Convicted Little Girl Fucker Claims To Be Prophet..

[AZGrizFan]

Is that what passes as a liberal apology?

Who the flying fuck are you? This is between native and me.

Nice dodge. NOT.

[JoltinJoe]

Well, in this case, the Christians in this nation had the guy arrested, tried, convicted and are now sending him to jail. That's not good enough?

Joe, this looks good, but fails to address his point, which, again is the christian silence and failure to condemn and police their whackjobs.

Primarily, the people who arrested him were police officers, District Attorneys, etc. first. They were doing their jobs.

They were Christians (at least most of them were, given the demographics of that region) who were doing their jobs.

At root, what you guys are complaining about aren't criminal acts of conservative fundamentalist Christian religious leaders. When they engage in criminal acts, they go to jail like anyone else.

In truth, you are really talking about political speech from conservative Christian fundamentalists. They have a viewpoint you don't like, you consider them whackos, and you want moderate Christians to silence their political speech, don't you?

More accurately, liberal progressives should consider the political and judicial tactics they have utilized in the past 40 years or so which have ignited the flame of the conservative fundamentalist political movement. The liberal progressives are the ones who politicized and nationalized the differences over morality in ths country -- a debate our founders had wisely avoided by leaving questions pertaining to morality to be resolved on a state-by-state basis, according to each state's viewpoint.

[D1B]

Joe, this looks good, but fails to address his point, which, again is the christian silence and failure to condemn and police their whackjobs.

Primarily, the people who arrested him were police officers, District Attorneys, etc. first. They were doing their jobs.

They were Christians (at least most of them were, given the demographics of that region) who were doing their jobs.

They were people doing their jobs, that's all, nothing else, religion has nothing to do with it. Again, nice try. Looks good, may sway an uninformed or distracted jury, but is unneccessary here. Fundamentalist Christian whackjobs, and that includes alot of catholics like the Pope, the army of homosexual pedophiles filling the priest ranks, and all other lunatics AND the religion they use to perpetrate their crimes need to be held accountable.

Yeah, thank god for liberal progressives "politicizing morality" by securing the right for woman to make their own health decisions, keeping christianity out of public schools and keeping it from becoming our official religion, fighting discrimination against homosexuals......

Joe I find it contradictory to your supposed world view (jesus) that you would advocate a system where states, guided by fundamentalist christians, basically could systematically discriminate against people.

The founding fathers were brilliant, but that shit was like 200 years ago and it wasn't perfect.

Sorry Joe, abortion is here to stay. Thank god.

[OL FU]

I have been paying attention - and curious - about American Christianities non-existent battle against it's lunatic fringe... almost nobody has attempted to organize and stand-down the christian nut groups

it's a curious situation, because we as a nation have been accusing Islam of not policing it's lunatic fringe

DING DING DING!

I believe the leader of the group is in jail. I think if moderate christians started vigilante groups you would be crying to high heaven. Supposedly in civilized countries, people point the police to the problem and law enforcement takes care of it.

What a ridiculous group of posts to think that moderate christians are suppose to somehow through some grass roots efforts stop nutcases like this outside of law enforcement.

The complaint with Moslems not policing their on is significantly with the governments of Moslem countries allowing radicals to train and arm and finance their operations inside their borders. I do think sometime the desire to bait means logic and reason are totally forgotten.

cleets, you are better than that.

[D1B]

DING DING DING!

I believe the leader of the group is in jail. I think if moderate christians started vigilante groups you would be crying to high heaven. Supposedly in civilized countries, people point the police to the problem and law enforcement takes care of it.

What a ridiculous group of posts to think that moderate christians are suppose to somehow through some grass roots efforts stop nutcases like this outside of law enforcement.

FU, it goes beyond crime.

I'm 100% confident that Joltin Joe and other are embarrassed and sometimes ashamed at what has become of American christianity - the frauds, the commercialism, the industry, the mormons, the televised events, the utter departure from the teachings of Jesus, etc.

It's effecting them too as people are leaving the churches in droves and no one wants to be a priest or nun anymore.

Simple, level headed denouncements from church leadership would suffice. But they wont take on "fellow christians" as they (catholics) have their skeletons too and don't want a public religious war of words.

[Cap'n Cat]

Agreed.


Be warned, too, everyone, of the coming American Fundamentalist Christian jihad.

[OL FU]

I believe the leader of the group is in jail. I think if moderate christians started vigilante groups you would be crying to high heaven. Supposedly in civilized countries, people point the police to the problem and law enforcement takes care of it.

What a ridiculous group of posts to think that moderate christians are suppose to somehow through some grass roots efforts stop nutcases like this outside of law enforcement.

FU, it goes beyond crime.

I'm 100% confident that Joltin Joe and other are embarrassed and sometimes ashamed at what has become of American christianity - the frauds, the commercialism, the industry, the mormons, the televised events, the utter departure from the teachings of Jesus, etc.

It's effecting them too as people are leaving the churches in droves and no one wants to be a priest or nun anymore.

Simple, level headed denouncements from church leadership would suffice. But they wont take on "fellow christians" as they (catholics) have their skeletons too and don't want a public religious war of words.

I doubt seriously that many moderate christians consider these fringe groups christians. your comments remind me of one of the problems we have with modern politics and that is that intentions are more important than accomplishments.

Now if you are comparing this to some of the problems of certain denominations (in particular the Catholic church and its pedophilia scandal I am not going to argue with you. The Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself. But a denunciation of criminal behavior simply because the perpetuators call themselves christians would only serve to provide some credibility to their claim to be christian. They should simply be put in jail like all criminals. And to compare this behavior to criticisms of Islamic countries that support radical islamist is simply ridiculous.

[JoltinJoe]

They were Christians (at least most of them were, given the demographics of that region) who were doing their jobs.

They were people doing their jobs, that's all, nothing else, religion has nothing to do with it. Again, nice try. Looks good, may sway an uninformed or distracted jury, but is unneccessary here. Fundamentalist Christian whackjobs, and that includes alot of catholics like the Pope, the army of homosexual pedophiles filling the priest ranks, and all other lunatics AND the religion they use to perpetrate their crimes need to be held accountable.

Yeah, thank god for liberal progressives "politicizing morality" by securing the right for woman to make their own health decisions, keeping christianity out of public schools and keeping it from becoming our official religion, fighting discrimination against homosexuals......

Joe I find it contradictory to your supposed world view (jesus) that you would advocate a system where states, guided by fundamentalist christians, basically could systematically discriminate against people.

The founding fathers were brilliant, but that **** was like 200 years ago and it wasn't perfect.

Sorry Joe, abortion is here to stay. Thank god.

You are missing my point. Calling your political opponents "whackos" does little to advance political discourse. You "progressive liberals" created the "Moral Majority" and the religiously-based fundamentalist political movements by trying to impose your morality on a national basis through the federal judiciary. Needless to say, if you initiate a national debate on an issue, don't be surprised if your political opponents organize on a national basis. Calling them "whackos" is just a political device to try to marginalize your political opponents. Face it, you are flip sides of the same coin, so if they are whackos, what does that say about you?

Now if you want to talk about a truly insane "whacko," let's talk abot Madelyn Murray O'Hare -- a deeply disturbed true whack job if there ever was one.

[D1B]

FU, it goes beyond crime.

I'm 100% confident that Joltin Joe and other are embarrassed and sometimes ashamed at what has become of American christianity - the frauds, the commercialism, the industry, the mormons, the televised events, the utter departure from the teachings of Jesus, etc.

It's effecting them too as people are leaving the churches in droves and no one wants to be a priest or nun anymore.

Simple, level headed denouncements from church leadership would suffice. But they wont take on "fellow christians" as they (catholics) have their skeletons too and don't want a public religious war of words.

I doubt seriously that many moderate christians consider these fringe groups christians. your comments remind me of one of the problems we have with modern politics and that is that intentions are more important than accomplishments.

Now if you are comparing this to some of the problems of certain denominations (in particular the Catholic church and its pedophilia scandal I am not going to argue with you. The Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself. But a denunciation of criminal behavior simply because the perpetuators call themselves christians would only serve to provide some credibility to their claim to be christian. They should simply be put in jail like all criminals. And to compare this behavior to criticisms of Islamic countries that support radical islamist is simply ridiculous.

Whether they consider the fringe christian aint the point. They are imposters who are ruining our country (religious fundamentalist takeover of the republican party and the white house) and ruining christianity. Progressive liberals have limited ability to counter. Rational christians and catholics can do a world of good by being more active in condemnation.

[native]

... I do think sometime the desire to bait means logic and reason are totally forgotten.

...cleets, you are better than that.

Cleets is smarter than that, but he is not better than that!

[D1B]

They were people doing their jobs, that's all, nothing else, religion has nothing to do with it. Again, nice try. Looks good, may sway an uninformed or distracted jury, but is unneccessary here. Fundamentalist Christian whackjobs, and that includes alot of catholics like the Pope, the army of homosexual pedophiles filling the priest ranks, and all other lunatics AND the religion they use to perpetrate their crimes need to be held accountable.

Yeah, thank god for liberal progressives "politicizing morality" by securing the right for woman to make their own health decisions, keeping christianity out of public schools and keeping it from becoming our official religion, fighting discrimination against homosexuals......

Joe I find it contradictory to your supposed world view (jesus) that you would advocate a system where states, guided by fundamentalist christians, basically could systematically discriminate against people.

The founding fathers were brilliant, but that **** was like 200 years ago and it wasn't perfect.

Sorry Joe, abortion is here to stay. Thank god.

You are missing my point. Calling your political opponents "whackos" does little to advance political discourse. You "progressive liberals" created the "Moral Majority" and the religiously-based fundamentalist political movements by trying to impose your morality on a national basis through the federal judiciary. Needless to say, if you initiate a national debate on an issue, don't be surprised if your political opponents organize on a national basis. Calling them "whackos" is just a political device to try to marginalize your political opponents. Face it, you are flip sides of the same coin, so if they are whackos, what does that say about you?

Now if you want to talk about a truly insane "whacko," let's talk abot Madelyn Murray O'Hair -- a deeply disturbed true whack job if there ever was one.

Fair enough.

Joe those "whackos" are enemies of the both of us. Now do your part.

[JoltinJoe]

I doubt seriously that many moderate christians consider these fringe groups christians. your comments remind me of one of the problems we have with modern politics and that is that intentions are more important than accomplishments.

Now if you are comparing this to some of the problems of certain denominations (in particular the Catholic church and its pedophilia scandal I am not going to argue with you. The Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself. But a denunciation of criminal behavior simply because the perpetuators call themselves christians would only serve to provide some credibility to their claim to be christian. They should simply be put in jail like all criminals. And to compare this behavior to criticisms of Islamic countries that support radical islamist is simply ridiculous.

Whether they consider the fringe christian aint the point. They are imposters who are ruining our country (religious fundamentalist takeover of the republican party and the white house) and ruining christianity. Progressive liberals have limited ability to counter. Rational christians and catholics can do a world of good by being more active in condemnation.

Why should I have to clean up your mess? They are your political opponents. Your movement (which I also don't agre with) was their catalyst to form, organize, and become political on a national basis. You are flip sides of the same coin. Remember, for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I've got no dog in the fight. I'm aligned with neither of you.

[JoltinJoe]

You are missing my point. Calling your political opponents "whackos" does little to advance political discourse. You "progressive liberals" created the "Moral Majority" and the religiously-based fundamentalist political movements by trying to impose your morality on a national basis through the federal judiciary. Needless to say, if you initiate a national debate on an issue, don't be surprised if your political opponents organize on a national basis. Calling them "whackos" is just a political device to try to marginalize your political opponents. Face it, you are flip sides of the same coin, so if they are whackos, what does that say about you?

Now if you want to talk about a truly insane "whacko," let's talk abot Madelyn Murray O'Hair -- a deeply disturbed true whack job if there ever was one.

Fair enough.

Joe those "whackos" are enemies of the both of us. Now do your part.

What am I supposed to do? I don't believe that each and every word of the Bible is literal truth. I believe that much of the Bible is allegorical.

I'm as much a heathen to them as you are.

[AZGrizFan]

The irony of the liberals' argument here is this: they apparently want "good" Christians to use vigilante justice to reign in the "bad" Christians, yet they scream from the rooftops when "bad" Christians use vigilante justice to reign in what THEY see as an injustice----abortion doctors. OL FU pointed out the fundamental difference between our country and the muslim countries harboring terrorists. We have laws, and those laws are enforced. THAT'S why this guy's in jail, and not out planning his next attack. As we ferret them out, they are exposed, charged, convicted and sentenced. Yeah, the system ain't perfect, but to imply that Christians AS A GROUP are standing idly by while these folks have their way with society is ludicrous.

[D1B]

Whether they consider the fringe christian aint the point. They are imposters who are ruining our country (religious fundamentalist takeover of the republican party and the white house) and ruining christianity. Progressive liberals have limited ability to counter. Rational christians and catholics can do a world of good by being more active in condemnation.

Why should I have to clean up your mess? They are your political opponents. Your movement (which I also don't agre with) was their catalyst to form, organize, and become political on a national basis. You are flip sides of the same coin. Remember, for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I've got no dog in the fight. I'm aligned with neither of you.

I don't agree with you that the liberal progressive movement created the whackjob that share your belief in jesus christ as the savior of the world. Religion as modern politics is primarily the creation of free market capitalists (neo cons) and big business who courted them as a voter base - the era of Reagan.

Brilliant formula, that is ironically used in dictaterships in the middle east:

Christian whackjob = Mullahs: Give moral and religious sanction to royal families/ oil shieks = American corporations who create and operate a government solely designe to protect their financial interests. Corporation don't fuck with religion and their voting base and the christian have their foot in the highest offices of government.

Perfect, until it all blew up in their faces the last 8 years and now everyone is suffering.

Don't tell me you don't have a horse in this race.

[OL FU]

I doubt seriously that many moderate christians consider these fringe groups christians. your comments remind me of one of the problems we have with modern politics and that is that intentions are more important than accomplishments.

Now if you are comparing this to some of the problems of certain denominations (in particular the Catholic church and its pedophilia scandal I am not going to argue with you. The Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself. But a denunciation of criminal behavior simply because the perpetuators call themselves christians would only serve to provide some credibility to their claim to be christian. They should simply be put in jail like all criminals. And to compare this behavior to criticisms of Islamic countries that support radical islamist is simply ridiculous.

Whether they consider the fringe christian aint the point. They are imposters who are ruining our country (religious fundamentalist takeover of the republican party and the white house) and ruining christianity. Progressive liberals have limited ability to counter. Rational christians and catholics can do a world of good by being more active in condemnation.

I will respect your position that the should actively condemn them. I will disagree with the requirement to do so because I think it will be meaningleass and probably only lead to further criticism that they should do more when there is really nothing they can do.

My larger issue was with my buddy and pal cleets who compared their inaction to Islamic radicals. Way to many big differences. I realize that many people were calling for Islamist in this country to criticize the radicals which I thought would have meant about as much as what you are asking christians to do. Make everybody feel better, accomplish nothing. The issue with radical islamist is their governments were protecting them and possibly encouraging them. Two totally different issues.

[D1B]

The irony of the liberals' argument here is this: they apparently want "good" Christians to use vigilante justice to reign in the "bad" Christians, yet they scream from the rooftops when "bad" Christians use vigilante justice to reign in what THEY see as an injustice----abortion doctors. OL FU pointed out the fundamental difference between our country and the muslim countries harboring terrorists. We have laws, and those laws are enforced. THAT'S why this guy's in jail, and not out planning his next attack. As we ferret them out, they are exposed, charged, convicted and sentenced. Yeah, the system ain't perfect, but to imply that Christians AS A GROUP are standing idly by while these folks have their way with society is ludicrous.

Good post, but when you factor in their incredible ability to agents of change, on so many fronts, they ARE standing by idly.

[AZGrizFan]

Why should I have to clean up your mess? They are your political opponents. Your movement (which I also don't agre with) was their catalyst to form, organize, and become political on a national basis. You are flip sides of the same coin. Remember, for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I've got no dog in the fight. I'm aligned with neither of you.

I don't agree with you that the liberal progressive movement created the whackjob that share your belief in jesus christ as the savior of the world. Religion as modern politics is primarily the creation of free market capitalists (neo cons) and big business who courted them as a voter base - the era of Reagan.

Brilliant formula, that is ironically used in dictaterships in the middle east:

Christian whackjob = Mullahs: Give moral and religious sanction to royal families/ oil shieks = American corporations who create and operate a government solely designe to protect their financial interests. Corporation don't fuck with religion and their voting base and the christian have their foot in the highest offices of government.

Perfect, until it all blew up in their faces the last 8 years and now everyone is suffering.

Don't tell me you don't have a horse in this race.

The flaw in your argument, D, is to imply that this has only been going on for the past 8 years. Try about 180. You guys (libs) continue to act like Bush INVENTED this system. I thought he was a dumb fuck?

[AZGrizFan]

The irony of the liberals' argument here is this: they apparently want "good" Christians to use vigilante justice to reign in the "bad" Christians, yet they scream from the rooftops when "bad" Christians use vigilante justice to reign in what THEY see as an injustice----abortion doctors. OL FU pointed out the fundamental difference between our country and the muslim countries harboring terrorists. We have laws, and those laws are enforced. THAT'S why this guy's in jail, and not out planning his next attack. As we ferret them out, they are exposed, charged, convicted and sentenced. Yeah, the system ain't perfect, but to imply that Christians AS A GROUP are standing idly by while these folks have their way with society is ludicrous.

Good post, but when you factor in their incredible ability to agents of change, on so many fronts, they ARE standing by idly.

How, exactly, would you have Christians "change" these beasts? Explain your game plan.

[D1B]

I don't agree with you that the liberal progressive movement created the whackjob that share your belief in jesus christ as the savior of the world. Religion as modern politics is primarily the creation of free market capitalists (neo cons) and big business who courted them as a voter base - the era of Reagan.

Brilliant formula, that is ironically used in dictaterships in the middle east:

Christian whackjob = Mullahs: Give moral and religious sanction to royal families/ oil shieks = American corporations who create and operate a government solely designe to protect their financial interests. Corporation don't fuck with religion and their voting base and the christian have their foot in the highest offices of government.

Perfect, until it all blew up in their faces the last 8 years and now everyone is suffering.

Don't tell me you don't have a horse in this race.

The flaw in your argument, D, is to imply that this has only been going on for the past 8 years. Try about 180. You guys (libs) continue to act like Bush INVENTED this system. I thought he was a dumb fuck?

In some form or another, perhaps. This country has been ruled since day one by money, for better and for worse.

For this discussion I used the term "modern" in my assessment of creation.

[AZGrizFan]

The flaw in your argument, D, is to imply that this has only been going on for the past 8 years. Try about 180. You guys (libs) continue to act like Bush INVENTED this system. I thought he was a dumb fuck?

In some form or another, perhaps. This country has been ruled since day one by money, for better and for worse.

For this discussion I used the term "modern" in my assessment of creation.

Assuming you meant the creation of free market economics, THAT has been going on since the dawn of the country as well. Much like Obama (who, when taking the office of President realizes he can't DO all the things he promised), they become victims of the position, the office, the White House. Bush wasn't nearly as dumb as you all make him out to be, and Obama's not nearly as smart. They simply realized once they get into office who's REALLY running the country. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it true.

[D1B]

In some form or another, perhaps. This country has been ruled since day one by money, for better and for worse.

For this discussion I used the term "modern" in my assessment of creation.

Assuming you meant the creation of free market economics, THAT has been going on since the dawn of the country as well. Much like Obama (who, when taking the office of President realizes he can't DO all the things he promised), they become victims of the position, the office, the White House. Bush wasn't nearly as dumb as you all make him out to be, and Obama's not nearly as smart. They simply realized once they get into office who's REALLY running the country. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it true.

[D1B]

Good post, but when you factor in their incredible ability to agents of change, on so many fronts, they ARE standing by idly.

How, exactly, would you have Christians "change" these beasts? Explain your game plan.

Consistent, fair and firm public commentary on their frequent blashemy. Simple stating their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of jesus christ, our lord savior and king of kings.

[AZGrizFan]

How, exactly, would you have Christians "change" these beasts? Explain your game plan.

Consistent, fair and firm public commentary on their frequent blashemy. Simple stating their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of jesus christ, our lord savior and king of kings.

Yeah, because NOBODY goes on the air and condemns these guys, or the Phelps family "church", or Warren Jeffs, etc., etc., etc. Me thinks you won't be happy until you've heard from EVERY Christian.

I think I've figured out what your problem is: You can't differentiate between a religion and a cult.

[D1B]

Consistent, fair and firm public commentary on their frequent blashemy. Simple stating their actions are inconsistent with the teachings of jesus christ, our lord savior and king of kings.

Yeah, because NOBODY goes on the air and condemns these guys, or the Phelps family "church", or Warren Jeffs, etc., etc., etc. Me thinks you won't be happy until you've heard from EVERY Christian.

I think I've figured out what your problem is: You can't differentiate between a religion and a cult.

Not really Z. Do you remember the Pope taking a shot at Islamic fundamentalism not too long ago?