Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

[UNHWildCats]

This saddens me so much.




Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, the sluggers who propelled the Boston Red Sox to end an 86-year World Series championship drought and to capture another title three years later, were among the roughly 100 Major League Baseball players to test positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the results.

Some of baseball’s most cherished storylines of the past decade have been tainted by performance-enhancing drugs, including the accomplishments of record-setting home run hitters and dominating pitchers. Now, players with Boston’s championship teams of 2004 and 2007 have also been linked to doping.

Baseball first tested for steroids in 2003, and the results from that season were supposed to remain anonymous. But for reasons that have never been made clear, the results were never destroyed and the first batch of positives has come to be known among fans and people in baseball as “the list.” The information was later seized by federal agents investigating the distribution of performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes, and the test results remain the subject of litigation between the baseball players union and the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sp...gewanted=print

[danefan]

Why does it sadden you? Everyone did it. Didn't cheapen the entertainment value of the games during that time for me. So I don't really care what they did.

[Grizalltheway]

World Champs, 2004*, 2007*

[UNHWildCats]

World Champs, 2004*, 2007*

New York 1996* 1998* 1999* 2000*
Florida 1997* 2003*
Arizona 2001*
Anaheim 2002*
Boston 2004*
Chicago 2005*

None of those championships are clean.

Bostons in 2007, plus St Louis and Philadelphia maybe because testing was in place and players would have been suspended if they were still doing it.

[JoltinJoe]

World Champs, 2004*, 2007*

New York 1996* 1998* 1999* 2000*
Florida 1997* 2003*
Arizona 2001*
Anaheim 2002*
Boston 2004*
Chicago 2005*

None of those championships are clean.

Bostons in 2007, plus St Louis and Philadelphia maybe because testing was in place and players would have been suspended if they were still doing it.

The Yankees team in 1996 and 1998 are clean, and on the 1999 roster, only Clemens has been linked -- and it is said that he specifically was not on the juice in '99 (and it showed, he was horrible in 1999).

Don't throw the Yankees of the last 1990s in with juicers. They were the last of the great champions who were clean.

And don't tell me guys are "clean" because they have been tested in recent years. There is no test available for HGH, and it is clear that some players have access to designer steroids for which no tests are available.

[dbackjon]

No asterisk needed for Arizona. They were as clean as any team in the past 50 years.

[JoltinJoe]

No asterisk needed for Arizona. They were as clean as any team in the past 50 years.

I've got my suspicisions about Luis Gonzalez.

And it's rare that a former teammate says later that he lost his job to a juicer.

[bandl]

New York 1996* 1998* 1999* 2000*
Florida 1997* 2003*
Arizona 2001*
Anaheim 2002*
Boston 2004*
Chicago 2005*

None of those championships are clean.

Bostons in 2007, plus St Louis and Philadelphia maybe because testing was in place and players would have been suspended if they were still doing it.

The Yankees team in 1996 and 1998 are clean, and on the 1999 roster, only Clemens has been linked -- and it is said that he specifically was not on the juice in '99 (and it showed, he was horrible in 1999).

Don't throw the Yankees of the last 1990s in with juicers. They were the last of the great champions who were clean.

And don't tell me guys are "clean" because they have been tested in recent years. There is no test available for HGH, and it is clear that some players have access to designer steroids for which no tests are available.

What about Pettitte, Knoblauch, Stanton, Naulty, etc. Don't they count?

[bandl]

No asterisk needed for Arizona. They were as clean as any team in the past 50 years.

I've got my suspicisions about Luis Gonzalez.

And it's rare that a former teammate says later that he lost his job to a juicer.

Can't have it both ways JJ....if you have your suspicions about Gonzalez, certainly others are entitled to have their suspicions about some of your Yanks

[UNHWildCats]

New York 1996* 1998* 1999* 2000*
Florida 1997* 2003*
Arizona 2001*
Anaheim 2002*
Boston 2004*
Chicago 2005*

None of those championships are clean.

Bostons in 2007, plus St Louis and Philadelphia maybe because testing was in place and players would have been suspended if they were still doing it.

The Yankees team in 1996 and 1998 are clean, and on the 1999 roster, only Clemens has been linked -- and it is said that he specifically was not on the juice in '99 (and it showed, he was horrible in 1999).

Don't throw the Yankees of the last 1990s in with juicers. They were the last of the great champions who were clean.

And don't tell me guys are "clean" because they have been tested in recent years. There is no test available for HGH, and it is clear that some players have access to designer steroids for which no tests are available.

Clean in the sense that theres no evidence. But It would be foolish for anyone to argue a team was 100% clean from the beggining.. Each season surely every team had atleast one guy who was on steroids... The question is how far back does it go? even championships prior to 2006 are probably not clean.

[UNHWildCats]

...

[wideright82]

The Yankees team in 1996 and 1998 are clean, and on the 1999 roster, only Clemens has been linked -- and it is said that he specifically was not on the juice in '99 (and it showed, he was horrible in 1999).

Don't throw the Yankees of the last 1990s in with juicers. They were the last of the great champions who were clean.

And don't tell me guys are "clean" because they have been tested in recent years. There is no test available for HGH, and it is clear that some players have access to designer steroids for which no tests are available.

Clean in the sense that theres no evidence. But It would be foolish for anyone to argue a team was 100% clean from the beggining.. Each season surely every team had atleast one guy who was on steroids... The question is how far back does it go? even championships prior to 2006 are probably not clean.

If I were a betting man, I'd say not a championship is 100% clean dating back to the 80s

[Col Hogan]

Clean in the sense that theres no evidence. But It would be foolish for anyone to argue a team was 100% clean from the beggining.. Each season surely every team had atleast one guy who was on steroids... The question is how far back does it go? even championships prior to 2006 are probably not clean.

If I were a betting man, I'd say not a championship is 100% clean dating back to the 80s

And I'd say you are most correct....

[JoltinJoe]

The Yankees team in 1996 and 1998 are clean, and on the 1999 roster, only Clemens has been linked -- and it is said that he specifically was not on the juice in '99 (and it showed, he was horrible in 1999).

Don't throw the Yankees of the last 1990s in with juicers. They were the last of the great champions who were clean.

And don't tell me guys are "clean" because they have been tested in recent years. There is no test available for HGH, and it is clear that some players have access to designer steroids for which no tests are available.

What about Pettitte, Knoblauch, Stanton, Naulty, etc. Don't they count?

If you read the Mitchell Report, you would see that Pettitte, Knoblauch and Stanton, etc. started after the 2001 season. There is nothing on the '96 or '98 teams. The Yankees' mistake is that they added Clemens in 1999 and he brought along McNamee in 2000.

You have to read the report. For example, McNamee said Knoblauch approached him in 2002 and asked about steroids, saying he had not used them before. Pettitte never used anything prior to his injury in 2002. Even the so-called "nine" guys on the 2000 team -- most of them started after 2000.

[bandl]

What about Pettitte, Knoblauch, Stanton, Naulty, etc. Don't they count?

If you read the Mitchell Report, you would see that Pettitte, Knoblauch and Stanton, etc. started after the 2001 season. There is nothing on the '96 or '98 teams. The Yankees' mistake is that they added Clemens in 1999 and he brought along McNamee in 2000.

You have to read the report. For example, McNamee said Knoblauch approached him in 2002 and asked about steroids, saying he had not used them before. Pettitte never used anything prior to his injury in 2002. Even the so-called "nine" guys on the 2000 team -- most of them started after 2000.

Not sure where you're getting your information from, but Knoblauch played 150 games in 1999 with the Yankees, Pettitte pitched in 31 games, Stanton had 73 appearances...and I forgot about Grimsley being on that team with 55 appeareances...

Just because they only got caught after their last WS doesn't mean they didn't do steroids or HGH.....Pettitte swore up and down that he never did HGH after his name was dropped by Grimsley (even if his name may not have actually turned up inthe affidavit), but then he admitted doing HGH shortly after when he was mentioned in the Mitchell Report. He only admitted to it after he was caught. So why should we assume that other Yankees haven't lied and won't ever tell the truth until, if ever, they are caught?

[JoltinJoe]

If you read the Mitchell Report, you would see that Pettitte, Knoblauch and Stanton, etc. started after the 2001 season. There is nothing on the '96 or '98 teams. The Yankees' mistake is that they added Clemens in 1999 and he brought along McNamee in 2000.

You have to read the report. For example, McNamee said Knoblauch approached him in 2002 and asked about steroids, saying he had not used them before. Pettitte never used anything prior to his injury in 2002. Even the so-called "nine" guys on the 2000 team -- most of them started after 2000.

Not sure where you're getting your information from, but Knoblauch played 150 games in 1999 with the Yankees, Pettitte pitched in 31 games, Stanton had 73 appearances...and I forgot about Grimsley being on that team with 55 appeareances...

Just because they only got caught after their last WS doesn't mean they didn't do steroids or HGH.....Pettitte swore up and down that he never did HGH after his name was dropped by Grimsley (even if his name may not have actually turned up inthe affidavit), but then he admitted doing HGH shortly after when he was mentioned in the Mitchell Report. He only admitted to it after he was caught. So why should we assume that other Yankees haven't lied and won't ever tell the truth until, if ever, they are caught?

The point was the report says that Knoblauch started in 2002; Pettitte started in 2002; and Stanton started in 2003 (when he was with the Mets).

So they were clean in '99. And Grimsely was a non-factor; he started out ok but really started sucking up the joint in the later part of the season and had but one appearance in the post-season, and was left off the ALDS and ALCS rosters.

[bandl]

Not sure where you're getting your information from, but Knoblauch played 150 games in 1999 with the Yankees, Pettitte pitched in 31 games, Stanton had 73 appearances...and I forgot about Grimsley being on that team with 55 appeareances...

Just because they only got caught after their last WS doesn't mean they didn't do steroids or HGH.....Pettitte swore up and down that he never did HGH after his name was dropped by Grimsley (even if his name may not have actually turned up inthe affidavit), but then he admitted doing HGH shortly after when he was mentioned in the Mitchell Report. He only admitted to it after he was caught. So why should we assume that other Yankees haven't lied and won't ever tell the truth until, if ever, they are caught?

The point was the report says that Knoblauch started in 2002; Pettitte started in 2002; and Stanton started in 2003 (when he was with the Mets).

So they were clean in '99. And Grimsely was a non-factor; he sucked.

You have nothing to verify that they were clean in 1999. Just like you have nothing at all to verify your suspicion that Gonzalez was juicing.

Just like everyone else, you need to take off the blinders and admit to the suspicions that the Yankees were just as guilty as every other MLB team of juicing.

[BlueHen86]

Clean in the sense that theres no evidence. But It would be foolish for anyone to argue a team was 100% clean from the beggining.. Each season surely every team had atleast one guy who was on steroids... The question is how far back does it go? even championships prior to 2006 are probably not clean.

If I were a betting man, I'd say not a championship is 100% clean dating back to the 80s

I don't think any of the championships won were tainted by steroids. Every team was on an equal playing field when it came to cheating and it's possible that most teams had juicers on the roster.

It is baseballs all time records that are tainted by steroids. Perhaps more than any other sport, baseball is a game of statistics. Certain all time baseball records held some meaning. Most baseball fans know the significance of numbers like 56, 61 and 400. Some of those numbers, particulary home run numbers, have forever been tainted. In a perfect world Hank Aaron is the all time homerun leader and Roger Maris holds the single season record.

[bandl]

'Roid Sux'

haha, that's fun.

[wideright82]

If I were a betting man, I'd say not a championship is 100% clean dating back to the 80s

I don't think any of the championships won were tainted by steroids. Every team was on an equal playing field when it came to cheating and it's possible that most teams had juicers on the roster.

It is baseballs all time records that are tainted by steroids. Perhaps more than any other sport, baseball is a game of statistics. Certain all time baseball records held some meaning. Most baseball fans know the significance of numbers like 56, 61 and 400. Some of those numbers, particulary home run numbers, have forever been tainted. In a perfect world Hank Aaron is the all time homerun leader and Roger Maris holds the single season record.

Agreed

[JoltinJoe]

The point was the report says that Knoblauch started in 2002; Pettitte started in 2002; and Stanton started in 2003 (when he was with the Mets).

So they were clean in '99. And Grimsely was a non-factor; he sucked.

You have nothing to verify that they were clean in 1999. Just like you have nothing at all to verify your suspicion that Gonzalez was juicing.

Just like everyone else, you need to take off the blinders and admit to the suspicions that the Yankees were just as guilty as every other MLB team of juicing.

The Mitchell Report says they were clean in 1999. You have to read it.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Mitchell Report says they were clean in 1999. You have to read it.

Isn't the Mitchell Report all based on word of mouth testimony? How can you possibly put 100% stock in that?

[JoltinJoe]

The Mitchell Report says they were clean in 1999. You have to read it.

Isn't the Mitchell Report all based on word of mouth testimony? How can you possibly put 100% stock in that?

I suppose you can't. But in the case of Knoblauch and Pettitte, McNamee's testimony was pretty clear that both asked questions about steroids/HGH before starting; and was pretty clear this happened in 2001 or later.

Stanton was supplied by Radomski as a Met in 2003. Again, Radomski claimed Stanton had said he had not used steroids previously.

[Willie]

I guess Manny does indeed suck Big Papi's little pee-pee.

[Grizalltheway]

I've got my suspicisions about Luis Gonzalez.

And it's rare that a former teammate says later that he lost his job to a juicer.

Can't have it both ways JJ....if you have your suspicions about Gonzalez, certainly others are entitled to have their suspicions about some of your Yanks

Uhh, he's a lawyer, of course he can.