Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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clenz wrote:Take this for what it's worth to you I guess but...

I was listening to sports talk radio tonight, like I do all day long, and Rob Dibble was on one of the shows talking about the latest roids stuff. He said the fact that the media is making this sound like it didn't start until the late 90's is one of the dumbest things ever. Dibble knows his **** mind you. He said that starting in the mid-to late 70's the juicing was starting. In fact he knows players asked trainers for advice, the trainers asked the owners and managers what to advice their players and the reply from them was "make sure they get the good stuff".

So really, no era since probably the early 70's has ever been clean. Dibble said that every team had at least 5-8 players on the team that were on roids, the difference between then and now is that back then they didn't know how to use them like they do now. He also said that roids won't help a player at all unless they are already good, otherwise it will just make them look roided out.


Moral of the story, baseball has been dirty since the 70's, not the 90's.
I'll take it for what it is worth. Very litte. Dibble just says whatever pops into his mind regardless of what he may have said previously.

As I was reading your post, I was thinking about an article I read by Dibble some years back in which he largely professed a lack of overall knowledge about steroid use in baseball and that the statement that 50% of baseball players used steroids was just a "guess." I was actually able to find the story on line.

It's Time to Test for Steroids by Rob Dibble

The case made by the writers in "Game of Shadows" that steroid use exploded after players saw what Sosa and McGuire were doing in 1998 is pretty convincing and well documented. In my opinion, those journalists are much more credible than Dibble, a guy who is apparently saying different today than he did in 2002.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by clenz »

JoltinJoe wrote:
clenz wrote:Take this for what it's worth to you I guess but...

I was listening to sports talk radio tonight, like I do all day long, and Rob Dibble was on one of the shows talking about the latest roids stuff. He said the fact that the media is making this sound like it didn't start until the late 90's is one of the dumbest things ever. Dibble knows his **** mind you. He said that starting in the mid-to late 70's the juicing was starting. In fact he knows players asked trainers for advice, the trainers asked the owners and managers what to advice their players and the reply from them was "make sure they get the good stuff".

So really, no era since probably the early 70's has ever been clean. Dibble said that every team had at least 5-8 players on the team that were on roids, the difference between then and now is that back then they didn't know how to use them like they do now. He also said that roids won't help a player at all unless they are already good, otherwise it will just make them look roided out.


Moral of the story, baseball has been dirty since the 70's, not the 90's.
I'll take it for what it is worth. Very litte. Dibble just says whatever pops into his mind regardless of what he may have said previously.

As I was reading your post, I was thinking about an article I read by Dibble some years back in which he largely professed a lack of overall knowledge about steroid use in baseball and that the statement that 50% of baseball players used steroids was just a "guess." I was actually able to find the story on line.

It's Time to Test for Steroids by Rob Dibble

The case made by the writers in "Game of Shadows" that steroid use exploded after players saw what Sosa and McGuire were doing in 1998 is pretty convincing and well documented. In my opinion, those journalists are much more credible than Dibble, a guy who is apparently saying different today than he did in 2002.
Anything that says the Yanks might not have been clean must be bad :coffee:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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clenz wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
I'll take it for what it is worth. Very litte. Dibble just says whatever pops into his mind regardless of what he may have said previously.

As I was reading your post, I was thinking about an article I read by Dibble some years back in which he largely professed a lack of overall knowledge about steroid use in baseball and that the statement that 50% of baseball players used steroids was just a "guess." I was actually able to find the story on line.

It's Time to Test for Steroids by Rob Dibble

The case made by the writers in "Game of Shadows" that steroid use exploded after players saw what Sosa and McGuire were doing in 1998 is pretty convincing and well documented. In my opinion, those journalists are much more credible than Dibble, a guy who is apparently saying different today than he did in 2002.
Anything that says the Yanks might not have been clean must be bad :coffee:
Did Dibble say that?

Anyway, I asked anyone who could state a reasonable case against any member of the '98 Yanks to step forward and explain why. Since no did, I have humbly accepted my victory on that point and moved on. :thumb:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by clenz »

JoltinJoe wrote:
clenz wrote:Anything that says the Yanks might not have been clean must be bad :coffee:
Did Dibble say that?

Anyway, I asked anyone who could state a reasonable case against any member of the '98 Yanks to step forward and explain why. Since no did, I have humbly accepted my victory on that point and moved on. :thumb:
You really think that Dibble has no idea what he was talking about last night? I wish I could remember the book he was referring too as well, but can't.


Face it, no team since probably the late 60's or early 70's has been clean...period.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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clenz wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Did Dibble say that?

Anyway, I asked anyone who could state a reasonable case against any member of the '98 Yanks to step forward and explain why. Since no did, I have humbly accepted my victory on that point and moved on. :thumb:
You really think that Dibble has no idea what he was talking about last night? I wish I could remember the book he was referring too as well, but can't.


Face it, no team since probably the late 60's or early 70's has been clean...period.
My impression of Rob Dibble is that he likes to hear himself talk, he likes to be quoted, and he will say anything that needs to be said in order to be quoted.

In 2002, when Ken Caminiti said over well over 50% of major leaguers were using steroids, Dibble said that was just a guess because that was the "counterpoint" that would get you quoted.

Now that news journalists (not just sports journalists) are fingering the '98 Sosa/McGuire HR race as the triggering event for wide-spread use of PED in baseball, he says something different.

What you heard Dibble say on the radio yesterday is inconsistent with what Dibble said in the article from 2002 that I linked to.

But both times he got quoted, I guess. :thumb:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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JoltinJoe wrote:
Did Dibble say that?

Anyway, I asked anyone who could state a reasonable case against any member of the '98 Yanks to step forward and explain why. Since no did, I have humbly accepted my victory on that point and moved on. :thumb:

Wasn't Strawberry on that team? He must have been coked out of his mind half the season. :lol:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by dbackjon »

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
So liquor can cause 1 year spikes?
But being a fastball hitter being protected in the lineup by one baseball's best-ever players (and best ever "peak value" player ever, according to Bill James) might ...
Worth an extra 30 homers?

You are reaching, JJ..
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
But being a fastball hitter being protected in the lineup by one baseball's best-ever players (and best ever "peak value" player ever, according to Bill James) might ...
Worth an extra 30 homers?

You are reaching, JJ..
Maris hit 39 HRs in 1960 and was the AL MVP that year.

Now if Maris hit 61 HRs -- I don't know, let's say in 2001 -- you'd have every right to question whether he was using PEDs. Image

Of if a former teammate later complained that he had lost his job to a juicer, and he had in fact lost his job to Maris, then you'd have every right to think Maris was a juicer.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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Who's job did gonzo take. Oh wait no one's.


Gonzo's career took off after he earned the starting job and got regular playing time.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:Who's job did gonzo take. Oh wait no one's.


Gonzo's career took off after he earned the starting job and got regular playing time.
David Delucci, who ratted Gonzo out in 2008, saying he had lost jobs to two juicers during his career. He had been replaced by Gary Matthews, Jr. in Texas and Luis Gonzalez in Arizona.

The Indian's David Dellucci swings at juicers including Luis Gonzalez

BTW, when Maris hit 61 HRs, he was in his fifth big-league season, 26 years old, and already shown signs of becoming a star power hitter. The previous year, he went yard 39 times and won the AL MVP, the first of two consecutive awards. Maris hit 33 HRs the next year. Maris dropped off after that due to a broken wrist which affected his power and ended his career prematurely when he was still 32 years old.

Gonzo was a journeyman well into his career when he started putting up ridiculous numbers in comparison to what had done earlier, like Brett Boone. The first time Gonzalez hit 20 HRs was when he was 30 years old, even though he had numerous seasons prior to that when he had 500 or 600 ABs.

The point is that what Maris did in 1961 was not aberrational in comparison to what had preceded that year, and what may have followed if he had not been so badly injured. Gonzalez was 32 years old when he hit hs 57 HRs.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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David Deluchi was not starting material. A 4th outfielder at best.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:David Deluchi was not starting material. A 4th outfielder at best.
But he plainly said that he lost his job to a "juicer" and was pretty plainly implicating Gonzalez ...

It's pretty rare when a former teammate outs you like that ...

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Gonzo, Game 7, 2001*. Amazing that the best that juicer could do with Rivera was a broken-bat sorry-azzed lazy bloop ... Sorriest hit ever to win a WS ... But I guess you count that in AZ.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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I don't think age has anything to do with it... I may be biased here, but I don't think Jamie Moyer (who has won ~200 games since turning 30) or Raul Ibanez (who didn't have his first major contributing MLB season until he was 30) have taken PED's... I'm sure there are other cases out there like these two players.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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David Delucci was the starting left fielder for EXPANSION season. The Dbacks KNEW that he was not starting material. They were going to get a better everyday LF, whether it was Gonzo or someone else.

Delucci lost his job because he sucks, and was bitter about it.

I wouldn't trust a thing he said.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:David Delucci was the starting left fielder for EXPANSION season. The Dbacks KNEW that he was not starting material. They were going to get a better everyday LF, whether it was Gonzo or someone else.

Delucci lost his job because he sucks, and was bitter about it.

I wouldn't trust a thing he said.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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I see you are as bitter as Delucci...
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by Col Hogan »

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:David Deluchi was not starting material. A 4th outfielder at best.
But he plainly said that he lost his job to a "juicer" and was pretty plainly implicating Gonzalez ...

It's pretty rare when a former teammate outs you like that ...

Image

Gonzo, Game 7, 2001*. Amazing that the best that juicer could do with Rivera was a broken-bat sorry-azzed lazy bloop ... Sorriest hit ever to win a WS ... But I guess you count that in AZ.

Joe, your "Yankees got screwed and are the only team that won clean championships" whining sthick was funy at first...

But you might start looking for some new material because you just might need it as more names are "revealed" by the NY Times in their effort to sell papers...they might have to "drop" a Yankee name soon to keep interest... :coffee:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:I see you are as bitter as Delucci...
If it is bitter to speak the truth, than I guess Dellucci and I are both bitter.

2001*
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by JoltinJoe »

Col Hogan wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
But he plainly said that he lost his job to a "juicer" and was pretty plainly implicating Gonzalez ...

It's pretty rare when a former teammate outs you like that ...

Image

Gonzo, Game 7, 2001*. Amazing that the best that juicer could do with Rivera was a broken-bat sorry-azzed lazy bloop ... Sorriest hit ever to win a WS ... But I guess you count that in AZ.

Joe, your "Yankees got screwed and are the only team that won clean championships" whining sthick was funy at first...

But you might start looking for some new material because you just might need it as more names are "revealed" by the NY Times in their effort to sell papers...they might have to "drop" a Yankee name soon to keep interest... :coffee:
Mark my words. The next Yankee to be outed will be Johnny Damon. :rofl:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by dbackjon »

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:I see you are as bitter as Delucci...
If it is bitter to speak the truth, than I guess Dellucci and I are both bitter.

2001*

Could you PROVE your "truth" in a court of law?

Face it, Arizona's cheaters were better than New York's cheaters, and the decline of Rivera and the rest of the Yankees began that Series...
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by JoltinJoe »

dbackjon wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
If it is bitter to speak the truth, than I guess Dellucci and I are both bitter.

2001*

Could you PROVE your "truth" in a court of law?

Face it, Arizona's cheaters were better than New York's cheaters, and the decline of Rivera and the rest of the Yankees began that Series...
Can I prove it in court? Using circumstantial evidence, and under a preponderance of the evidence standard, yes, I could prove it in court.

It is also true by 2001, the taint of steroids had reached the Yankees' clubhouse. But at least we had 1996, 1998, and 1999 ...
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by dbackjon »

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:

Could you PROVE your "truth" in a court of law?

Face it, Arizona's cheaters were better than New York's cheaters, and the decline of Rivera and the rest of the Yankees began that Series...
Can I prove it in court? Using circumstantial evidence, and under a preponderance of the evidence standard, yes, I could prove it in court.

It is also true by 2001, the taint of steroids had reached the Yankees' clubhouse. But at least we had 1996, 1998, and 1999 ...
Yankees were taking PED in the 1990s, count on it.

And what evidence do you have? A blog? :rofl:
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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dbackjon wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Can I prove it in court? Using circumstantial evidence, and under a preponderance of the evidence standard, yes, I could prove it in court.

It is also true by 2001, the taint of steroids had reached the Yankees' clubhouse. But at least we had 1996, 1998, and 1999 ...
Yankees were taking PED in the 1990s, count on it.

And what evidence do you have? A blog? :rofl:
Give me a name and the basis for your suspicion.

As for my evidence, take a look again at that photo. His arms just aren't natural, and you know it.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

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JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Yankees were taking PED in the 1990s, count on it.

And what evidence do you have? A blog? :rofl:
Give me a name and the basis for your suspicion.

As for my evidence, take a look again at that photo. His arms just aren't natural, and you know it.
basing it on one photo?

LOL

Frankly, I don't care enough about the Yankees boughten championships to take the time. But they are there, Joe.
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Re: Report Says Big Papi, Manny On 2003 Failed Test List

Post by BlueHen86 »

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Yankees were taking PED in the 1990s, count on it.

And what evidence do you have? A blog? :rofl:
Give me a name and the basis for your suspicion.

As for my evidence, take a look again at that photo. His arms just aren't natural, and you know it.
They look a lot like the inflatable arms that SpongeBob Squarepants buys to look buff. :lol:
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