Warren's Conditions for Bailouts

[UNI88]

I'm alright with #4. If you go to the government with hat in hand for a taxpayer bailout you shouldn't be giving executive bonuses anytime soon after.

#5 has some merit. A workers' voice on the board could be a good thing if properly structured. Defined benefit retirement plans should be required to hold a percentage of company stock so that the workers have a vested interest in the success of the company. With that stock comes voting power.

Should companies be able to double dip by getting worker concessions after they've already received government welfare handouts (#6)?

#7 is just an backdoor attempt to give Kalm his wetdream.

And he forgot #9 - no checks whatsoever should be given to anyone who attended the University of Maine.

After reading these proposals...I'd back door that Indian princess gilf!

(If you know what I mean)

When you finished he would take off his mask and wig and you would realize that you just back doored Bernie.

[kalm]

After reading these proposals...I'd back door that Indian princess gilf!

(If you know what I mean)

When you finished he would take off his mask and wig and you would realize that you just back doored Bernie.

Gross!

[houndawg]

We should put strings on how bailout money can be spent by corporations, but forcing them to make permanent changes to how they do business so they can survive a crisis they aren't responsible for isn't okay.

I'm amazed at the "corporations need us, we don't need them" attitude. Letting airlines and banks fail is going to have far-reaching consequences just like letting low-income people who are getting laid off fall on their asses will.

Then they and all production can be taken over by the government. We'll have a fraction of the innovation and advancement but hey, we'll all be equally miserable as we wait in line for bread before going home to punish our liver with excessive amounts of vodka. Equal outcomes is more important then quality of living and advancing the human race.

Yeah. Banks and airlines, leaders in innovation.

[houndawg]

1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.

That's the only good idea on that list.

Why don't the airlines borrow agaonst all that stock they just purchased?

[AZGrizFan]

Then they and all production can be taken over by the government. We'll have a fraction of the innovation and advancement but hey, we'll all be equally miserable as we wait in line for bread before going home to punish our liver with excessive amounts of vodka. Equal outcomes is more important then quality of living and advancing the human race.

Yeah. Banks and airlines, leaders in innovation.

When was the last time the government invented something? BESIDES red tape...

[CAA Flagship]

That's the only good idea on that list.

Why don't the airlines borrow agaonst all that stock they just purchased?

Because it's near worthless now, especially if they tried to unload it.

In reality, considering how far the stocks have fallen, if the airlines can recover in a year, the gain in their stock value may be more than their operating profit in the best of times.

[∞∞∞]

Yeah. Banks and airlines, leaders in innovation.

When was the last time the government invented something? BESIDES red tape...

Knowing AZ, this is a serious question. I guess he's never heard of universities, space programs, the military, etc.

The next time you fly on a modern jetliner, you can thank a homicidal fascist-government for the innovation.

[dbackjon]

We should put strings on how bailout money can be spent by corporations, but forcing them to make permanent changes to how they do business so they can survive a crisis they aren't responsible for isn't okay.

Ah... yes
Spoken like somebody who wasn't forced to study The Great Depression and rule 10b-18

Stock buybacks were a large factor in sending America into an enormous crash 90 years ago
followed by rule 10b-18 / another Reagan era disaster come home to roost today
There used to be rather significant liabilities associated with stock buybacks
which protected the integrity of the stock market and American citizens

Ronald Reagan didn't know anything about the Stock Market
but his buddy and personal financial advisor was assigned head of the SEC
and from that point forward the SEC ceased to be a "regulatory body" and became a corporate promotional wing of Wall Street



read any one of these... https://hbr.org/search?term=william%20lazonick

also:
from a guy that understands Wall Street
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/mark-cu ... again.html

Yup!

Another Reagan economic disaster. Reagan is one of the 5 worst Presidents in US history.

Oh, and his response to a World-wide Viral Pandemic killed tens of thousands of Americans. Fuck Reagan. And Fuck anyone that thinks he should be honored with anything

[AZGrizFan]

When was the last time the government invented something? BESIDES red tape...

Knowing AZ, this is a serious question. I guess he's never heard of universities, space programs, the military, etc.

The next time you fly on a modern jetliner, you can thank a homicidal fascist-government for the innovation.

Here's a hint, dipstick: The government didn't "invent" the military. In fact, in many countries, the military actually invented/established the government of that country. The government didn't invent the airplane OR jetliner. The government didn't invent universities. The modern university system has roots in the European medieval university, which was created in Italy and evolved from cathedral schools for the clergy during the High Middle Ages (yeah...Wiki). I'll give you a pass (barely) on space travel.

[dbackjon]

All Fantastic ideas. Too long companies have lied/cheated/stole/ignored all stakeholders other than short-term shareholders, then come running for a handout when times turn bad.

96% of Airline profits have gone to stock Buy backs.

We’re not writing blank checks to giant corporations. Any taxpayer dollars that go to help big businesses during the coronavirus crisis should come with the following minimum requirements:

1. Companies must maintain their payrolls and use funds to keep people working or on payroll.

2. Companies must provide a $15 minimum wage within one year of the national emergency declaration ending.

3. Companies are permanently prohibited from engaging in share repurchases.

4. Companies are prohibited from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they are receiving any relief and for three years thereafter.

5. Companies must set aside at least one seat – but potentially two or more, as the amount of relief increases – on the board of directors for representatives elected by workers.

6. Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place and should not be reopened or renegotiated pursuant to this relief program.


7. Corporations must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political expenditures.

8. CEOs must be required to personally certify a company is in compliance and face criminal penalties for false certifications.

Congress must set up an oversight body, modeled on the Congressional Oversight Panel and the SIGTARP program for the bank bailout, but with real funding & subpoena power. We need real accountability to make sure these conditions are met.

I'm in favor of putting conditions on government loans/handouts, but some of the above is really window dressing.
-The $15 minimum wage is not really that big of a deal for most corporations that would be asking for money - how many airline employees make under the minimum wage today? Probably very few.
- No share repurchases, ever? Corporations tend to be immortal, so are you honestly saying it's good economic principle to ban stock repurchases going out 300-500 years from now? I think putting a 10 year window on banning stock repurchases is fine. Make it 20 years if you want. Infinite is just silly talk. Share repurchases, per se, aren't bad things. Share repurchases right after a government bailout are different.
- The shareholder and board approval thing for all political expenditures is troublesome. What is a political expenditure? Can commercials or any other marketing every be fully considered to be not political? And when you have a political body (Congress) overseeing this I'm sure that will be a lightning rod going forward that won't always have a clear answer. Sounds great, but also sounds impossible to truly manage.

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

[GannonFan]

I'm in favor of putting conditions on government loans/handouts, but some of the above is really window dressing.
-The $15 minimum wage is not really that big of a deal for most corporations that would be asking for money - how many airline employees make under the minimum wage today? Probably very few.
- No share repurchases, ever? Corporations tend to be immortal, so are you honestly saying it's good economic principle to ban stock repurchases going out 300-500 years from now? I think putting a 10 year window on banning stock repurchases is fine. Make it 20 years if you want. Infinite is just silly talk. Share repurchases, per se, aren't bad things. Share repurchases right after a government bailout are different.
- The shareholder and board approval thing for all political expenditures is troublesome. What is a political expenditure? Can commercials or any other marketing every be fully considered to be not political? And when you have a political body (Congress) overseeing this I'm sure that will be a lightning rod going forward that won't always have a clear answer. Sounds great, but also sounds impossible to truly manage.

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

Certainly sometimes they are, but there are genuine instances where they aren't a stock gimmick. The blanket "forever" misses out on that.

[dbackjon]

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

Certainly sometimes they are, but there are genuine instances where they aren't a stock gimmick. The blanket "forever" misses out on that.

It doesn't go far enough

Share repurchases should be illegal AGAIN (like they were up until Reagan the Destroyer and his "reforms"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-reason ... 53787.html


The SEC, operating under the Reagan Republicans, passed rule 10b-18, which made stock buybacks legal. Up until the passing of this rule, the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 considered large-scale share repurchases a form of stock manipulation.

The 1982 rule provided “safe harbor” protection as long as a company bought back no more than 25% of its average daily volume over the previous four weeks and didn’t buy its stock at the beginning or end of the day’s trading. The SEC Commissioners argued at the time that the rule would encourage higher stock prices thereby benefiting investors across the board.

[dbackjon]

From 2017:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aalsin...u ... f88a4e6b1e

As Reuters wrote recently, “Stock buybacks enrich the bosses even when business sags.”


Finally, more than 30 years after they were legalized, stock buybacks are getting the scrutiny they deserve. For instance, Sen. Elizabeth Warren said in a recent interview with the Boston Globe that “stock buybacks create a sugar high for the corporations. It boosts prices in the short run, but the real way to boost the value of a corporation is to invest in the future, and they are not doing that.”

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Ah... yes
Spoken like somebody who wasn't forced to study The Great Depression and rule 10b-18

Stock buybacks were a large factor in sending America into an enormous crash 90 years ago
followed by rule 10b-18 / another Reagan era disaster come home to roost today
There used to be rather significant liabilities associated with stock buybacks
which protected the integrity of the stock market and American citizens

Ronald Reagan didn't know anything about the Stock Market
but his buddy and personal financial advisor was assigned head of the SEC
and from that point forward the SEC ceased to be a "regulatory body" and became a corporate promotional wing of Wall Street



read any one of these... https://hbr.org/search?term=william%20lazonick

also:
from a guy that understands Wall Street
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/mark-cu ... again.html

Yup!

Another Reagan economic disaster. Reagan is one of the 5 worst Presidents in US history.

Oh, and his response to a World-wide Viral Pandemic killed tens of thousands of Americans. Fuck Reagan. And Fuck anyone that thinks he should be honored with anything

Fuck me!




Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[CAA Flagship]

The modern university system has roots in the European medieval university, which was created in Italy

Also:

[dbackjon]

From 2015:

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... backs-pay/

Part 2: Most major U.S. companies tie part of executive pay to earnings per share and other metrics to align the interests of management and shareholders. The trouble is, these numbers can be - and often are - influenced by buybacks and other maneuvers that have little to do with operating performance.


NEW YORK – When health insurer Humana Inc reported worse-than-expected quarterly earnings in late 2014 – including a 21 percent drop in net income – it softened the blow by immediately telling investors it would make a $500 million share repurchase.

In addition to soothing shareholders, the surprise buyback benefited the company’s senior executives. It added around two cents to the company’s annual earnings per share, allowing Humana to surpass its $7.50 EPS target by a single cent and unlocking higher pay for top managers under terms of the company’s compensation agreement.

Thanks to Humana hitting that target, Chief Executive Officer Bruce Broussard earned a $1.68 million bonus for 2014.

[dbackjon]

Yup!

Another Reagan economic disaster. Reagan is one of the 5 worst Presidents in US history.

Oh, and his response to a World-wide Viral Pandemic killed tens of thousands of Americans. Fuck Reagan. And Fuck anyone that thinks he should be honored with anything

Fuck me!




Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Which caliber do you prefer?

[CAA Flagship]

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

That's extreme. Stay focused on the source of the money for buybacks.

Many companies have to issue additional stock in order to raise capital for various things. Shareholders take a hit from dilution when that happens. There's no reason a company can't buy back their stock if the money wasn't from the public.

[dbackjon]

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

That's extreme. Stay focused on the source of the money for buybacks.

Many companies have to issue additional stock in order to raise capital for various things. Shareholders take a hit from dilution when that happens. There's no reason a company can't buy back their stock if the money wasn't from the public.

Not extreme at all.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Fuck me!




Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Which caliber do you prefer?

You don't have it

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

Which caliber do you prefer?

You don't have it

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

I could arrange it

[Chizzang]

Share buy-backs are stock manipulation and should be banned regardless.

That's extreme. Stay focused on the source of the money for buybacks.

Many companies have to issue additional stock in order to raise capital for various things. Shareholders take a hit from dilution when that happens. There's no reason a company can't buy back their stock if the money wasn't from the public.

I'm cool with Stock buybacks if the original liabilities are returned as well...
such as minority shareholders advanced disbursement over the executive team and board members

if the executive team is willing to pay everybody else in front of themselves
that gives you a strong indication they are being honest
if not - they are working on fucking everybody but themselves

This is why buybacks were made illegal
because everybody "else" got fucked except the executive teams that concocted the schemes

Note: Its exactly the same as stealing somebody else's money - exactly the same - except it has zero consequences

[houndawg]

Why don't the airlines borrow agaonst all that stock they just purchased?

Because it's near worthless now, especially if they tried to unload it.

In reality, considering how far the stocks have fallen, if the airlines can recover in a year, the gain in their stock value may be more than their operating profit in the best of times.

chicken dinner!

Hmmmmm.......a year.........must be their long range plan.

[houndawg]

Yeah. Banks and airlines, leaders in innovation.

When was the last time the government invented something? BESIDES red tape...

oooops.....missed the point again..

Just because the government never invented anything besides red tape, (which statement is bullshit in and of itself), doesn't mean airlines or oil companies are hotbeds of innovation; whether they are or not.

[AZGrizFan]

When was the last time the government invented something? BESIDES red tape...

oooops.....missed the point again..

Just because the government never invented anything besides red tape, (which statement is bullshit in and of itself), doesn't mean airlines or oil companies are hotbeds of innovation; whether they are or not.

I can assure you the list of patents and inventions coming from those two industries ALONE dwarf any list of meaningful inventions/innovation coming out of your beloved federal government (which may very well be the null set).

Banking:

Mobile banking (Deutche Bank)
Remote deposit capture (invented and patented by USAA)
ATM's (Barclay's Bank, London)

Those three alone have done more for civilization than any government. Maybe even the TOTALITY of government.