Hey Seattle and Portland.....

[Col Hogan]

You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme

Yea if we had defunded education, you might be right...But we haven’t

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... -for-years

[Ivytalk]

You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme

That may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted.

[kalm]

You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme

That may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted.

Umm you do know that Trump and Devos threatened to withhold funding for schools that don’t reopen in the fall, right?

[Ivytalk]

That may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted.

Umm you do know that Trump and Devos threatened to withhold funding for schools that don’t reopen in the fall, right?

Umm, yes. But the analogy between defunding the police and crime in the streets is perfect. The other one is a stretch. Trump has a powerful TV ad on that very theme.

[kalm]

Umm you do know that Trump and Devos threatened to withhold funding for schools that don’t reopen in the fall, right?

Umm, yes. But the analogy between defunding the police and crime in the streets is perfect. The other one is a stretch. Trump has a powerful TV ad on that very theme.

Ok, Mr. Everything has to be a Direct Analogy. Pretty sure Skelly understands the difference.

The gunman in the image is the for-profit and charter school industry.

[Ivytalk]

Umm, yes. But the analogy between defunding the police and crime in the streets is perfect. The other one is a stretch. Trump has a powerful TV ad on that very theme.

Ok, Mr. Everything has to be a Direct Analogy. Pretty sure Skelly understands the difference.

The gunman in the image is the for-profit and charter school industry.

Now THAT’S a stretch!

And you always turn yourself into a pretzel defending the frivolities of Jelly and Tripz.

[CID1990]

Can Trip, Kalm or someone else explain the reasoning behind this so that a toxic, straight, white, middle-aged male can understand?

It seems to me that there is an underlying belief that cops are bad and that criminals are just misunderstood and if they were treated differently we wouldn't have as great of a need for the police. It belies the reality that there are evil people in this world.

I can't explain the folks that say "defund and dismantle" - those are the folks that are flat out crazy and think all policing in this world started with slave catcher patrols in the 19th century (ignoring the centuries of policing and other public safety measures that came before that).

I can certainly understand the gripe with policing, though. I think I may have been stopped by cops once in my life when I wasn't doing something patently illegal (like speeding or running a stop sign). The one time I got pulled over by a cop because she said my brake light was out - it was a Sunday morning, a mile from my house, and she even gave me a warning on it. And I was annoyed about that. I can't imagine the Black folks who have been pulled over or stopped by the police 20, 30, 40 times in their lives. And I know it has to be at least mostly true. There's no way they were speeding or running lights that many times. That has to be incredibly disconcerting, especially when you also look at the number of violent interactions with cops that some of these stops result in. If there's a 1 in 1000 chance an encounter with a cop ends up in a violent outcome, of course you're going to be concerned when you get pulled over 30 or 40 times throughout your life. I've been pulled over once for really nothing, and that one time pissed me off. I think I read the other day that Will Smith said growing up in Philly he got stopped by the cops on numerous occasions, and he lost track of how many times cops used the n word when dealing with him. That's just patently unacceptable and until we clean that up we'll never get anywhere.

Policing has to change for us to get past this. You can't stop a person in a vehicle or just walking down the street simply because they're Black, yet I'm sure it happens every day. And I'm good with the idea that not every incident deserves police presence. If you're dealing with drug abuse or a homeless person or mental illness then even if the cop is there someone else who's not a cop should probably take the lead. If that's what defunding means, then by all means, call it something else and talk about doing that. Talk about being able to not have police stop Blacks 30-40 times in their lifetimes, or more even, and then we can make some progress.

Policing doesn’t need to change much at all. Blaming thevpolic3 for our troubles is a cop out. It’s lazy.

What needs to change is the criminalization of EVERYTHING

Eric Garner would be alive today if we weren’t asking police to enforce cigarette tax laws

75% of our “laws” are regulatory in nature. We could get rid of most municipal ordinances and blacks would be better off. Get rid of all the stupid narcotics laws and blacks would be better off

But “progressives” and klam don’t understand this. Get rid of the Statist regulatory regime and you alleviate most of the legal ills for blacks in this country

I’ll start with a though exercise... who wants to agree with me when I say all drugs (cocaine and derivatives, heroin, Mary Jane, horse trank, LSD, etc) should be legal?

Why does there need to be a NY law against selling singleton ciggies? AND... who called the po po on Eric Garner?

Wake up people

[Ivytalk]

I can't explain the folks that say "defund and dismantle" - those are the folks that are flat out crazy and think all policing in this world started with slave catcher patrols in the 19th century (ignoring the centuries of policing and other public safety measures that came before that).

I can certainly understand the gripe with policing, though. I think I may have been stopped by cops once in my life when I wasn't doing something patently illegal (like speeding or running a stop sign). The one time I got pulled over by a cop because she said my brake light was out - it was a Sunday morning, a mile from my house, and she even gave me a warning on it. And I was annoyed about that. I can't imagine the Black folks who have been pulled over or stopped by the police 20, 30, 40 times in their lives. And I know it has to be at least mostly true. There's no way they were speeding or running lights that many times. That has to be incredibly disconcerting, especially when you also look at the number of violent interactions with cops that some of these stops result in. If there's a 1 in 1000 chance an encounter with a cop ends up in a violent outcome, of course you're going to be concerned when you get pulled over 30 or 40 times throughout your life. I've been pulled over once for really nothing, and that one time pissed me off. I think I read the other day that Will Smith said growing up in Philly he got stopped by the cops on numerous occasions, and he lost track of how many times cops used the n word when dealing with him. That's just patently unacceptable and until we clean that up we'll never get anywhere.

Policing has to change for us to get past this. You can't stop a person in a vehicle or just walking down the street simply because they're Black, yet I'm sure it happens every day. And I'm good with the idea that not every incident deserves police presence. If you're dealing with drug abuse or a homeless person or mental illness then even if the cop is there someone else who's not a cop should probably take the lead. If that's what defunding means, then by all means, call it something else and talk about doing that. Talk about being able to not have police stop Blacks 30-40 times in their lifetimes, or more even, and then we can make some progress.

Policing doesn’t need to change much at all. Blaming thevpolic3 for our troubles is a cop out. It’s lazy.

What needs to change is the criminalization of EVERYTHING

Eric Garner would be alive today if we weren’t asking police to enforce cigarette tax laws

75% of our “laws” are regulatory in nature. We could get rid of most municipal ordinances and blacks would be better off. Get rid of all the stupid narcotics laws and blacks would be better off

But “progressives” and klam don’t understand this. Get rid of the Statist regulatory regime and you alleviate most of the legal ills for blacks in this country

I’ll start with a though exercise... who wants to agree with me when I say all drugs (cocaine and derivatives, heroin, Mary Jane, horse trank, LSD, etc) should be legal?

Why does there need to be a NY law against selling singleton ciggies? AND... who called the po po on Eric Garner?

Wake up people

I’ll agree with you. Let people freely choose what to ingest, and assume the risks.

[kalm]

Ok, Mr. Everything has to be a Direct Analogy. Pretty sure Skelly understands the difference.

The gunman in the image is the for-profit and charter school industry.

Now THAT’S a stretch!

And you always turn yourself into a pretzel defending the frivolities of Jelly and Tripz.

What have I said that’s inaccurate and what about Skelly’s post isn’t thought provoking satirical analogy that you are trying damn hard to reject?

Admit...you conks need me. I level you off just a bit just like I sometimes need it on the lefty thought side.

[Ivytalk]

Now THAT’S a stretch!

And you always turn yourself into a pretzel defending the frivolities of Jelly and Tripz.

What have I said that’s inaccurate and what about Skelly’s post isn’t thought provoking satirical analogy that you are trying damn hard to reject?

Admit...you conks need me. I level you off just a bit just like I sometimes need it on the lefty thought side.

Jelly doesn’t have the cranium for satire. You make the dubious claim that charter schools, which often provide top-quality education without the overhang of teachers unions, somehow rip off the public. Sprig Ivy went to one right here in DE. Your point, sir, is unsubstantiated lefty propaganda.

[Skjellyfetti]

Jelly doesn’t have the cranium for satire.

You're doing a damn good job demonstrating your struggle.

[UNI88]

What have I said that’s inaccurate and what about Skelly’s post isn’t thought provoking satirical analogy that you are trying damn hard to reject?

Admit...you conks need me. I level you off just a bit just like I sometimes need it on the lefty thought side.

Jelly doesn’t have the cranium for satire. You make the dubious claim that charter schools, which often provide top-quality education without the overhang of teachers unions, somehow rip off the public. Sprig Ivy went to one right here in DE. Your point, sir, is unsubstantiated lefty propaganda.

So urban areas might benefit from private, for-profit police forces that bid on serving and protecting individual precincts?

Using that meme to compare socialisdiots' disdain for law enforcement and trumplorables' disdain for public education was foolish because the impact of devaluing public education isn't as direct as defunding law enforcement. The comparison of the two sides' apparent lack of understanding of the importance of those services is however worthy of discussion.

[kalm]

Jelly doesn’t have the cranium for satire. You make the dubious claim that charter schools, which often provide top-quality education without the overhang of teachers unions, somehow rip off the public. Sprig Ivy went to one right here in DE. Your point, sir, is unsubstantiated lefty propaganda.

So urban areas might benefit from private, for-profit police forces that bid on serving and protecting individual precincts?

Using that meme to compare socialisdiots' disdain for law enforcement and trumplorables' disdain for public education was foolish because the impact of devaluing public education isn't as direct as defunding law enforcement. The comparison of the two sides' apparent lack of understanding of the importance of those services is however worthy of discussion.

EXACTLY...and thank you.

If for profit schools provide a a less expensive service with the same outcomes and we can transition to that...I’m all ears. But RIGHT NOW, he’s dead wrong about Skelly’s post.

Ivy (and admittedly me sometimes) is still trying to politicize things...to a fault. But I do appreciate his libertarian party trend and view it as a positive political sign.

[Baldy]

So urban areas might benefit from private, for-profit police forces that bid on serving and protecting individual precincts?

Using that meme to compare socialisdiots' disdain for law enforcement and trumplorables' disdain for public education was foolish because the impact of devaluing public education isn't as direct as defunding law enforcement. The comparison of the two sides' apparent lack of understanding of the importance of those services is however worthy of discussion.

EXACTLY...and thank you.

If for profit schools provide a a less expensive service with the same outcomes and we can transition to that...I’m all ears. But RIGHT NOW, he’s dead wrong about Skelly’s post.

Ivy (and admittedly me sometimes) is still trying to politicize things...to a fault. But I do appreciate his libertarian party trend and view it as a positive political sign.

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel again.

[kalm]

EXACTLY...and thank you.

If for profit schools provide a a less expensive service with the same outcomes and we can transition to that...I’m all ears. But RIGHT NOW, he’s dead wrong about Skelly’s post.

Ivy (and admittedly me sometimes) is still trying to politicize things...to a fault. But I do appreciate his libertarian party trend and view it as a positive political sign.

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel again.

There are some delicious gluten free pretzels out there. Even better as a late night snack dipped in chunky blue cheese dressing...but the carbs are a killer.

[UNI88]

So urban areas might benefit from private, for-profit police forces that bid on serving and protecting individual precincts?

Using that meme to compare socialisdiots' disdain for law enforcement and trumplorables' disdain for public education was foolish because the impact of devaluing public education isn't as direct as defunding law enforcement. The comparison of the two sides' apparent lack of understanding of the importance of those services is however worthy of discussion.

EXACTLY...and thank you.

If for profit schools provide a a less expensive service with the same outcomes and we can transition to that...I’m all ears. But RIGHT NOW, he’s dead wrong about Skelly’s post.

Ivy (and admittedly me sometimes) is still trying to politicize things...to a fault. But I do appreciate his libertarian party trend and view it as a positive political sign.

This post by Jelly - "You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme"? I don't think so. I agree that there are similarities between the lefts "defund police" and the rights "devalue (and eventually defund) public education" movements but that meme was not the place to make the comparison. Making it there actually distracted from the discussion.

And what if for-profit schools provide an equally or more expensive service with better outcomes? There is a difference between primary and secondary level charter schools and for-profit "universities".

Access to quality education is a core element of what this country is and should be about and devaluing public education is more anti-American and damaging to the long-term future of the country than kneeling during the National Anthem or inner-city riots.

Snakes like DeVos already have theirs and don't give a sh!t if others don't get that opportunity. She and her friends including the Trumpster are more interested in personal profit than in providing actual opportunities for people to improve their lot in life.

[SDHornet]

Read that the Seattle city council has a veto proof majority to cut the police budget by 50%. That should work well.

God, I can’t wait for this experiment in “government”. CAN. NOT. WAIT.

In six months, Seattle and Minneapolis will look just like Somalia, and it’ll take YEARS to recover (if ever). We’ll have our own little Petri dish experiments right here in the good ol’ U S of A.

Let those Leftist hellholes burn.

[SDHornet]

[AshevilleApp]

I can't explain the folks that say "defund and dismantle" - those are the folks that are flat out crazy and think all policing in this world started with slave catcher patrols in the 19th century (ignoring the centuries of policing and other public safety measures that came before that).

I can certainly understand the gripe with policing, though. I think I may have been stopped by cops once in my life when I wasn't doing something patently illegal (like speeding or running a stop sign). The one time I got pulled over by a cop because she said my brake light was out - it was a Sunday morning, a mile from my house, and she even gave me a warning on it. And I was annoyed about that. I can't imagine the Black folks who have been pulled over or stopped by the police 20, 30, 40 times in their lives. And I know it has to be at least mostly true. There's no way they were speeding or running lights that many times. That has to be incredibly disconcerting, especially when you also look at the number of violent interactions with cops that some of these stops result in. If there's a 1 in 1000 chance an encounter with a cop ends up in a violent outcome, of course you're going to be concerned when you get pulled over 30 or 40 times throughout your life. I've been pulled over once for really nothing, and that one time pissed me off. I think I read the other day that Will Smith said growing up in Philly he got stopped by the cops on numerous occasions, and he lost track of how many times cops used the n word when dealing with him. That's just patently unacceptable and until we clean that up we'll never get anywhere.

Policing has to change for us to get past this. You can't stop a person in a vehicle or just walking down the street simply because they're Black, yet I'm sure it happens every day. And I'm good with the idea that not every incident deserves police presence. If you're dealing with drug abuse or a homeless person or mental illness then even if the cop is there someone else who's not a cop should probably take the lead. If that's what defunding means, then by all means, call it something else and talk about doing that. Talk about being able to not have police stop Blacks 30-40 times in their lifetimes, or more even, and then we can make some progress.

Policing doesn’t need to change much at all. Blaming thevpolic3 for our troubles is a cop out. It’s lazy.

What needs to change is the criminalization of EVERYTHING

Eric Garner would be alive today if we weren’t asking police to enforce cigarette tax laws

75% of our “laws” are regulatory in nature. We could get rid of most municipal ordinances and blacks would be better off. Get rid of all the stupid narcotics laws and blacks would be better off

But “progressives” and klam don’t understand this. Get rid of the Statist regulatory regime and you alleviate most of the legal ills for blacks in this country

I’ll start with a though exercise... who wants to agree with me when I say all drugs (cocaine and derivatives, heroin, Mary Jane, horse trank, LSD, etc) should be legal?

Why does there need to be a NY law against selling singleton ciggies? AND... who called the po po on Eric Garner?

Wake up people

Drugs should be legal, and some of the money wasted trying to stop their use could be directed to helping those who eventually decide they have had enough. I agree that a good place to look first is at the laws police are required to enforce.

I'm not sure about other places, but it seems like the de-fund folks here want to take the money away from the PD and put it into Social Services to assist people in high crime areas. The idea has some merit, because I think one problem is that police are asked to be Social Workers, Counselors, etc., as well as law enforcers. But it will also take some major shifts in how our Social Services system works. Are they willing and able to have staff ready to respond 24/7 in case of a crisis? Would they work in tandem with law enforcement? Maybe there does need to be some structural changes made, but we need to think hard before jumping in.

[SDHornet]

You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme

That may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted.

That's a big stretch. Have you not been to his Trump Russia Hoax abortion thread?

[SDHornet]

EXACTLY...and thank you.

If for profit schools provide a a less expensive service with the same outcomes and we can transition to that...I’m all ears. But RIGHT NOW, he’s dead wrong about Skelly’s post.

Ivy (and admittedly me sometimes) is still trying to politicize things...to a fault. But I do appreciate his libertarian party trend and view it as a positive political sign.

This post by Jelly - "You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme"? I don't think so. I agree that there are similarities between the lefts "defund police" and the rights "devalue (and eventually defund) public education" movements but that meme was not the place to make the comparison. Making it there actually distracted from the discussion.

And what if for-profit schools provide an equally or more expensive service with better outcomes? There is a difference between primary and secondary level charter schools and for-profit "universities".

Access to quality education is a core element of what this country is and should be about and devaluing public education is more anti-American and damaging to the long-term future of the country than kneeling during the National Anthem or inner-city riots.

Snakes like DeVos already have theirs and don't give a sh!t if others don't get that opportunity. She and her friends including the Trumpster are more interested in personal profit than in providing actual opportunities for people to improve their lot in life.

The irony of this discussion is that public employee unions are at the crux of the problem for both policing and public education. And I'll be more specific, the protection of shitty cops and teachers are how we got here.

[UNI88]

This post by Jelly - "You could replace "police" with "education" in that meme"? I don't think so. I agree that there are similarities between the lefts "defund police" and the rights "devalue (and eventually defund) public education" movements but that meme was not the place to make the comparison. Making it there actually distracted from the discussion.

And what if for-profit schools provide an equally or more expensive service with better outcomes? There is a difference between primary and secondary level charter schools and for-profit "universities".

Access to quality education is a core element of what this country is and should be about and devaluing public education is more anti-American and damaging to the long-term future of the country than kneeling during the National Anthem or inner-city riots.

Snakes like DeVos already have theirs and don't give a sh!t if others don't get that opportunity. She and her friends including the Trumpster are more interested in personal profit than in providing actual opportunities for people to improve their lot in life.

The irony of this discussion is that public employee unions are at the crux of the problem for both policing and public education. And I'll be more specific, the protection of shitty cops and teachers are how we got here.

Where is elementary and secondary public education the worst in the US? Where are the teachers' unions the weakest (and teachers pay the lowest)? I doubt there is a strong correlation between strong teachers' unions and poor educational performance. In fact, the reality might be the opposite.

Protection of shitty teachers is a problem but I think that our education system has been more negatively impacted by increasing federal involvement and implementation of one-size-fits-all standards (No Child Left Behind and its descendants). There was (and probably is) far too much testing and teachers required to rely on cookie-cutter programs rather than coming up with plans that were tailored to their students.

[SDHornet]

The irony of this discussion is that public employee unions are at the crux of the problem for both policing and public education. And I'll be more specific, the protection of shitty cops and teachers are how we got here.

Where is elementary and secondary public education the worst in the US? Where are the teachers' unions the weakest (and teachers pay the lowest)? I doubt there is a strong correlation between strong teachers' unions and poor educational performance. In fact, the reality might be the opposite.

Protection of shitty teachers is a problem but I think that our education system has been more negatively impacted by increasing federal involvement and implementation of one-size-fits-all standards (No Child Left Behind and its descendants). There was (and probably is) far too much testing and teachers required to rely on cookie-cutter programs rather than coming up with plans that were tailored to their students.

Feel free to look into CA public education performance measures compared to other states. While viewing that info, keep in mind that the CTA is probably the strongest lobby here in CA meaning they pretty much get whatever they want from the state legislature. Food for thought.

[UNI88]

Where is elementary and secondary public education the worst in the US? Where are the teachers' unions the weakest (and teachers pay the lowest)? I doubt there is a strong correlation between strong teachers' unions and poor educational performance. In fact, the reality might be the opposite.

Protection of shitty teachers is a problem but I think that our education system has been more negatively impacted by increasing federal involvement and implementation of one-size-fits-all standards (No Child Left Behind and its descendants). There was (and probably is) far too much testing and teachers required to rely on cookie-cutter programs rather than coming up with plans that were tailored to their students.

Feel free to look into CA public education performance measures compared to other states. While viewing that info, keep in mind that the CTA is probably the strongest lobby here in CA meaning they pretty much get whatever they want from the state legislature. Food for thought.

I'm not saying that unions aren't part of the problem. I'm saying that I think there are other bigger factors in educational performance. How strong do you think teacher unions are in Alabama and how do they rank in educational performance?

Federal requirements, student/teacher ratios (which unions justifiably fight to keep low), socio-economic status, culture, etc. have a huge impact on educational outcomes.

[SDHornet]

Feel free to look into CA public education performance measures compared to other states. While viewing that info, keep in mind that the CTA is probably the strongest lobby here in CA meaning they pretty much get whatever they want from the state legislature. Food for thought.

I'm not saying that unions aren't part of the problem. I'm saying that I think there are other bigger factors in educational performance. How strong do you think teacher unions are in Alabama and how do they rank in educational performance?

Federal requirements, student/teacher ratios (which unions justifiably fight to keep low), socio-economic status, culture, etc. have a huge impact on educational outcomes.

I grew up in the hood, went to many shitty public schools. Care to guess where most of the shitty teachers get stashed? But sure put it on the socio-economic status though.

But hey to paraphrase Biden: sometimes the poor kids can be just as smart as the whites kids.