Poll: Do You Support Re-Opening Most of America?

[Winterborn]

He asked .02%, not 2%..

.02% would be 1 cookie out of 5,000...

2 of 100 cookies would be 2%.
2 of 1,000 cookies would be .2%
2 of 10,000 cookies would be .02%

My bad, but the question is still similar, would you eat a cookie if you knew 1 out of 5000 was poison, and would kill you?

Depends on what age group I was in.

[Ivytalk]

My bad, but the question is still similar, would you eat a cookie if you knew 1 out of 5000 was poison, and would kill you?

Depends on what age group I was in.

Good answer!

[Winterborn]

I’m using fear porn sarcastically in response to some using “crisis porn”.

There’s legit concerns for both.

We can’t print money forever but as I’ve mentioned before, CCC and WPA type projects are a no brainer for getting people back to work and reinjecting tax revenue especially on a local and state level.

History doesn’t repeat but it echoes. We’ve gone through economic crisis before and have come out the back end with profits from public investments.

We’re not talking years, we’re talking months or even weeks if we play it right and the health situation is massively reduced...quickly.

For the most part the people who could actually do those jobs are still working.

The ones that are laid off are retail or service industry. Those people wouldn't know what to do with a muck stick if it hit them in the back of the head, much less have the willingness to do that type of work. Unless you plan on withholding their unemployment benefits to get them to work?

[Gil Dobie]

I’m using fear porn sarcastically in response to some using “crisis porn”.

There’s legit concerns for both.

We can’t print money forever but as I’ve mentioned before, CCC and WPA type projects are a no brainer for getting people back to work and reinjecting tax revenue especially on a local and state level.

History doesn’t repeat but it echoes. We’ve gone through economic crisis before and have come out the back end with profits from public investments.

We’re not talking years, we’re talking months or even weeks if we play it right and the health situation is massively reduced...quickly.

For the most part the people who could actually do those jobs are still working.

The ones that are laid off are retail or service industry. Those people wouldn't know what to do with a muck stick if it hit them in the back of the head, much less have the willingness to do that type of work. Unless you plan on withholding their unemployment benefits to get them to work?

If we open up to much to soon and a second wave kicks in for June and July. We may lose even more small businesses due to a smaller customer base and extended self quarantine of many of their customers. I'm looking restaurants, as a lot of older people meet at them in groups. Specifically the 4pm crowd will be down.

[Winterborn]

For the most part the people who could actually do those jobs are still working.

The ones that are laid off are retail or service industry. Those people wouldn't know what to do with a muck stick if it hit them in the back of the head, much less have the willingness to do that type of work. Unless you plan on withholding their unemployment benefits to get them to work?

If we open up to much to soon and a second wave kicks in for June and July. We may lose even more small businesses due to a smaller customer base and extended self quarantine of many of their customers. I'm looking restaurants, as a lot of older people meet at them in groups. Specifically the 4pm crowd will be down.

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

[kalm]

I’m using fear porn sarcastically in response to some using “crisis porn”.

There’s legit concerns for both.

We can’t print money forever but as I’ve mentioned before, CCC and WPA type projects are a no brainer for getting people back to work and reinjecting tax revenue especially on a local and state level.

History doesn’t repeat but it echoes. We’ve gone through economic crisis before and have come out the back end with profits from public investments.

We’re not talking years, we’re talking months or even weeks if we play it right and the health situation is massively reduced...quickly.

For the most part the people who could actually do those jobs are still working.

The ones that are laid off are retail or service industry. Those people wouldn't know what to do with a muck stick if it hit them in the back of the head, much less have the willingness to do that type of work. Unless you plan on withholding their unemployment benefits to get them to work?

Yes

[Winterborn]

For the most part the people who could actually do those jobs are still working.

The ones that are laid off are retail or service industry. Those people wouldn't know what to do with a muck stick if it hit them in the back of the head, much less have the willingness to do that type of work. Unless you plan on withholding their unemployment benefits to get them to work?

Yes

From your lips to God's ears.

Ivy can correct me if I am wrong (or anybody else), but I do not think that is even legal under the current rules and there is zero incentive for Congress to change it. Look at how hard it is/was and the push back some states had when trying to put community service as part of the requirement for collecting unemployment. And that is just community service, hardly work on the scale of the CCC and WPA.

And I wish unemployment was tied to actually working/giving back to the community some how.

[kalm]

If we open up to much to soon and a second wave kicks in for June and July. We may lose even more small businesses due to a smaller customer base and extended self quarantine of many of their customers. I'm looking restaurants, as a lot of older people meet at them in groups. Specifically the 4pm crowd will be down.

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

We’re inching closer but there’s still much to learn before reopening. A few young, healthy people are still succumbing to it. It’s also weird how certain people (including some low-risk healthy) go from asymptomatic (0) to organ failure (60) by the 6th day or so) Maybe a blip but it may be a trend or mutation.

This guy has been providing some good info all along....

“The warping of the conversation about death tolls is problematic. People who warn of dire consequences get labeled fear mongers or worse. Some are accused of wanting to be right at all costs.

All this wrangling cheapens our losses. 2/
It wasn’t a month ago that the IHME, touted by Trump, released a 60,000 estimated death forecast. 3/
I participated in a conversation with the lead modeler and reported what I heard. At the time, even with the hope that Americans would #StayHome, the reasonable estimates of most models were 100,000-250,000, in some cases higher. In some cases much higher. 4/
IHME’s 60,000 declaration was a bomb let off by the White House. It sent a clear message— this virus is overblown hype. We got this. 60,000 is a number Americans can “tolerate.” It sounds vaguely like a bad flu. 5/
The president was quick to come out & claim success for this new number, even though his team had told him 100k-250k. We could have had over a million deaths, but now it will be 50-60k. 6/
For many governors & Trump supporters, it was all they needed to hear. 7/
In my estimation something the president gets wrong is the public’s tolerance for bad news. Bad news served up straight. Hope and plans are good but only when they are rooted in reality. 60k was another version of “gone by April” or “15 going to zero“..........................

“ So back in April I felt if we’re going to be overrun by a “new” model, I wanted to know what went into this model so I listened & put what I heard in an April 9 Twitter thread summarized in the attached. I will repeat what I heard here. 13/

Making Sense of the Various Coronavirus Death Toll Projections
The big conversation is around the 60,000 death toll model, so today I had confidential conversations with the modelers. I can share some of he details from my learnings without attribution. There is…

60,000 model assumes:
1-states without social distancing don’t have any outbreaks
2-no inter-state/international travel
3-The infection rate R0 goes below 1
4-There is no let up of social distancing
5-No state opens until they have <10 cases
6- It ends by August 14/
At the time the model was issued, as I probably too politely pointed out in the medium post, it was already wrong“

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1257 ... 63969.html

[Gil Dobie]

If we open up to much to soon and a second wave kicks in for June and July. We may lose even more small businesses due to a smaller customer base and extended self quarantine of many of their customers. I'm looking restaurants, as a lot of older people meet at them in groups. Specifically the 4pm crowd will be down.

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

I'm not saying we stay shut down. I'm saying we open cautiously, specifically in the densely populated area's. If we open too fast, and the number of deaths go back to 3000 per day, the government may tend to look at locking things down again.

[Winterborn]

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

We’re inching closer but there’s still much to learn before reopening. A few young, healthy people are still succumbing to it. It’s also weird how certain people (including some low-risk healthy) go from asymptomatic (0) to organ failure (60) by the 6th day or so) Maybe a blip but it may be a trend or mutation.

Much to learn, yes. But there are some clear trends that are known and can guide us.

And not weird at all, there are always outliers in any data set. Especially when you are talking about a data set that contains multi-million points. They get publicized more because "healthy" people passing away sells papers and is a good "news" headline.

[mainejeff]

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

I'm not saying we stay shut down. I'm saying we open cautiously, specifically in the densely populated area's. If we open too fast, and the number of deaths go back to 3000 per day, the government may tend to look at locking things down again.

This the USA, man.....it's all or nothing!

[Winterborn]

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO. It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

I'm not saying we stay shut down. I'm saying we open cautiously, specifically in the densely populated area's. If we open too fast, and the number of deaths go back to 3000 per day, the government may tend to look at locking things down again.

I am not saying you were (if I came across that way, it was not my intention) but there is a difference in opening cautiously (which I think we are doing now, albeit a bit late) and what some people's proposal of opening cautiously which is basically a "stay at home" indefinitely.

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not saying we stay shut down. I'm saying we open cautiously, specifically in the densely populated area's. If we open too fast, and the number of deaths go back to 3000 per day, the government may tend to look at locking things down again.

I am not saying you were (if I came across that way, it was not my intention) but there is a difference in opening cautiously (which I think we are doing now, albeit a bit late) and what some people's proposal of opening cautiously which is basically a "stay at home" indefinitely.

I get it, cautious is relative to the person speaking.

[Winterborn]

I am not saying you were (if I came across that way, it was not my intention) but there is a difference in opening cautiously (which I think we are doing now, albeit a bit late) and what some people's proposal of opening cautiously which is basically a "stay at home" indefinitely.

I get it, cautious is relative to the person speaking.

Semantics are important and should be the basis of any debate.

[89Hen]

This the USA, man.....it's all or nothing!

I hope you see the irony in that post.

[AZGrizFan]

I'm not saying we stay shut down. I'm saying we open cautiously, specifically in the densely populated area's. If we open too fast, and the number of deaths go back to 3000 per day, the government may tend to look at locking things down again.

This the USA, man.....it's all or nothing!

Yes, because that’s exactly what “reopening MOST OF AMERICA WITH PROPER PROTOCOLS” means.....

[dbackjon]

How was he a failure? Coming from someone that thinks Trump is a genius, this ought to be good.


So you are asking him to do MORE because he is black?

Please find the quote where I ever said Trump was a genius. Meanwhile, I’ll go copy the hundred or so posts where I say he’s a dipshit. But, like a good liberal, you’ll never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Please do - maybe you can also quote MAGAt's like Candace Owens, Aubrey Huff and Tomi Lehren...

[dbackjon]

No, if someone put 100 cookies on a table and said 2 are poison and will kill you, I would not take a cookie. I don't think COVID-19 is at .02 percent though.

It is if 150,000,000 already have it or have had it. And that’s what just about every large-scale study is showing.

Please link these so called large scale studies.

[AZGrizFan]

He asked .02%, not 2%..

.02% would be 1 cookie out of 5,000...

2 of 100 cookies would be 2%.
2 of 1,000 cookies would be .2%
2 of 10,000 cookies would be .02%

My bad, but the question is still similar, would you eat a cookie if you knew 1 out of 5000 was poison, and would kill you?

Gil, we do that shit every. Single. Day.

Every time you leave your house, there’s risk involved. Every time you get in an elevator. Every time you get fast food. Every time you go into a public place. Every time you plug something in. EVERYTHING involves an element of risk. If 2 of 100 cookies are poisoned, that’s one thing. If 2 of 10,000 are poisoned, I’m eating cookies all day long.

[AZGrizFan]

It is if 150,000,000 already have it or have had it. And that’s what just about every large-scale study is showing.

Please link these so called large scale studies.

Do your own googling. I’m tired of carrying your water trying to clear up your fucked up, echo chamber viewpoints.

[dbackjon]

Please link these so called large scale studies.

Do your own googling. I’m tired of carrying your water trying to clear up your fucked up, echo chamber viewpoints.

LMAO. Says the man that has moved into an echo chamber and spreads it around.


So in other words, you don't have any links, and are talking out your ass.

Maybe you will pull out the now discredited Stanford Study, not realizing you are using a study that is horridly flawed, but MAGAts are treating it like Gospel because it reinforces what they WANT to hear.

[AZGrizFan]

Do your own googling. I’m tired of carrying your water trying to clear up your fucked up, echo chamber viewpoints.

LMAO. Says the man that has moved into an echo chamber and spreads it around.


So in other words, you don't have any links, and are talking out your ass.

Maybe you will pull out the now discredited Stanford Study, not realizing you are using a study that is horridly flawed, but MAGAts are treating it like Gospel because it reinforces what they WANT to hear.

Jon, there are all kinds of links out there, even some from your favorite news sources, that validate the studies (growing in number) that ALL show the same thing: this thing is much more prevalent than originally thought.....50-80x more prevalent. Which makes it 50-80x LESS deadly.

But you’d rather hang YOUR hat on one horribly flawed model that pedals fear porn because it reinforces what YOU want to hear.

You do you. Hide in your fucking basement if you want to. I’m ready to go back to work.

[houndawg]

If we open up to much to soon and a second wave kicks in for June and July. We may lose even more small businesses due to a smaller customer base and extended self quarantine of many of their customers. I'm looking restaurants, as a lot of older people meet at them in groups. Specifically the 4pm crowd will be down.

There will be a second, third, and etc. wave. This is not a one and done, nor a two and done. We will loose those small business if we stay shut down. In fact we will loose much more than those small business if we stay shut down much longer. That is the real economic hit.

If you are in a high risk age group, stay home. Those of us that are not, our task is to keep the economy running. A one size stay at home order, even a state by state one is not the right fit, IMHO.It will have to be done by risk factor and that is going to annoy people because they think they are being singled out and "discriminated" against. There are very clear age/risk factors that are know on this virus, let us use that to open up for those people that are not affected.

You're forgetting the part that asympyomatic carriers play. Until we get accurate testing in very large numbers we're just swinging at a pinata.

[houndawg]

LMAO. Says the man that has moved into an echo chamber and spreads it around.


So in other words, you don't have any links, and are talking out your ass.

Maybe you will pull out the now discredited Stanford Study, not realizing you are using a study that is horridly flawed, but MAGAts are treating it like Gospel because it reinforces what they WANT to hear.

Jon, there are all kinds of links out there, even some from your favorite news sources, that validate the studies (growing in number) that ALL show the same thing: this thing is much more prevalent than originally thought.....50-80x more prevalent. Which makes it 50-80x LESS deadly.

But you’d rather hang YOUR hat on one horribly flawed model that pedals fear porn because it reinforces what YOU want to hear.

You do you. Hide in your fucking basement if you want to. I’m ready to go back to work.

Not exactly - it depends on how many deaths from other causes were aggravated by the virus. Now that they know it isn't only attacking respiratory systems we may have underestimated the number of deaths.

And fer chrissakes wear a mask.

[Gil Dobie]

My bad, but the question is still similar, would you eat a cookie if you knew 1 out of 5000 was poison, and would kill you?

Gil, we do that shit every. Single. Day.

Every time you leave your house, there’s risk involved. Every time you get in an elevator. Every time you get fast food. Every time you go into a public place. Every time you plug something in. EVERYTHING involves an element of risk. If 2 of 100 cookies are poisoned, that’s one thing. If 2 of 10,000 are poisoned, I’m eating cookies all day long.

It's apples and oranges. We can do something to stop the spread of this virus.

So if you had 10,000 cookies, and had 10,000 people to give them to, would you give them away, knowing 2 people would die?