it's become apparent to me that a lot fewer people than I thought understand what vaccines are and how they work. I had a Facebook discussion with "friends" and it became clear that a lot of them don't understand how ridiculous it was for Trump to ask if the influenza vaccine would work for coronavirus.

Yes, it's everyone else and not you.

Again: Use the MMR as an example. It contains weakened versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps and rubella. It prepares the body's immune system for all three of the viruses because it exposes that immune system to versions of all three of them. If it did not contain, for example, the measles virus it would not prepare the body's immune system for measles.

You can read about the flu vaccine at https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm. It is actually also a combination shot but all of the viruses targeted by the combination are influenza viruses. As you can see, the idea is to use either killed influenza viruses, proteins from target influenza viruses, or live weakened influenza viruses (see "Can a flu vaccine give men the flu" section).

You can also find a section about how the effectiveness of the flu vaccines administered each year depends on how well they anticipate which influenza viruses to target (see "Vaccine Match" section). That section gives you an idea as to how important it is that the viral materials introduced to the immune system via the vaccine or vaccines match the viruses invading the body. There is no WAY a vaccine composed of influenza virus materials is going to have any effect on immunity to a totally different family of viruses (coronavirus).

However, as I wrote earlier, I did completely over estimate how widespread the understanding of what vaccines are and how they basically works is. When I saw video of Trump asking that question I cringed and thought, "What a STUPID question." But in discussing it with people I was surprised to see how many people thought it could be like one medication being used to treat different diseases. Like one antibiotic being used to address two different bacterial diseases or one anti viral agent being used to address two different viral diseases AFTER the body is infected.

[JohnStOnge]

Bottom line: If there were a vaccine that would confer immunity to both influenza viruses and coronaviruses, it would be called something like "Flue and Coronavirus" vaccine and it would contain weakened live viruses, killed viruses, and/or viral proteins from both families (Influenza and Coronavirus families of viruses).

[Baldy]

Yes, it's everyone else and not you.

Again: Use the MMR as an example. It contains weakened versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps and rubella. It prepares the body's immune system for all three of the viruses because it exposes that immune system to versions of all three of them. If it did not contain, for example, the measles virus it would not prepare the body's immune system for measles.

You can read about the flu vaccine at https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm. It is actually also a combination shot but all of the viruses targeted by the combination are influenza viruses. As you can see, the idea is to use either killed influenza viruses, proteins from target influenza viruses, or live weakened influenza viruses (see "Can a flu vaccine give men the flu" section).

You can also find a section about how the effectiveness of the flu vaccines administered each year depends on how well they anticipate which influenza viruses to target (see "Vaccine Match" section). That section gives you an idea as to how important it is that the viral materials introduced to the immune system via the vaccine or vaccines match the viruses invading the body. There is no WAY a vaccine composed of influenza virus materials is going to have any effect on immunity to a totally different family of viruses (coronavirus).

However, as I wrote earlier, I did completely over estimate how widespread the understanding of what vaccines are and how they basically works is. When I saw video of Trump asking that question I cringed and thought, "What a STUPID question." But in discussing it with people I was surprised to see how many people thought it could be like one medication being used to treat different diseases. Like one antibiotic being used to address two different bacterial diseases or one anti viral agent being used to address two different viral diseases AFTER the body is infected.

I've been married to an actual real live microbiologist for 20+ years. If I have any questions, I'll ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

And yes, she's laughing at all this unnecessary hysteria.

[mainejeff]

Again: Use the MMR as an example. It contains weakened versions of the viruses that cause measles, mumps and rubella. It prepares the body's immune system for all three of the viruses because it exposes that immune system to versions of all three of them. If it did not contain, for example, the measles virus it would not prepare the body's immune system for measles.

You can read about the flu vaccine at https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm. It is actually also a combination shot but all of the viruses targeted by the combination are influenza viruses. As you can see, the idea is to use either killed influenza viruses, proteins from target influenza viruses, or live weakened influenza viruses (see "Can a flu vaccine give men the flu" section).

You can also find a section about how the effectiveness of the flu vaccines administered each year depends on how well they anticipate which influenza viruses to target (see "Vaccine Match" section). That section gives you an idea as to how important it is that the viral materials introduced to the immune system via the vaccine or vaccines match the viruses invading the body. There is no WAY a vaccine composed of influenza virus materials is going to have any effect on immunity to a totally different family of viruses (coronavirus).

However, as I wrote earlier, I did completely over estimate how widespread the understanding of what vaccines are and how they basically works is. When I saw video of Trump asking that question I cringed and thought, "What a STUPID question." But in discussing it with people I was surprised to see how many people thought it could be like one medication being used to treat different diseases. Like one antibiotic being used to address two different bacterial diseases or one anti viral agent being used to address two different viral diseases AFTER the body is infected.

I've been married to an actual real live microbiologist for 20+ years. If I have any questions, I'll ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

And yes, she's laughing at all this unnecessary hysteria.

What "hysteria" would that be?

[Pwns]

I've been married to an actual real live microbiologist for 20+ years. If I have any questions, I'll ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

And yes, she's laughing at all this unnecessary hysteria.

What "hysteria" would that be?

What Michael Crichton dubbed "The Politico-Legal-Media Complex" in The State of Fear.

[SeattleGriz]

I've been married to an actual real live microbiologist for 20+ years. If I have any questions, I'll ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

And yes, she's laughing at all this unnecessary hysteria.

What "hysteria" would that be?

The hysteria that the mainstream media keeps promoting. I keep reading how bad it is out here in Seattle, but when I go places, outside of Costco being sold out of TP, I'm not seeing this hysteria.