Coronavirus COVID-19

[UNI88]

How depressing. Look at two months ago and how we well the country was doing in getting a handle on the situation, then a month later (after everyone decided to open and stop caring), it goes up significantly...and now a month after that it's even worse.

Virginia opens up to Phase 3 tomorrow...indoor gatherings up to 1000 people are allowed.

I'm terrified (we've been trending slightly upwards recently). I feel like all the sacrifice is about to go down the drain.

Ugh. That’s just wanton stupidity at this point.

The Spokesman Review ran an article Sunday that many of the new cases are untraceable suggesting community spread here.

We so deserve what we’re getting.

It is stupidity. I don't think opening things up is nearly as significant as big a factor as people thinking that they no longer need to wear masks or physical distance. We can open things up if we're smart about it but we refuse to be smart. Oregon is requiring masks indoors in public places in 7 counties.

[kalm]

Ugh. That’s just wanton stupidity at this point.

The Spokesman Review ran an article Sunday that many of the new cases are untraceable suggesting community spread here.

We so deserve what we’re getting.

It is stupidity. I don't think opening things up is nearly as significant as big a factor as people thinking that they no longer need to wear masks or physical distance. We can open things up if we're smart about it but we refuse to be smart. Oregon is requiring masks indoors in public places in 7 counties.

Yes...but not enough of us are smart and human nature is to high five, shake hands, hug, and be social for more than 5 minutes.

[CID1990]

Wait are we back to giving a fuck about large congregations of people again?


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[∞∞∞]

It's official: Americans are banned from travelling through the EU (except for EU citizens/residents).

[GannonFan]

It is stupidity. I don't think opening things up is nearly as significant as big a factor as people thinking that they no longer need to wear masks or physical distance. We can open things up if we're smart about it but we refuse to be smart. Oregon is requiring masks indoors in public places in 7 counties.

Yes...but not enough of us are smart and human nature is to high five, shake hands, hug, and be social for more than 5 minutes.

Well, at some point we're going to have to be. We keep thinking there's a miracle vaccine coming in just a few months, but the reality is we'll likely not have a full-proof vaccine for possibly years, if ever. We haven't done a very good job of messaging that and we haven't done a good job of being clear with what's needed: wear masks in inside public spaces and when you can't be 6 ft apart outside, wash your hands frequently, avoid large gatherings, especially those you can't maintain 6 ft. For the elderly, basically over 60 for this discussion, take even more precautions and limit interactions. We've known these things since mid April, and yet politicians at every level, even now, are still fumbling it. When we don't have faith in politicians (and for good reason) then we are skeptical of what they say and why they say it. CID's said it before, politics in this country are beyond poisonous at this point, and we're paying the price for it.

[∞∞∞]

Yes...but not enough of us are smart and human nature is to high five, shake hands, hug, and be social for more than 5 minutes.

Well, at some point we're going to have to be. We keep thinking there's a miracle vaccine coming in just a few months, but the reality is we'll likely not have a full-proof vaccine for possibly years, if ever. We haven't done a very good job of messaging that and we haven't done a good job of being clear with what's needed: wear masks in inside public spaces and when you can't be 6 ft apart outside, wash your hands frequently, avoid large gatherings, especially those you can't maintain 6 ft. For the elderly, basically over 60 for this discussion, take even more precautions and limit interactions. We've known these things since mid April, and yet politicians at every level, even now, are still fumbling it. When we don't have faith in politicians (and for good reason) then we are skeptical of what they say and why they say it. CID's said it before, politics in this country are beyond poisonous at this point, and we're paying the price for it.

Dude, two of my managers (Trumpers) STILL don't think it's a big deal..."just like the flu."

It's why we're at the office...even though two months of WFH proved we don't need to be near each other. Workers like myself all wear masks for 8 hours a day; guess what the managers don't do. I said it elsewhere, but I'm resigned to getting it at this point. If they don't give a sh*t in a professional environment, I'm pretty sure it's worse outside of work. Guess what they'll pick up and bring into the office?

[GannonFan]

Well, at some point we're going to have to be. We keep thinking there's a miracle vaccine coming in just a few months, but the reality is we'll likely not have a full-proof vaccine for possibly years, if ever. We haven't done a very good job of messaging that and we haven't done a good job of being clear with what's needed: wear masks in inside public spaces and when you can't be 6 ft apart outside, wash your hands frequently, avoid large gatherings, especially those you can't maintain 6 ft. For the elderly, basically over 60 for this discussion, take even more precautions and limit interactions. We've known these things since mid April, and yet politicians at every level, even now, are still fumbling it. When we don't have faith in politicians (and for good reason) then we are skeptical of what they say and why they say it. CID's said it before, politics in this country are beyond poisonous at this point, and we're paying the price for it.

Dude, two of my managers (Trumpers) STILL don't think it's a big deal..."just like the flu."

It's why we're at the office...even though two months of WFH proved we don't need to be near each other. The workers like myself all wear masks for 8 hours a day; guess what the managers don't do. I said it elsewhere, but I'm resigned to getting it at this point. If they don't give a sh*t in a professional environment, I'm pretty sure it's worse outside of work. And guess what they'll pick up and bring into the office?

We have 60+ people in the plant where I work - we've been here from the get go (never closed up) and only sent the 3 sales-related folks home for WFH and we've been fine. Follow the protocols, and it's all good. Other than a contractor potentially being exposed to it by his wife, who got it from the doctor's office where she worked, that's the closest we've come to an issue with this. Of the roughly 10-15 plants the company has throughout the NAFTA region, there's only been a handful of cases. It's easy to not get COVID, just have to follow the protocols. Like I said, we could've opened everything up in April, assuming people follow the protocols. When the messaging gets garbled (and Trump is just one of many politicians who have bungled this, he's just the most visible and the one in the highest office - politicians on all sides of the aisle have blown this so far) then people aren't going to get it right.

[Gil Dobie]

We have 60+ people in the plant where I work - we've been here from the get go (never closed up) and only sent the 3 sales-related folks home for WFH and we've been fine. Follow the protocols, and it's all good. Other than a contractor potentially being exposed to it by his wife, who got it from the doctor's office where she worked, that's the closest we've come to an issue with this. Of the roughly 10-15 plants the company has throughout the NAFTA region, there's only been a handful of cases. It's easy to not get COVID, just have to follow the protocols. Like I said, we could've opened everything up in April, assuming people follow the protocols. When the messaging gets garbled (and Trump is just one of many politicians who have bungled this, he's just the most visible and the one in the highest office - politicians on all sides of the aisle have blown this so far) then people aren't going to get it right.

Follow the recommended protocols appear to be working for your company. If everyone followed them, the government would not be bringing back lock downs.

[Baldy]

Wait are we back to giving a fuck about large congregations of people again?


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Only if those large groups are heading to the beach, picnics, fireworks, etc.

If the large groups are in the streets protesting and rioting, it's all good. Apparently, the virus can tell the difference.

[GannonFan]

We have 60+ people in the plant where I work - we've been here from the get go (never closed up) and only sent the 3 sales-related folks home for WFH and we've been fine. Follow the protocols, and it's all good. Other than a contractor potentially being exposed to it by his wife, who got it from the doctor's office where she worked, that's the closest we've come to an issue with this. Of the roughly 10-15 plants the company has throughout the NAFTA region, there's only been a handful of cases. It's easy to not get COVID, just have to follow the protocols. Like I said, we could've opened everything up in April, assuming people follow the protocols. When the messaging gets garbled (and Trump is just one of many politicians who have bungled this, he's just the most visible and the one in the highest office - politicians on all sides of the aisle have blown this so far) then people aren't going to get it right.

Follow the recommended protocols appear to be working for your company. If everyone followed them, the government would not be bringing back lock downs.

I agree, but I'd also argue that governments have messed this up - weren't consistent about the threat from the start, weren't consistent about the masks, lockdowns were much too varied (lockdown or no), weren't evenly applied (state to state, and even inside just one state, the decisions weren't clear), lockdowns went on far too long in some places, undermining the rationale for them and then undermining recommendations that came from the same governments afterwards, etc. Throw in the GOP vs Dem clashes that also permeated these decisions and it's been an absolute mess. And the media has been gleefully on the side, more than happy to help push whatever agenda for whatever political leaning they favor. I've seen what a level-headed, consistent approach as done, as at my place of business. But level-headed and consistent is not what we've seen, from the White House down to the most local levels (although I'd argue the closer you get to local the better it's been - but that's pretty much always the case through most things).

[kalm]

Follow the recommended protocols appear to be working for your company. If everyone followed them, the government would not be bringing back lock downs.

I agree, but I'd also argue that governments have messed this up - weren't consistent about the threat from the start, weren't consistent about the masks, lockdowns were much too varied (lockdown or no), weren't evenly applied (state to state, and even inside just one state, the decisions weren't clear), lockdowns went on far too long in some places, undermining the rationale for them and then undermining recommendations that came from the same governments afterwards, etc. Throw in the GOP vs Dem clashes that also permeated these decisions and it's been an absolute mess. And the media has been gleefully on the side, more than happy to help push whatever agenda for whatever political leaning they favor. I've seen what a level-headed, consistent approach as done, as at my place of business. But level-headed and consistent is not what we've seen, from the White House down to the most local levels (although I'd argue the closer you get to local the better it's been - but that's pretty much always the case through most things).

Yep. Much of it is also a cultural/selfishness issue. Freeastern Washington ain’t wearing no masks and are going to bars and beaches whereas the west side is far more compliant. There are bars restaurants in Missoula voluntarily shutting down.

Freedom ain’t free...or something like that I guess.

[AZGrizFan]

Wait are we back to giving a fuck about large congregations of people again?


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Only if those large groups are heading to the beach, picnics, fireworks, etc.

If the large groups are in the streets protesting and rioting, it's all good. Apparently, the virus can tell the difference.

It’s smarter than the rioters.

[UNI88]

I agree, but I'd also argue that governments have messed this up - weren't consistent about the threat from the start, weren't consistent about the masks, lockdowns were much too varied (lockdown or no), weren't evenly applied (state to state, and even inside just one state, the decisions weren't clear), lockdowns went on far too long in some places, undermining the rationale for them and then undermining recommendations that came from the same governments afterwards, etc. Throw in the GOP vs Dem clashes that also permeated these decisions and it's been an absolute mess. And the media has been gleefully on the side, more than happy to help push whatever agenda for whatever political leaning they favor. I've seen what a level-headed, consistent approach as done, as at my place of business. But level-headed and consistent is not what we've seen, from the White House down to the most local levels (although I'd argue the closer you get to local the better it's been - but that's pretty much always the case through most things).

Yep. Much of it is also a cultural/selfishness issue. Freeastern Washington ain’t wearing no masks and are going to bars and beaches whereas the west side is far more compliant. There are bars restaurants in Missoula voluntarily shutting down.

Freedom ain’t free...or something like that I guess.

Good leadership can mitigate cultural issues. Unfortunately, leadership has been lacking on both sides.

It's pretty easy to see that there will be another shutdown if cases/hospitalizations/deaths increase. Even if I'm selfish I would rather wear a mask indoors and avoid large gatherings then have that happen.

[SeattleGriz]

Sister is already out of the hospital from COVID. Don't know what they gave her, but as long as her temp stays down she can stay home.

[∞∞∞]

Good luck to her SG.

I was to be escorted for a survey at a fire station tomorrow. Just got a call that the escort tested positive for the 'rona and the fire station is being shut down to be cleaned. Obviously the survey is cancelled.

[kalm]

Sister is already out of the hospital from COVID. Don't know what they gave her, but as long as her temp stays down she can stay home.

Great news!

[BDKJMU]

Laugh all you want, but at least we give a sh*t about each other and America. I'm resigned to getting it at this point (back in the office with three conservative managers who thinks it's NBD, don't wear a mask indoors, get close to you, and God only knows how they act outside work), but I'll be damned if I don't do my best not giving it to loved ones and breaking the chain of transmission.

This will end one day and it'd be nice to get it over with sooner than later. Unlike your snowflake soul who apparently needs human interaction at closer than 6 feet while being indoors, we can suck up being outside at a safe distance when around a bunch of people.

I wouldn’t be so fast with that, Trip. Here’s another reason why the “fuck it let’s all just get it and be over it” crowd is mistaken...

“Neurological, respiratory, immune system, and clotting and damage to the kidney, pancreas and lungs have all been experienced.
As the virus spreads more people will become ill and more will survive. We should take advantage of the time to increase our understanding.
Many more people will get COVID and not require hospitalization— by the end of the Summer, it could total 15% of the population.
Some number of these people, even if they didn’t experience symptoms, will find the virus has stayed in their system causing new or nagging sensations. With SARS-Cov-1, chronic fatigue & mental health disorders are still a problem with 40% of people who have recovered.”

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277 ... 299908.htm

Lol its probably already 30%-40% of the population.

[SeattleGriz]

Gotta give props to where I live. Even though we are only 10 miles from the Nursing home that was supposedly the epicenter when this all started, everyone has been pretty good about face masks and social distancing. Not to mention our stores did great - very small selection was ever out of stock.

And now today, I was driving by Main street and it was closed so all the restaurants could put sun coverings in the street for outdoor seating. Hell, they should do that every year in my opinion.

All in all, everyone has been pretty accommodating and is working together.

[kalm]

Gotta give props to where I live. Even though we are only 10 miles from the Nursing home that was supposedly the epicenter when this all started, everyone has been pretty good about face masks and social distancing. Not to mention our stores did great - very small selection was ever out of stock.

And now today, I was driving by Main street and it was closed so all the restaurants could put sun coverings in the street for outdoor seating. Hell, they should do that every year in my opinion.

All in all, everyone has been pretty accommodating and is working together.

That’s excellent! I wish it was same over here.

[kalm]

I wouldn’t be so fast with that, Trip. Here’s another reason why the “fuck it let’s all just get it and be over it” crowd is mistaken...

“Neurological, respiratory, immune system, and clotting and damage to the kidney, pancreas and lungs have all been experienced.
As the virus spreads more people will become ill and more will survive. We should take advantage of the time to increase our understanding.
Many more people will get COVID and not require hospitalization— by the end of the Summer, it could total 15% of the population.
Some number of these people, even if they didn’t experience symptoms, will find the virus has stayed in their system causing new or nagging sensations. With SARS-Cov-1, chronic fatigue & mental health disorders are still a problem with 40% of people who have recovered.”

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277 ... 299908.htm

Lol its probably already 30%-40% of the population.

Link?

[AZGrizFan]

Lol its probably already 30%-40% of the population.

Link?

Dude. There’s approaching dozens of studies out there now. Every single one comes up with a number 10-50x the ACTUAL # of reported cases if you extrapolate their results over the population. The latest was the Penn State study. https://news.psu.edu/story/623797/2020/ ... originally

[AZGrizFan]

3-day moving average for daily deaths in the US from COVID-19:

4/16 - 2524
4/23 - 2520
4/30 - 2418
5/7 - 2383
5/14 - 1853
5/21 - 1482
5/28 - 1345
6/4 - 1100
6/11 - 1007
6/18 - 812
6/25- 781

Not a SINGLE measurement increased from the peak 3-day average on 4/16. 11 straight weeks of declining death rate. Despite the reopenings. Despite the riots/protests. Despite the political rallies.

Raw deaths continue to decline
The 3-day average continues to decline
The 7-day average continues to decline

Literally the ONLY metric that’s going up is new cases. The low point for the 3-day moving average of new cases was June 9th. The metric stood at 19,107, and hadn’t been that low since March 25th. That was the inflection point where the 3-day moving average began climbing. (Presumably from two solid weeks of riots and protests across the country). But that was TWENTY THREE DAYS ago. Not just one week. Not even just two weeks. Hell, not even THREE weeks ago. But 23 DAYS ago. We should have started seeing increases in the death count 10 days ago, at a minimum. But instead, what did we have Sunday? The lowest Sunday dearth count since March 22nd.

At my place of employment we’ve had 23 confirmed cases of COVID-19. Almost all in otherwise healthy individuals aged 55 or less. We’re 23-0, with nary a single hospitalization. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS when healthy people go back to work. They’re going to get exposed, get a little sick, get over it, and go back to work again. That’s why I believe cases are going up, but deaths aren’t. Those at most risk are taking necessary precautions, and those at much less risk are going back to work (until the fear mongers shut down states again, I suppose).

Another factor is this: the more virulent strain kills its host, and then dies with it. The less virulent strain does NOT kill it’s host is is thus spread more prevalently, beginning to act more and more like the common flu. I believe that’s what we’re seeing now....the transformation of this virus into something significantly less lethal than it was originally.

And finally, one could argue that the most at-risk members of our society were already exposed in the early stages and died. Now that we have a better understanding of who/what it attacks, we’re able to take precautions to avoid a repeat of that (you know, like requiring nursing homes to take COVID patients — Thanks, Cuomo...).

Now, this is all pure conjecture (well, except the data part). I’m not a doctor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night....

[AZGrizFan]

Follow the recommended protocols appear to be working for your company. If everyone followed them, the government would not be bringing back lock downs.

I agree, but I'd also argue that governments have messed this up - weren't consistent about the threat from the start, weren't consistent about the masks, lockdowns were much too varied (lockdown or no), weren't evenly applied (state to state, and even inside just one state, the decisions weren't clear), lockdowns went on far too long in some places, undermining the rationale for them and then undermining recommendations that came from the same governments afterwards, etc. Throw in the GOP vs Dem clashes that also permeated these decisions and it's been an absolute mess. And the media has been gleefully on the side, more than happy to help push whatever agenda for whatever political leaning they favor. I've seen what a level-headed, consistent approach as done, as at my place of business. But level-headed and consistent is not what we've seen, from the White House down to the most local levels (although I'd argue the closer you get to local the better it's been - but that's pretty much always the case through most things).

I do find it funny when people talk about “governments messed up their approach” to COVID. FFS people, have you NEVER worked with a government entity before? “Fucking things up” is what they DO. As a whole, at their best they are the least effective, most inefficient, incapable, barely functioning assembly of warm bodies on the planet. To expect some sort of Hallmark Movie miracle out of a government department is living proof most people simply do not live in the real world. And it’s why I REALLY laugh when people like Trip want MORE government, and government control of things like healthcare, etc.

[kalm]

3-day moving average for daily deaths in the US from COVID-19:

4/16 - 2524
4/23 - 2520
4/30 - 2418
5/7 - 2383
5/14 - 1853
5/21 - 1482
5/28 - 1345
6/4 - 1100
6/11 - 1007
6/18 - 812
6/25- 781

Not a SINGLE measurement increased from the peak 3-day average on 4/16. 11 straight weeks of declining death rate. Despite the reopenings. Despite the riots/protests. Despite the political rallies.

Raw deaths continue to decline
The 3-day average continues to decline
The 7-day average continues to decline

Literally the ONLY metric that’s going up is new cases. The low point for the 3-day moving average of new cases was June 9th. The metric stood at 19,107, and hadn’t been that low since March 25th. That was the inflection point where the 3-day moving average began climbing. (Presumably from two solid weeks of riots and protests across the country). But that was TWENTY THREE DAYS ago. Not just one week. Not even just two weeks. Hell, not even THREE weeks ago. But 23 DAYS ago. We should have started seeing increases in the death count 10 days ago, at a minimum. But instead, what did we have Sunday? The lowest Sunday dearth count since March 22nd.

At my place of employment we’ve had 23 confirmed cases of COVID-19. Almost all in otherwise healthy individuals aged 55 or less. We’re 23-0, with nary a single hospitalization. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS when healthy people go back to work. They’re going to get exposed, get a little sick, get over it, and go back to work again. That’s why I believe cases are going up, but deaths aren’t. Those at most risk are taking necessary precautions, and those at much less risk are going back to work (until the fear mongers shut down states again, I suppose).

Another factor is this: the more virulent strain kills its host, and then dies with it. The less virulent strain does NOT kill it’s host is is thus spread more prevalently, beginning to act more and more like the common flu. I believe that’s what we’re seeing now....the transformation of this virus into something significantly less lethal than it was originally.

And finally, one could argue that the most at-risk members of our society were already exposed in the early stages and died. Now that we have a better understanding of who/what it attacks, we’re able to take precautions to avoid a repeat of that (you know, like requiring nursing homes to take COVID patients — Thanks, Cuomo...).

Now, this is all pure conjecture (well, except the data part). I’m not a doctor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night....

I hope we’re past peak too but much of that is due to voluntary and mandated lockdowns, as well as improved tracing and therapeutic measures. The other thing to keep an eye on is long term health issues.

Get the hospitalizations and deaths down to a more manageable number and the rollercoaster will be less of a thrill ride.

[AZGrizFan]

3-day moving average for daily deaths in the US from COVID-19:

4/16 - 2524
4/23 - 2520
4/30 - 2418
5/7 - 2383
5/14 - 1853
5/21 - 1482
5/28 - 1345
6/4 - 1100
6/11 - 1007
6/18 - 812
6/25- 781

Not a SINGLE measurement increased from the peak 3-day average on 4/16. 11 straight weeks of declining death rate. Despite the reopenings. Despite the riots/protests. Despite the political rallies.

Raw deaths continue to decline
The 3-day average continues to decline
The 7-day average continues to decline

Literally the ONLY metric that’s going up is new cases. The low point for the 3-day moving average of new cases was June 9th. The metric stood at 19,107, and hadn’t been that low since March 25th. That was the inflection point where the 3-day moving average began climbing. (Presumably from two solid weeks of riots and protests across the country). But that was TWENTY THREE DAYS ago. Not just one week. Not even just two weeks. Hell, not even THREE weeks ago. But 23 DAYS ago. We should have started seeing increases in the death count 10 days ago, at a minimum. But instead, what did we have Sunday? The lowest Sunday dearth count since March 22nd.

At my place of employment we’ve had 23 confirmed cases of COVID-19. Almost all in otherwise healthy individuals aged 55 or less. We’re 23-0, with nary a single hospitalization. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS when healthy people go back to work. They’re going to get exposed, get a little sick, get over it, and go back to work again. That’s why I believe cases are going up, but deaths aren’t. Those at most risk are taking necessary precautions, and those at much less risk are going back to work (until the fear mongers shut down states again, I suppose).

Another factor is this: the more virulent strain kills its host, and then dies with it. The less virulent strain does NOT kill it’s host is is thus spread more prevalently, beginning to act more and more like the common flu. I believe that’s what we’re seeing now....the transformation of this virus into something significantly less lethal than it was originally.

And finally, one could argue that the most at-risk members of our society were already exposed in the early stages and died. Now that we have a better understanding of who/what it attacks, we’re able to take precautions to avoid a repeat of that (you know, like requiring nursing homes to take COVID patients — Thanks, Cuomo...).

Now, this is all pure conjecture (well, except the data part). I’m not a doctor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night....

I hope we’re past peak too but much of that is due to voluntary and mandated lockdowns, as well as improved tracing and therapeutic measures. The other thing to keep an eye on is long term health issues.

Get the hospitalizations and deaths down to a more manageable number and the rollercoaster will be less of a thrill ride.

Hospitalizations and deaths ARE down, and ARE manageable. EVERY metric tells us that. The only ones who don’t are the fear porn peddlers in the MSM and government.