Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:44 am
Ibanez wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:41 am


Do you not think the POTUS represents all Americans?
I believe he represents everyone, but that sentiment doesn't go both ways. Perfect example is building the wall. A majority of Americans support it, but you have Deep Staters who try to fight it because THEY don't believe in it. They are actively trying to derail.

That's all I've been trying to define, is my version of a Deep Stater.
I understand you. :thumb:
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by Skjellyfetti »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:44 am
A majority of Americans support it, but you have Deep Staters who try to fight it because THEY don't believe in it. They are actively trying to derail.
Are you sure about that?

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 am
93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:10 am


I've seen the unedited video. He was chased, physically threatened, and he defended himself. He will be exonerated. I hope he makes millions on a book deal and the speaking circuits after he is set free. He deserves it, just like the kid in DC whose life CNN tried to ruin with slickly edited video as well. I'm sure he's enjoying his undisclosed millions in settlement money.
There apparently were two incidents in case we aren't talking the same. This is my understanding of what happened.

The first happened at a car dealership where someone either fired at him or in the air. In his defense he shot a different guy lunging at him. This was the guy shot in the head, who died.

It is then that he was chased down the street and attacked by the guy with the gun (shot in the arm) and by another guy who hit him with a skateboard on the back of the head before that guy was shot in the chest and killed.

While I'm not sure it was in his best interests to "carry", I can see self defense in all of this.
I see about ten or twenty reasonable doubts.

Should be a nice future for the poor kid.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:31 am
SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:44 am
A majority of Americans support it, but you have Deep Staters who try to fight it because THEY don't believe in it. They are actively trying to derail.
Are you sure about that?

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I have never supported a border wall. Too expensive.

Mines, sensors, and armed sentries would be much more effective.

Or, we could actually enforce our laws.
Last edited by 93henfan on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 am
93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:10 am


I've seen the unedited video. He was chased, physically threatened, and he defended himself. He will be exonerated. I hope he makes millions on a book deal and the speaking circuits after he is set free. He deserves it, just like the kid in DC whose life CNN tried to ruin with slickly edited video as well. I'm sure he's enjoying his undisclosed millions in settlement money.
There apparently were two incidents in case we aren't talking the same. This is my understanding of what happened.

The first happened at a car dealership where someone either fired at him or in the air. In his defense he shot a different guy lunging at him. This was the guy shot in the head, who died.

It is then that he was chased down the street and attacked by the guy with the gun (shot in the arm) and by another guy who hit him with a skateboard on the back of the head before that guy was shot in the chest and killed.

While I'm not sure it was in his best interests to "carry", I can see self defense in all of this.
Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am
SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 am


There apparently were two incidents in case we aren't talking the same. This is my understanding of what happened.

The first happened at a car dealership where someone either fired at him or in the air. In his defense he shot a different guy lunging at him. This was the guy shot in the head, who died.

It is then that he was chased down the street and attacked by the guy with the gun (shot in the arm) and by another guy who hit him with a skateboard on the back of the head before that guy was shot in the chest and killed.

While I'm not sure it was in his best interests to "carry", I can see self defense in all of this.
Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
We also don't need the criminals looting and destroying property that bring that sort of attention.

chicken

egg

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by JoltinJoe »

CID1990 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:29 am
Gil Dobie wrote:Video clearly shows a black man getting shot in the back multiple times, kids were in the car at the time of the shooting. Domestic call prior to shooting. There's got to be a better way to handle these situations.

Milwaukee Sentinal Link

Confirmed: Jacob Blake’s 3 SONS were IN THE CAR he was getting into when @KenoshaPolice shot him tonight. They saw a cop shoot their father. They will be traumatized forever. We cannot let officers violate their duty to PROTECT us. Our kids deserve better!!
What was that he was grabbing in the car? What was that the officer saw?

Based on what can be seen in the video, this could be either an unjustified shooting or it could be justified.

But nothing in the video justifies a verdict


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Agreed.

I think it's important to remember:

(1) Police officers are trained only to discharge their weapons when they have grounds to believe that lives are in danger, be it their own lives or lives of members of the public.

(2) Police offers are trained to use their weapons lethally. Police officers do not shoot for any other reason than to deliver lethal force. That's their training. They are not instructed to shoot to warn, or disable. When they shoot, they are taught to shoot lethally.

(3) When a citizen, being detained by an officer, disobeys the officer's instructions AND engages in an act which is potentially threatening to an officer or a member of the public, the officer is trained to shoot. See 1 and 2 above.

In this case, the citizen not only disobeyed the officer, but opened his car door.

In such a case, the officers will assume that the citizen opened the car door in order to retrieve some form of dangerous weapon, and will treat the action of opening the car door as potentially threatening to the officer's life. See 1 and 2 above.

This would have happened to you and me in the same situation. I don't see, on these facts, a case for racial bias.

I will await more information before reaching a definite opinion.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

Reader's Digest: comply

Great post, regardless.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by Ivytalk »

93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am
Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:31 am


Are you sure about that?

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https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... heir-minds
I have never supported a border wall. Too expensive.

Mines, sensors, and armed sentries would be much more effective.

Or, we could actually enforce our laws.
Enforce our laws? What an idea!

And machine gun nests.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

Ivytalk wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:50 am

And machine gun nests.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by AZGrizFan »

93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am
Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:31 am


Are you sure about that?

Image
https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... heir-minds
I have never supported a border wall. Too expensive.

Mines, sensors, and armed sentries would be much more effective.

Or, we could actually enforce our laws.
I’ve always said....two barbed wire fences, 50 feet apart, with mines. Cheap, effective deterrent. you get through THAT, automatically you’re a citizen. :lol:
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by clenz »

JoltinJoe wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:41 am
CID1990 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:29 am

What was that he was grabbing in the car? What was that the officer saw?

Based on what can be seen in the video, this could be either an unjustified shooting or it could be justified.

But nothing in the video justifies a verdict


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed.

I think it's important to remember:

(1) Police officers are trained only to discharge their weapons when they have grounds to believe that lives are in danger, be it their own lives or lives of members of the public.

(2) Police offers are trained to use their weapons lethally. Police officers do not shoot for any other reason than to deliver lethal force. That's their training. They are not instructed to shoot to warn, or disable. When they shoot, they are taught to shoot lethally.

(3) When a citizen, being detained by an officer, disobeys the officer's instructions AND engages in an act which is potentially threatening to an officer or a member of the public, the officer is trained to shoot. See 1 and 2 above.

In this case, the citizen not only disobeyed the officer, but opened his car door.

In such a case, the officers will assume that the citizen opened the car door in order to retrieve some form of dangerous weapon, and will treat the action of opening the car door as potentially threatening to the officer's life. See 1 and 2 above.

This would have happened to you and me in the same situation. I don't see, on these facts, a case for racial bias.

I will await more information before reaching a definite opinion.
Ironically there is a video of a white man, who is confirmed to have had a knife in his hand, that was seen charging officers, can be heard threatening to slit their fucking throats.

It took the officers more than a minute to fire a shot. One shot. That was it. Didn't kill the guy.

Wonder one one was allowed to actually threaten officer lives and got that much warning before a single shot was fired while another gets 7 shots to the back.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:03 am
I’ve always said....two barbed wire fences, 50 feet apart, with mines. Cheap, effective deterrent. you get through THAT, automatically you’re a citizen. :lol:
Concertina wire really is a motherfucker. I still have the scars to prove it.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:39 am
Ibanez wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:18 am

Wrong. Trump is the President of the United States of America. He represents EVERYONE, regardless if they voted for him or not. Every single elected official seems to forget that they also represent those in their district/state that didn't vote for them.
Now that we are talking about the President representing everyone, a deep stater would be those within government that actively defy the direction set by the President, who is carrying out the will of the people.

That's a better definition.

Of course that is my definition. I see other flavors of on the board I could agree with.
By that definition, McConnell and Congressional Republicans were part of the deep state when they were defying Obama. I think you're giving too much credit and authority to the POTUS.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am
SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 am

There apparently were two incidents in case we aren't talking the same. This is my understanding of what happened.

The first happened at a car dealership where someone either fired at him or in the air. In his defense he shot a different guy lunging at him. This was the guy shot in the head, who died.

It is then that he was chased down the street and attacked by the guy with the gun (shot in the arm) and by another guy who hit him with a skateboard on the back of the head before that guy was shot in the chest and killed.

While I'm not sure it was in his best interests to "carry", I can see self defense in all of this.
Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
Look on a map. The kid probably could have walked from his house to Wisconsin and almost certainly had a shorter drive to downtown Kenosha than any caravans of protesters coming from Milwaukee. I agree that it would be better to keep it local and not wanting outside agitators but that should apply to the protesters/rioters/looters as well.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by kalm »

93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:35 am
kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am


Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
We also don't need the criminals looting and destroying property that bring that sort of attention.

chicken

egg
Of course. But when the first happens...fuck it, let’s make it worse I guess.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by Skjellyfetti »

kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am
Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.
I agree. The first incident is the key one. Not sure we have enough and I'm reserving judgement.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am
kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am


Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
Look on a map. The kid probably could have walked from his house to Wisconsin and almost certainly had a shorter drive to downtown Kenosha than any caravans of protesters coming from Milwaukee. I agree that it would be better to keep it local and not wanting outside agitators but that should apply to the protesters/rioters/looters as well.
Rioters looters, yes. Protestors...different story.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 93henfan »

kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:20 am
93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:35 am


We also don't need the criminals looting and destroying property that bring that sort of attention.

chicken

egg
Of course. But when the first happens...fuck it, let’s make it worse I guess.
I think their intent was to protect innocent people and property. Unfortunately, the mob threatened a life and the threateners were tango-downed.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by GannonFan »

UNI88 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am
kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am


Tough to tell what happened in the first incident and if it was justified.

Bottom line, is we don’t need untrained 17 year olds driving to others states breaking their fire arms laws in order to protect other people’s property during a civil unrest protest/vandalism situations.

This helps no one.
Look on a map. The kid probably could have walked from his house to Wisconsin and almost certainly had a shorter drive to downtown Kenosha than any caravans of protesters coming from Milwaukee. I agree that it would be better to keep it local and not wanting outside agitators but that should apply to the protesters/rioters/looters as well.
Truth be told, I hadn't even looked at a map of Kenosha to see exactly where it was - for some reason I assumed it was north of Milwaukee. Agreed, this kid is probably almost a local even though he lived in Illinois. Would be interesting if he worked in Kenosha.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:21 am
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am

Look on a map. The kid probably could have walked from his house to Wisconsin and almost certainly had a shorter drive to downtown Kenosha than any caravans of protesters coming from Milwaukee. I agree that it would be better to keep it local and not wanting outside agitators but that should apply to the protesters/rioters/looters as well.
Rioters looters, yes. Protestors...different story.
Sure if you can differentiate between them before they park their cars and start marching down the street. If you can't, it's probably better to keep out all outsiders who do not have a legitimate reason to be within the Kenosha city limits. If governors and mayors can require that people wear masks why can't they put a moratorium on outsiders "visiting" a jurisdiction?

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:25 am
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am

Look on a map. The kid probably could have walked from his house to Wisconsin and almost certainly had a shorter drive to downtown Kenosha than any caravans of protesters coming from Milwaukee. I agree that it would be better to keep it local and not wanting outside agitators but that should apply to the protesters/rioters/looters as well.
Truth be told, I hadn't even looked at a map of Kenosha to see exactly where it was - for some reason I assumed it was north of Milwaukee. Agreed, this kid is probably almost a local even though he lived in Illinois. Would be interesting if he worked in Kenosha.
He might have. There is a large Amazon warehouse in Kenosha and a lot of people, especially teenagers from Illinois work there.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by HI54UNI »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:03 am
93henfan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 am


I have never supported a border wall. Too expensive.

Mines, sensors, and armed sentries would be much more effective.

Or, we could actually enforce our laws.
I’ve always said....two barbed wire fences, 50 feet apart, with mines. Cheap, effective deterrent. you get through THAT, automatically you’re a citizen. :lol:
And bring home the troops from Germany to patrol the area. We're already paying them and their would be a big economic impact for that area rather than having that economic impact in Germany.
Last edited by HI54UNI on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:38 am
Bout sums it up for me:
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