Michael Moore goes after renewable energy in new film

[Pwns]

Watch it free on Youtube if you're bored enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Good breakdown of the problem with renewable energy. The problem is that it goes off the rails some with the Malthusian stuff. Utterly pointless to talk about unless you want a China-esque forced abortion society or you want policy that will just lead to the suicide of the west while Muslims outbreed us all and take over the world.

[Chizzang]

The good news - if you're in your mid-50's like me is... I tried already
and now it's up to the next generation to figure out

I sincerely wish them the best
as they make my coffee for me

[HI54UNI]

Some of the typical things you would expect. Koch brothers are evil. We need population control. Glad to see them calling out biomass, biofuels, and algore. I chuckled at the environmental company Blood and Gore.

[Ivytalk]

Well, I guess Old Fatass needs to find something to do in the Rona Era.

[houndawg]

Some of the typical things you would expect. Koch brothers are evil. We need population control. Glad to see them calling out biomass, biofuels, and algore. I chuckled at the environmental company Blood and Gore.

No shit?

[JohnStOnge]

Watch it free on Youtube if you're bored enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Good breakdown of the problem with renewable energy. The problem is that it goes off the rails some with the Malthusian stuff. Utterly pointless to talk about unless you want a China-esque forced abortion society or you want policy that will just lead to the suicide of the west while Muslims outbreed us all and take over the world.

I just watched the very beginning where they asked how long they give Homo sapiens. I'd give it 50,000 years.

[HI54UNI]

Enviros are demanding that the film be taken down due to alleged falsehoods in the film.

[Chizzang]

Enviros are demanding that the film be taken down due to alleged falsehoods in the film.

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

[kalm]

Enviros are demanding that the film be taken down due to alleged falsehoods in the film.

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

Good point. I still have not seen any of his films....ever. Judging by the level of expertise and opinions on them over the years from conservatives there must a lot of hate watching.

[Pwns]

Watch it free on Youtube if you're bored enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Good breakdown of the problem with renewable energy. The problem is that it goes off the rails some with the Malthusian stuff. Utterly pointless to talk about unless you want a China-esque forced abortion society or you want policy that will just lead to the suicide of the west while Muslims outbreed us all and take over the world.

I just watched the very beginning where they asked how long they give Homo sapiens. I'd give it 50,000 years.

I think we'll be around for a long, long time. I think too many people don't realize there's a huge ocean of possibilities in between "life goes on no worse than today for millions of years" and "we all die of starvation or war".

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

Good point. I still have not seen any of his films....ever. Judging by the level of expertise and opinions on them over the years from conservatives there must a lot of hate watching.

Bowling for Columbine really was pretty decent. If you didn't know who made it was you wouldn't think he was a gun control zealot at all.

Capitalism: A Love Story was honestly pretty weak other than some points about the private prison system. Too many non-sequiturs and it just wasn't as thoughtful as BfC.

I have not seen Farenheit 9/11 or Farenheit 11/9. The latter one might be interesting, the former one, not interested.

[HI54UNI]

This is my first Moore film and I only watched it because it is related to energy issues. Moore is the producer but the film appears to be more the work of the director, Jeff Gibbs. It does draw attention to things like electric cars being predominantly powered by coal or natural gas generated electricity, the intermittency of wind and solar and the fossil fuel backup needed for it, the size of solar installations to be able to have any major impact on reducing CO2, and the impacts of mining to get the various inputs for the wind and solar panels. It also calls out the hypocrisy of guys like algore. The film is dishonest in that it claims there have been no CO2 reductions due to wind and solar and it using 8+ year old data when newer better examples exist.

[GannonFan]

Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

[kalm]

This is my first Moore film and I only watched it because it is related to energy issues. Moore is the producer but the film appears to be more the work of the director, Jeff Gibbs. It does draw attention to things like electric cars being predominantly powered by coal or natural gas generated electricity, the intermittency of wind and solar and the fossil fuel backup needed for it, the size of solar installations to be able to have any major impact on reducing CO2, and the impacts of mining to get the various inputs for the wind and solar panels. It also calls out the hypocrisy of guys like algore. The film is dishonest in that it claims there have been no CO2 reductions due to wind and solar and it using 8+ year old data when newer better examples exist.

Just had a solar evaluation done by a company called Solgen on our residence. It sounds good on paper with the tax credit, state buy back rates, etc. sounds good on paper but still skeptical.

Any thoughts?

[HI54UNI]

Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

Nuclear was mentioned a couple of times but only in passing. Nothing pro/con that I can recall.

[HI54UNI]

This is my first Moore film and I only watched it because it is related to energy issues. Moore is the producer but the film appears to be more the work of the director, Jeff Gibbs. It does draw attention to things like electric cars being predominantly powered by coal or natural gas generated electricity, the intermittency of wind and solar and the fossil fuel backup needed for it, the size of solar installations to be able to have any major impact on reducing CO2, and the impacts of mining to get the various inputs for the wind and solar panels. It also calls out the hypocrisy of guys like algore. The film is dishonest in that it claims there have been no CO2 reductions due to wind and solar and it using 8+ year old data when newer better examples exist.

Just had a solar evaluation done by a company called Solgen on our residence. It sounds good on paper with the tax credit, state buy back rates, etc. sounds good on paper but still skeptical.

Any thoughts?

Some initial questions-

1. What is your residential kWh rate?
2. What is the base/customer/meter charge?
3. What are the state laws/regulations or utility rules regarding excess energy produced and how you receive credit for those excess kWh?
4. Are you buying from a coop, utility district, investor owned utility?
5. Are the rules in #3 different depending on how you answer #4.

Here's why I ask some of these questions:

Residential rate is what you are offsetting. How easily can that rate be changed often depends on state law and type of utility. Same with the base/customer/meter charge. Say the utility is at $10 base charge and 10 cents per kWh today so you would offset a 10 cent/kWh with solar. But if the utility changes that to a $35 base charge and 6.5 cent energy it has a dramatic change on your payback. Similar situation with excess kWh generated. How is the excess credited? Carry forward indefinitely? Up to a year? A month? Or cash credit at a certain rate? How easily can any of those things be changed? Any state laws/rules allowing an installation to be grandfathered at current rules if rules change?

You can shoot me a PM if you want as well and we could discuss over email or the phone some time.

[GannonFan]

Just had a solar evaluation done by a company called Solgen on our residence. It sounds good on paper with the tax credit, state buy back rates, etc. sounds good on paper but still skeptical.

Any thoughts?

Some initial questions-

1. What is your residential kWh rate?
2. What is the base/customer/meter charge?
3. What is are the state laws/regulations or utility rules regarding excess energy produced and how you receive credit for those excess kWh?
4. Are you buying from a coop, utility district, investor owned utility?
5. Are the rules in #3 different depending on how you answer #4.

Here's why I ask some of these questions:

Residential rate is what you are offsetting. How easily can that rate be changed often depends on state law and type of utility. Same with the base/customer/meter charge. Say the utility is at $10 base charge and 10 cents per kWh today so you would offset a 10 cent/kWh with solar. But if the utility changes that to a $35 base charge and 6.5 cent energy it has a dramatic change on your payback. Similar situation with excess kWh generated. How is the excess credited? Carry forward indefinitely? Up to a year? A month? Or cash credit at a certain rate? How easily can any of those things be changed? Any state laws/rules allowing an installation to be grandfathered at current rules if rules change?

You can shoot me a PM if you want as well and we could discuss over email or the phone some time.

Darn that's complicated. And it reminds me too much of the electricity and magnetism section of Physics (the one you took after the comparatively much easier mechanic-based Physics). I always sucked in that.

[AZGrizFan]

somebody will have to watch it first...



over the decades he's alienated anybody with more than 2 brains cells

Good point. I still have not seen any of his films....ever. Judging by the level of expertise and opinions on them over the years from conservatives there must a lot of hate watching.

Me neither....another thing we have in common.

[CID1990]

Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

The future is nuclear. Completely nuclear.

How long it takes us to shrug off these unicorns and get to that future is the only uncertainty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GannonFan]

Does he promote nuclear energy as a real viable alternative? That would at least be a plus.

The future is nuclear. Completely nuclear.

How long it takes us to shrug off these unicorns and get to that future is the only uncertainty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So much fear-mongering from the greens over decades is going to be tough to overcome. Ironical that the people most committed to a clean environment did so much to get in our way of actually having a clean environment.

[Ivytalk]

I have to admit that I’ve never watched a complete Moore documentary. I get bored and/or pissed off after about 20 minutes.

[HI54UNI]

Some initial questions-

1. What is your residential kWh rate?
2. What is the base/customer/meter charge?
3. What is are the state laws/regulations or utility rules regarding excess energy produced and how you receive credit for those excess kWh?
4. Are you buying from a coop, utility district, investor owned utility?
5. Are the rules in #3 different depending on how you answer #4.

Here's why I ask some of these questions:

Residential rate is what you are offsetting. How easily can that rate be changed often depends on state law and type of utility. Same with the base/customer/meter charge. Say the utility is at $10 base charge and 10 cents per kWh today so you would offset a 10 cent/kWh with solar. But if the utility changes that to a $35 base charge and 6.5 cent energy it has a dramatic change on your payback. Similar situation with excess kWh generated. How is the excess credited? Carry forward indefinitely? Up to a year? A month? Or cash credit at a certain rate? How easily can any of those things be changed? Any state laws/rules allowing an installation to be grandfathered at current rules if rules change?

You can shoot me a PM if you want as well and we could discuss over email or the phone some time.

Darn that's complicated. And it reminds me too much of the electricity and magnetism section of Physics (the one you took after the comparatively much easier mechanic-based Physics). I always sucked in that.

It's really not that complicated. But the issue about rates and how excess is handled is important. If you install and bank on your current rates for your payback and the rate structure changes you may have screwed yourself. And how excess is handled is important because many solar installers oversize so you generate excess kWhs that you can bank for other times because that's the only way they can make the panels pencil out. For example Iowa just passed a law, with both the utilities and enviros supporting, that any excess you have at the end of the year you get paid half and the other half the utility has to pay to a low-income utility assistance fund. Existing people are grandfathered in for 20 years but any new installs have that as a rule. Trying to make solar installers right size. But the law only applies to investor owned utilities. It doesn't apply to municipal utilities or coops. So they can treat your excess how ever they want. The 13 munis I work with all have policies to pay avoided cost for excess or about 2 cents per kWh.

[AZGrizFan]

Darn that's complicated. And it reminds me too much of the electricity and magnetism section of Physics (the one you took after the comparatively much easier mechanic-based Physics). I always sucked in that.

It's really not that complicated. But the issue about rates and how excess is handled is important. If you install and bank on your current rates for your payback and the rate structure changes you may have screwed yourself. And how excess is handled is important because many solar installers oversize so you generate excess kWhs that you can bank for other times because that's the only way they can make the panels pencil out. For example Iowa just passed a law, with both the utilities and enviros supporting, that any excess you have at the end of the year you get paid half and the other half the utility has to pay to a low-income utility assistance fund. Existing people are grandfathered in for 20 years but any new installs have that as a rule. Trying to make solar installers right size. But the law only applies to investor owned utilities. It doesn't apply to municipal utilities or coops. So they can treat your excess how ever they want. The 13 munis I work with all have policies to pay avoided cost for excess or about 2 cents per kWh.

Damn. This place is awesome.