Coronavirus COVID-19

[Gil Dobie]

[Ivytalk]

That’s more like our old, irreverent Gil!

[CAA Flagship]

OK. You are out of your bubble. I get it. I'll let you retreat. Run along.

I'm curious at what point you have your Obama Afghanistan moment

That was the moment I harken back to when I stopped defending Obama and started thinking about everything he did
in a truly critical way... in an intellectually honest way with no apologetics and blind faith

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

[kalm]

OK. You are out of your bubble. I get it. I'll let you retreat. Run along.

I'm curious at what point you have your Obama Afghanistan moment

That was the moment I harken back to when I stopped defending Obama and started thinking about everything he did
in a truly critical way... in an intellectually honest way with no apologetics and blind faith

Whoa! Wait a second there fella! Are you saying there’s a correlation between tribalism and gullibility? On both sides?

[Chizzang]

I'm curious at what point you have your Obama Afghanistan moment

That was the moment I harken back to when I stopped defending Obama and started thinking about everything he did
in a truly critical way... in an intellectually honest way with no apologetics and blind faith

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

You've been carrying way too much water these past 3 years to settle in on that defense
Like I said... Whatever helps you sleep

[UNI88]

I'm curious at what point you have your Obama Afghanistan moment

That was the moment I harken back to when I stopped defending Obama and started thinking about everything he did
in a truly critical way... in an intellectually honest way with no apologetics and blind faith

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

I'll take Ivy's word for it if he says that Trump has a duty to disclose in this situation. But I also get Flaggy and AZ's point. Is it reasonable for us to expect Trump to know everything that he owns a piece of? I don't know everything that is in the mutual funds that I own and I have owned various Dodge & Cox funds.

[Chizzang]

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

I'll take Ivy's word for it if he says that Trump has a duty to disclose in this situation. But I also get Flaggy and AZ's point. Is it reasonable for us to expect Trump to know everything that he owns a piece of? I don't know everything that is in the mutual funds that I own and I have owned various Dodge & Cox funds.

Yes, Dr. Trump has some well researched medical advice for all of North America



Jeezus Titty Fucking Christ
Name the last president to give specific medication advice to the Greater populace

[Ibanez]

That Trump was invested in the drug manufacturer.

1. It was a mutual fund.
2. It's a generic drug. Anyone can make it. In fact, there is a report that a hospital is making it on their own for COVID treatment (which doesn't sound correct to me, but that's what the report said).

Trump pushed a drug that the medical experts say isn't good for the treatment of this virus. Then it comes out that he has a financial stake in the company that manufactures the drug.

Open your eyes, Shelby.

[Ibanez]

Here’s a more comprehensive write up. Maybe he just got the idea from Fox News and Elon Musk.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... p_Messages

Science, math, technology, English, history, common sense, ethics, monogamy, hubris are Trump’s Kryptonite.

FYP

[AZGrizFan]

That’s more like our old, irreverent Gil!

[AZGrizFan]

AZ & Flaggy...
racing down the rabbit hole defending an indefensible huckster
fascinating to watch otherwise intelligent people degrade themselves



please continue

Remember Obama and Afghanistan
That was a great example of watching True Believers defend the indefensible and fans of Obama admit he was making a huge mistake

Ask a simple question, get accused of “defending” someone. I’m serious.....do you know all the companies that are in your mutual funds?

[CAA Flagship]

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

You've been carrying way too much water these past 3 years to settle in on that defense
Like I said... Whatever helps you sleep

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

[AZGrizFan]

You've been carrying way too much water these past 3 years to settle in on that defense
Like I said... Whatever helps you sleep

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

NO!!! THAT CAN’T BE TRUE! YOU’RE A TRUMP APOLOGIST AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

[CAA Flagship]

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

NO!!! THAT CAN’T BE TRUE! YOU’RE A TRUMP APOLOGIST AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

[BDKJMU]

1. It was a mutual fund.
2. It's a generic drug. Anyone can make it. In fact, there is a report that a hospital is making it on their own for COVID treatment (which doesn't sound correct to me, but that's what the report said).

Trump pushed a drug that the medical experts say isn't good for the treatment of this virus. Then it comes out that he has a financial stake in the company that manufactures the drug.

Open your eyes, Shelby.

Link as to what medical experts have said "hydroxychloroquine isn't good for the treatment of this virus."

All I've seen is some have touted it's effect against the Chinese virus, and others (probably the majority) have exercised caution, said its anecdotal, and we need more study and proof.

[UNI88]

Science, math, technology, English, history, common sense, ethics, monogamy, hubris are Trump’s Kryptonite.

FYP

But Trump's yubris is yuge!

[kalm]

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

NO!!! THAT CAN’T BE TRUE! YOU’RE A TRUMP APOLOGIST AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

It’s not about defending Trump’s investments. It’s about defending his public statements.

So yes, apologist....

[Chizzang]

You've been carrying way too much water these past 3 years to settle in on that defense
Like I said... Whatever helps you sleep

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

This is SUPER convenient... and I enjoy it immensely (excellent) Thank you

Since you are steadfast "procedures guy"
What is the proper medical procedure for giving global advice on prescription medication application

you know... procedurally speaking with all due protocol in place ?

[89Hen]

Careful Flaggy, he's setting another trap.

[CAA Flagship]

Cereally? I'm not defending Trump. I'm asking about the procedure. Your bias sees this as defending Trump.
I'm asking how a POTUS is supposed to disclose things like this. Ivy made a minor attempt without considering all the other possibilities.

What is the source of these allegations? Was it through disclosure or not? Should more disclosure be done at a press conference? Has any other POTUS ever done this?

I'll take Ivy's word for it if he says that Trump has a duty to disclose in this situation. But I also get Flaggy and AZ's point. Is it reasonable for us to expect Trump to know everything that he owns a piece of? I don't know everything that is in the mutual funds that I own and I have owned various Dodge & Cox funds.

Again:
1. Has Trump not already disclosed? I don't know. How did this story come about? Was it disclosure? Should additional disclosure be done? Ivy hasn't answered this. I'd like to know.
2. Not knowing what's in a mutual fund is just a small part of the argument. The question is what should be done if you did know. Again, you could benefit on something in your portfolio by actions on their competitor(s). How can any of this be reconciled through disclosure?
3. As reported thus far, Trump has a very small stake in one of many companies that makes a drug that is cheap and has a very small influence on their company's earnings. So let's say this is no big deal. But what if it was an expensive drug that still has it's patents active? How should the disclosure be done? What if stock is owned in a 2nd company about to get approval to compete with the first company, and the POTUS announced that there is now a second drug about to hit the market to help with pricing through competition? What would be considered appropriate disclosure, legally and morally?

[GannonFan]

I struck a nerve with you “investment guys.” Let me repeat it for you slowly. Trump has daily press briefings about the virus, during several of which he’s spent time pushing this drug (while talking out of his ass on other stuff — thank God for Fauci and Bryx). He hasn’t mentioned his holdings in any of them.Members of the public, desperate for a cure, may well try this drug in reliance on their President’s recommendation. Folks who don’t have the time or skill to dredge up stuff that day traders like you do. The subject will certainly come up today. If he has any sense, he’ll address it and move on: using an argument similar to yours, perhaps. But he’ll probably just throw a hissy fit. The public deserves to know from the horse’s ass’s mouth.

Trump's public speaking abilities aside, why would he have to disclose something that is in a mutual fund that has already been disclosed (supposedly)? What about the Production Act where he can selectively choose certain companies to produce something that they normally don't produce? Should he disclose, in a press conference, that he has a stake in those companies? And if it will end up as a loss for those companies, should he disclose that he has a financial interest in their competitors?

I just see this as complete hysteria. He can make far more money in many other ways than through Sanofi. How much does he have invested in Tesla, Ford, 3M, etc., and their competitors? Also all the other companies that make hydroxychloroquine.

Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, a more tolerable formulation, are not approved to treat COVID-19. Still, U.S. authorities and others are exploring their potential following encouraging preliminary results.

In response, Novartis has pledged a global donation of up to 130 million hydroxychloroquine tablets, pending regulatory approvals for COVID-19. Mylan is ramping up production at its West Virginia Facility with enough supplies to make 50 million tablets. Teva is donating 16 million tablets to hospitals around the U.S. On Friday afternoon, Amneal pledged to make 20 million tablets by mid-April.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/new ... tablets-to

To take Flaggy's side here, if this was all an attempt by Trump to boost the performance of one of his mutual funds, which he disclosed in federal forms that he does own (so it's been out in the public sphere since he filed that form), wouldn't this be a rotten way to do it? Before all of this, Sanofi was one of the leading producers of the drug. If it does happen that this drug is effective, now all of these other companies are jumping into the game (as the drug is a generic and not really a big money maker anyway as a result) and Sanofi's share of the market for this drug is going to plummet as a result. So in some respects, he'd be screwing his own mutual fund holdings as a result.

[Chizzang]

Trump's public speaking abilities aside, why would he have to disclose something that is in a mutual fund that has already been disclosed (supposedly)? What about the Production Act where he can selectively choose certain companies to produce something that they normally don't produce? Should he disclose, in a press conference, that he has a stake in those companies? And if it will end up as a loss for those companies, should he disclose that he has a financial interest in their competitors?

I just see this as complete hysteria. He can make far more money in many other ways than through Sanofi. How much does he have invested in Tesla, Ford, 3M, etc., and their competitors? Also all the other companies that make hydroxychloroquine.



https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/new ... tablets-to

To take Flaggy's side here, if this was all an attempt by Trump to boost the performance of one of his mutual funds, which he disclosed in federal forms that he does own (so it's been out in the public sphere since he filed that form), wouldn't this be a rotten way to do it? Before all of this, Sanofi was one of the leading producers of the drug. If it does happen that this drug is effective, now all of these other companies are jumping into the game (as the drug is a generic and not really a big money maker anyway as a result) and Sanofi's share of the market for this drug is going to plummet as a result. So in some respects, he'd be screwing his own mutual fund holdings as a result.

The lost point in all this is astounding...
a non-doctor pedestrian, as well as the office of the president (who also is NOT a doctor)
should not be giving sketchy medical advice - it increases hysteria and leads to sketchy conclusions and empowers other non-doctors

and secondly
the sad fact that it is also a part of his portfolio only strengthens point 1 above

and thirdly
why would anybody waster one breath defending this action - on any grounds and for any reason..?

[CAA Flagship]

Nope. You are confusing me with others.
I've stated my political priorities many times (Safety, Liberty, Jobs being the leading factors, and #4 isn't close).
I'm policy driven and it just so happens that many of Trump's policies align with my priorities. But to say I'm a Trump fan would be missing the mark.

I'm not focused on Trump in this case. I'm focused on the proper procedure. I still don't have the answers as to what a POTUS should do in this situation.

Just like the people calling for a National Stay at Home order because Trump hasn't declared one. My stance to not declare one in this case is not about Trump, it's about the procedure. I believe it should be done state by state because this is a rolling problem. How does a POTUS undo a National Stay at Home order and when should it be done? It could be a terribly consequential message to undo a National order only to have some states then declare that they are just not ready yet.

This is SUPER convenient... and I enjoy it immensely (excellent) Thank you

Since you are steadfast "procedures guy"
What is the proper medical procedure for giving global advice on prescription medication application

you know... procedurally speaking with all due protocol in place ?

That's a good question. I didn't pay attention to the SARS or MERS stuff so I don't know if anything happened then. But the medical remedies were relatively easy and quicker than what we are facing now. Less mass fear and economic damage.

I guess, in my lifetime, HIV/AIDS is the closest example. But that wasn't as easily spread as COVID, but let's skip that detail for the moment. There were a lot of people freaking out over it in the 90's. Similar to today, there were a lot of people and resources working on the solution. For a long time, there wasn't one method of treatment better than another. Over time, some got ruled out and some stayed on the list of "worth a try". I gave up on following it in the mid 2000's and don't know where we stand at the moment. But leaders around the world, in the 90's, were trying to provide hope along the way. The only thing they could do though was announce more funding for research. But, for the most part, it's spread was behavioral and it did not shut down the economy. People that did not practice the most dangerous forms of behavior didn't worry too much.

So what's the proper procedure in this case? I don't know. But the general playbook for widespread fear seems to be for leaders to provide hope. Trump's a horrible messenger for this sort of thing. But he is doing it. Is it right? I don't know. Is it wrong? I don't know.

But that wasn't what I was asking questions about. It was about disclosure.

[93henfan]

Been a busy few weeks, so sorry if this was already covered.

Yeah, it's Breitbart, but if there's even a small shred of truth to this... HOLY SHIT!

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/04/ ... ple-alive/

Locals in Wuhan, where the Chinese coronavirus pandemic originated, have heard screams coming from funeral home furnaces, and some treated in hospitals say they saw workers put living coronavirus patients in body bags, Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported on Monday.

[Ibanez]

Trump pushed a drug that the medical experts say isn't good for the treatment of this virus. Then it comes out that he has a financial stake in the company that manufactures the drug.

Open your eyes, Shelby.

Link as to what medical experts have said "hydroxychloroquine isn't good for the treatment of this virus."

All I've seen is some have touted it's effect against the Chinese virus, and others (probably the majority) have exercised caution, said its anecdotal, and we need more study and proof.

Sorry. Unproven. It's effect is unproven. Unproven to be effective and everything at this point is purely anecdotal. A drug that has produced such severe side effects that it's administration has been discontinued. So yeah, let's push an unproven drug. That's sounds smart.

So Trump is ignoring the medical experts and is pushing an unproven drug, giving false hope to people and furthermore is peddling misinformation. That's a solid plan.