Coronavirus COVID-19

[BDKJMU]

Why is Kemp facing the universal 'How dare you open' wrath?

Oklahoma today opening barbershops, nail salons, etc..

Gov. Kevin Stitt (R) said during a press conference that hair salons, barbershops, spas, nail salons and pet groomers can begin opening on Friday for appointments only in the first phase of reopening. The businesses are required to follow social distancing and sanitation guidelines released by the state's Department of Commerce.

Other nonessential businesses will be permitted to reopen on May 1 as long as they follow the social distancing and sanitation guidelines.

Today Alaska opening barbershops, tattoo parlors, nail salons, tanning salons, tattoo parlors, etc..
https://www.ktoo.org/2020/04/22/watch-l ... s-economy/

From what I've seen, starting reopening:
-SC on Mon
-TN next Thur

GA was just the 1st domino of a flood of states with mostly conk govs..

[BDKJMU]

Not that anyone cares, since it only affects one person here (me), but Delaware schools are closed the rest of this academic year.

Is there any state that is going to open schools in May for less than a month?

[Ivytalk]

Not that anyone cares, since it only affects one person here (me), but Delaware schools are closed the rest of this academic year.

You expected any less from King Carney?

[kalm]

Why is Kemp facing the universal 'How dare you open' wrath?

Oklahoma today opening barbershops, nail salons, etc..

Gov. Kevin Stitt (R) said during a press conference that hair salons, barbershops, spas, nail salons and pet groomers can begin opening on Friday for appointments only in the first phase of reopening. The businesses are required to follow social distancing and sanitation guidelines released by the state's Department of Commerce.

Other nonessential businesses will be permitted to reopen on May 1 as long as they follow the social distancing and sanitation guidelines.

Today Alaska opening barbershops, tattoo parlors, nail salons, tanning salons, tattoo parlors, etc..
https://www.ktoo.org/2020/04/22/watch-l ... s-economy/

From what I've seen, starting reopening:
-SC on Mon
-TN next Thur

GA was just the 1st domino of a flood of states with mostly conk govs..

Wa State is reopening residential construction.

[89Hen]

See, that's funny.

[SDHornet]

This.

Sad to see Gannon buying into the hysteria that is going on with this Chinese Flu and turning into Gil2.0. I always had him as one of the more even keeled posters. Not sure how these studies about way more people having this isn't seen as good news, because the dead bodies aren't there to prove this is the killer it was hyped up to be.

If you are old and scared about getting this, stay the fuck inside and take precautions as needed (like you would during any other bad flu season). Everyone else should be allowed to get back to "normal" whilst taking commons sense precautions (masks, hygiene, etc).

Where do I exhibit hysteria? On the contrary, just being level-headed about this. Heck, I'm already on record that we should open up a lot more places, just with a lot of precautions in place (wearing masks, taking temperature checks, social distancing, reduced numbers in stores or restaurants, etc). I think we do need to talk about the reality of what's going on - this is a flu, but it's a flu that is highly contagious, more contagious than anything we've dealt with in at least a generation. And people with no symptoms, and even worse people that will never get a symptom, can get it and pass it on (hence why it's so contagious). And yes, older people, especially those with health issues, are really prone to having bad outcomes once they get it. And unfortunately, our country has a significant amount of people that fall into the high risk category. I do think we need to make it clear that those folks should do as little interacting as possible for the foreseeable future. I think that's just reality right now.

It came across as hysterical given the concern about protecting/isolating the 0.5% of people that are dying form this and how we "answer" that question. Addressing that problem and the Chinese Flu in general is pretty straight forward and simple from this point on in IMO.

[SDHornet]

[SDHornet]

Anyone saying I know what this is...I’ve got it all figured out...fuck it, open everything back up is idiotic. It literally makes you dumber than Trump.

Bless your heart Z!

The flip side is also true ...
Anyone saying we have to trust the scientists/doctors ...They’ve got it all figured out...fuck it, we have to ignore the psychological, sociological and economic toll and stay in lock down until they give the all clear is also idiotic. It literally makes them dumber than Trump.

Unfortunately there are still plenty of people pushing the "keep it all shutdown until there are zero deaths" narrative. It's amazing how people can't grasp the impacts on the economy/society pedaling that approach. I think it comes in second only to the "why are you choosing the economy over lives" narratives hurled at anyone recommending to open things back up.

[SDHornet]

I’ve seen very little of that posted through the economic lens so far. It’s ultimately a risk tolerance question which requires all of the above. All numbers should be questioned as we learn more about true threat potential but what z had offered up is .5% and it’s the flu. That’s getting close to willful ignorance level bs.

I’d think you agree that the economics and health threat shouldn’t be separated.

I posted an article yesterday on an economic study saying global poverty is going to see a dramatic increase due to this shut down.

[kalm]

I’ve seen very little of that posted through the economic lens so far. It’s ultimately a risk tolerance question which requires all of the above. All numbers should be questioned as we learn more about true threat potential but what z had offered up is .5% and it’s the flu. That’s getting close to willful ignorance level bs.

I’d think you agree that the economics and health threat shouldn’t be separated.

I posted an article yesterday on an economic study saying global poverty is going to see a dramatic increase due to this shut down.

Sorry I missed it. Which thread?

[SDHornet]

I posted an article yesterday on an economic study saying global poverty is going to see a dramatic increase due to this shut down.

Sorry I missed it. Which thread?

This one. Start from page one and keep going until you find it.

Edit: page 166, viewtopic.php?f=10&t=51325&start=4125

[kalm]

Sorry I missed it. Which thread?

This one. Start from page one and keep going until you find it.

No. Post it, bitch!

[SDHornet]

This one. Start from page one and keep going until you find it.

No. Post it, bitch!

Edited my post above.

And I figure that was worth a chuckle.

[grizzaholic]

[UNI88]

No. Post it, bitch!

Edited my post above.

And I figure that was worth a chuckle.

It was, that cracked me up.

[Gil Dobie]

[AZGrizFan]

Where do I exhibit hysteria? On the contrary, just being level-headed about this. Heck, I'm already on record that we should open up a lot more places, just with a lot of precautions in place (wearing masks, taking temperature checks, social distancing, reduced numbers in stores or restaurants, etc). I think we do need to talk about the reality of what's going on - this is a flu, but it's a flu that is highly contagious, more contagious than anything we've dealt with in at least a generation. And people with no symptoms, and even worse people that will never get a symptom, can get it and pass it on (hence why it's so contagious). And yes, older people, especially those with health issues, are really prone to having bad outcomes once they get it. And unfortunately, our country has a significant amount of people that fall into the high risk category. I do think we need to make it clear that those folks should do as little interacting as possible for the foreseeable future. I think that's just reality right now.

Pretty much. The book hasn’t been shut on what this is yet. It may be as benign as AZ suggests or it may come back with a vengeance of reinfections and/or strong outbreaks in the fall. A curative drug may be discovered sooner than we think. All of that is on the table.

The news media sensationalizes it like everything lending to hysteria but there are still WAY more smart people out there on the front lines of disease study and pharmacy who are pleading caution than those who aren’t. It’s one thing to blow off the soft sciences of political theory and economics as we all enjoy doing but this is a tine where the true experts are super important.

Anyone saying I know what this is...I’ve got it all figured out...fuck it, open everything back up is idiotic. It literally makes you dumber than Trump.

Bless your heart Z!

I've NEVER said it's "benign". I've said it's 50-80x more prevalent than first thought, which makes it 50-80x LESS deadly. There's a VERY high chance you'll get it. A very LOW chance you'll die from it. In fact, the vast majority of people who appear to have had it didn't even know. That is NOT the kind of thing you turn off a country for.

But thanks for putting words in my mouth, jagoff.

[Ivytalk]

The flip side is also true ...
Anyone saying we have to trust the scientists/doctors ...They’ve got it all figured out...fuck it, we have to ignore the psychological, sociological and economic toll and stay in lock down until they give the all clear is also idiotic. It literally makes them dumber than Trump.

Unfortunately there are still plenty of people pushing the "keep it all shutdown until there are zero deaths" narrative. It's amazing how people can't grasp the impacts on the economy/society pedaling that approach. I think it comes in second only to the "why are you choosing the economy over lives" narratives hurled at anyone recommending to open things back up.

Nailed it. People should be free to choose whether to assume the minimal risk or not.

[kalm]

Unfortunately there are still plenty of people pushing the "keep it all shutdown until there are zero deaths" narrative. It's amazing how people can't grasp the impacts on the economy/society pedaling that approach. I think it comes in second only to the "why are you choosing the economy over lives" narratives hurled at anyone recommending to open things back up.

Nailed it. People should be free to choose whether to assume the minimal risk or not.

As long as their actions don’t threaten the rights of others, correct?

[SDHornet]

Stanford doctor says what we've been saying here for almost a week now, because the data says so, protect the vulnerable and open things back up:

The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/ ... -isolation

[Ivytalk]

Nailed it. People should be free to choose whether to assume the minimal risk or not.

As long as their actions don’t threaten the rights of others, correct?

Define “threat.”

[UNI88]

Your arguments seem to give more weight to the scientists and doctors at the expense of the psychological, sociological and economic toll. You're opposed to what Z is saying and dismiss his arguments without consideration.

I see plenty of Facebook posts saying we have to listen to the scientists. The scientists and doctors such as Fauci have a limited understanding of psychology, sociology or economics and are not qualified to consider the impact of the virus and our response from those perspectives. People who say we have to listen to the scientists are essentially saying that we should ignore the psychological, sociological and economic toll.

I’m sorry if that’s how I’ve come off. I see the opposite in my social circles and it’s equally as dangerous. I’m looking forward to economic studies that weigh and balance the whole ball of wax with the best minds, data, and logic applied.

I’ve seen very little of that posted through the economic lens so far. It’s ultimately a risk tolerance question which requires all of the above. All numbers should be questioned as we learn more about true threat potential but what z had offered up is .5% and it’s the flu. That’s getting close to willful ignorance level bs.

I’d think you agree that the economics and health threat shouldn’t be separated.

We all know that Z is prone to hyperbole but that doesn't make his underlying questions/points any less valid. If we've underestimated the number of people who have been infected by a factor of 10 it's fair to ask if we're overreacting. No this isn't the flu, it's more contagious and deadly but if it is 1/10 as deadly it's a lot closer to the regular flu then it is to the Spanish Flu and we might be kicking ourselves down the road over the damage we did to the economy and people's lives.

And yes, I don't think the economics and health threat should be separated. They need to be considered together.

And Gil's meme about Doctor/Not Doctor demonstrates my earlier point - the underlying message of that meme is that we should trust doctors period. I've seen a lot of stuff like that and if I question them I get asked how many lives I'm willing to sacrifice for the economy.

[kalm]

As long as their actions don’t threaten the rights of others, correct?

Define “threat.”

Well in the current context let’s start with community spread of a pandemic that can effect another’s health or destroy an economy.

That’s the pickle. How do you define that and what tools do you use to establish the definition?

[Pwns]

So, let's check in on Sweden, the control group for shelter in place policies:



The MSM desperately want people in Sweden to start dying like flies in a freezer, but it' looking so far like their deaths are going to be on the higher side but not among the worst.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Nailed it. People should be free to choose whether to assume the minimal risk or not.

As long as their actions don’t threaten the rights of others, correct?

No

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