Coronavirus COVID-19

[Gil Dobie]

Then I misremembered what I read.

It was an honest question. I could have said that, but I don't think I did. I'm sure I said my vote doesn't matter, but I also posted on the "hold your nose" thread that I would vote for Trump because I was tired of the gap in popular vs EC.

I still don't read that as a Trumper, just a Republican vote vs Biden. I did see where you said you were not voting Biden, missed the part about voting Trump.

[89Hen]

It was an honest question. I could have said that, but I don't think I did. I'm sure I said my vote doesn't matter, but I also posted on the "hold your nose" thread that I would vote for Trump because I was tired of the gap in popular vs EC.

I still don't read that as a Trumper, just a Republican vote vs Biden. I did see where you said you were not voting Biden, missed the part about voting Trump.

Figured it was implied because the thread asked why you were voting for Trump. I did not vote for him in 2016 but I did this time for the reason stated.

[UNI88]

The Sketchy Claims of the Case for a Mask Mandate

Kalm?

Jeez! I was busy with yoga, guitar, tying flies, and watching the Rams. Give a fella a break!

That’s great news on Iowa athletics and schools, Fiver.

Here ya go, baby birds...

(The sports lockdown was a request from the judge not an order, but it’s being followed)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktsm.c ... id-19/amp/

And what about the article's premise that we're having a surge despite widespread wearing of masks?

[SDHornet]

The Sketchy Claims of the Case for a Mask Mandate

There’s a fundamental problem however with the media’s current mask frenzy: the American public has already adopted mask-wearing at an extraordinarily high rate. In fact, we hit almost 80% mask use back in July according to a survey tracker of behavioral changes in response to the pandemic. Furthermore, the United States has consistently hovered in the 80% mask compliance territory ever since.
...
Yet as we are now seeing in Europe and parts of the United States though, the fall 2020 case surge came many months after the widespread adoption of masks in these regions. Masks are not the next big policy step to take, but rather one that most of the afflicted regions have already taken. They simply weren’t the universal panacea that our media and parts of the epidemiology profession promised.

Kalm?

Didn't read the article, but the type of mask matters. Cloth masks are useless, it's like trying to catch a mosquito with a chain link fence useless.

Here's the part where I point at the leftists advocating mask usage and them condemning those that didn't wear them as the cause of the China Virus spreading.

[HI54UNI]

The Sketchy Claims of the Case for a Mask Mandate



Kalm?

Jeez! I was busy with yoga, guitar, tying flies, and watching the Rams. Give a fella a break!

That’s great news on Iowa athletics and schools, Fiver.

Here ya go, baby birds...

(The sports lockdown was a request from the judge not an order, but it’s being followed)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktsm.c ... id-19/amp/

Thanks for posting the article Kalm. Interesting when you go digging into it. The "judge" isn't a judge like what one would normally think of when hearing that title. It appears that he is the chair of the county commission. That doesn't make his concerns less valid but just puts a different spin on it.

Clicking through to a couple other linked articles it says the main concern is the large increase in hospitalizations, from 259 to 786, over a 3 week period. El Paso has a metro population of around 845,000. I wonder what the numbers would be on HS age or younger sick and in the hospital.

[kalm]

Jeez! I was busy with yoga, guitar, tying flies, and watching the Rams. Give a fella a break!

That’s great news on Iowa athletics and schools, Fiver.

Here ya go, baby birds...

(The sports lockdown was a request from the judge not an order, but it’s being followed)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktsm.c ... id-19/amp/

And what about the article's premise that we're having a surge despite widespread wearing of masks?

Sorry I missed it.

He raised some fair questions albeit with an obvious free market solution axe to grind.

Masking wasn’t/shouldn’t have been implied as a panacea. It’s simply another arrow in the quiver. If a mask traps only a few cells, it still reduces the viral spread for those around you. Social distancing and avoiding large groups reduce it further.

[BDKJMU]

DeBlasio: Don't travel for the holidays.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/27/de-blasio ... -holidays/

New Yorkers should tell him to go f*uck himself..

[AshevilleApp]

8182

[kalm]

Jeez! I was busy with yoga, guitar, tying flies, and watching the Rams. Give a fella a break!

That’s great news on Iowa athletics and schools, Fiver.

Here ya go, baby birds...

(The sports lockdown was a request from the judge not an order, but it’s being followed)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktsm.c ... id-19/amp/

Thanks for posting the article Kalm. Interesting when you go digging into it. The "judge" isn't a judge like what one would normally think of when hearing that title. It appears that he is the chair of the county commission. That doesn't make his concerns less valid but just puts a different spin on it.

Clicking through to a couple other linked articles it says the main concern is the large increase in hospitalizations, from 259 to 786, over a 3 week period. El Paso has a metro population of around 845,000. I wonder what the numbers would be on HS age or younger sick and in the hospital.

I’m sure much lower. It’s their potential to spread it to older populations (teachers coaches, taking it home to parents, grand parents, etc).

According to a study from Vandy on mask usage, counties without mask mandates show higher hospitalization rates. It also suggests the decline in business as new waves hit an area.

Obvious stuff to anticipate but it shows how voluntary mitigation will continue to effect the economy regardless of government measures. IOW’s it’s not your governor who killed the economy, it’s a virus.

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study- ... lizations/

[GannonFan]

Thanks for posting the article Kalm. Interesting when you go digging into it. The "judge" isn't a judge like what one would normally think of when hearing that title. It appears that he is the chair of the county commission. That doesn't make his concerns less valid but just puts a different spin on it.

Clicking through to a couple other linked articles it says the main concern is the large increase in hospitalizations, from 259 to 786, over a 3 week period. El Paso has a metro population of around 845,000. I wonder what the numbers would be on HS age or younger sick and in the hospital.

I’m sure much lower. It’s their potential to spread it to older populations (teachers coaches, taking it home to parents, grand parents, etc).

According to a study from Vandy on mask usage, counties without mask mandates show higher hospitalization rates. It also suggests the decline in business as new waves hit an area.

Obvious stuff to anticipate but it shows how voluntary mitigation will continue to effect the economy regardless of government measures. IOW’s it’s not your governor who killed the economy, it’s a virus.

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study- ... lizations/

However, it's the confluence of politics with the virus that certainly has worsened things in this country at least. Having this happen in an election year with such deep divisions already in this country, and on the heels of an impeachment as well, didn't help. You mention governors and saying they aren't a problem, but they played politics too. The nursing home fiasco in many of the northeastern states borders on criminal, is almost half of all COVID deaths in this country, and much of that falls at the feet of governors of those states. And a governor like Wolf, for instance, disregarded for months the chance to reopen certain businesses with the correct protocols in place (masks, distancing, cleaning, etc) for no real discernible reason and subsequently pissed off a good chunk of the electorate. Leadership was needed at all levels - federal, state, and local - and in most cases it was found sorely inadequate. And now we have an election trying to say which side screwed up the least.

[kalm]

I’m sure much lower. It’s their potential to spread it to older populations (teachers coaches, taking it home to parents, grand parents, etc).

According to a study from Vandy on mask usage, counties without mask mandates show higher hospitalization rates. It also suggests the decline in business as new waves hit an area.

Obvious stuff to anticipate but it shows how voluntary mitigation will continue to effect the economy regardless of government measures. IOW’s it’s not your governor who killed the economy, it’s a virus.

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study- ... lizations/

However, it's the confluence of politics with the virus that certainly has worsened things in this country at least. Having this happen in an election year with such deep divisions already in this country, and on the heels of an impeachment as well, didn't help. You mention governors and saying they aren't a problem, but they played politics too. The nursing home fiasco in many of the northeastern states borders on criminal, is almost half of all COVID deaths in this country, and much of that falls at the feet of governors of those states. And a governor like Wolf, for instance, disregarded for months the chance to reopen certain businesses with the correct protocols in place (masks, distancing, cleaning, etc) for no real discernible reason and subsequently pissed off a good chunk of the electorate. Leadership was needed at all levels - federal, state, and local - and in most cases it was found sorely inadequate. And now we have an election trying to say which side screwed up the least.

Totally agree. I was thinking more of the bigger view that no state is going to economically avoid the situation. It’s more a matter of how extreme you like your rollercoaster ride.

Some friends just went to a gun show in North Idaho. They were a couple of the only ones masked up and got stared at the whole time. That’s 100 % politically driven.

[GannonFan]

However, it's the confluence of politics with the virus that certainly has worsened things in this country at least. Having this happen in an election year with such deep divisions already in this country, and on the heels of an impeachment as well, didn't help. You mention governors and saying they aren't a problem, but they played politics too. The nursing home fiasco in many of the northeastern states borders on criminal, is almost half of all COVID deaths in this country, and much of that falls at the feet of governors of those states. And a governor like Wolf, for instance, disregarded for months the chance to reopen certain businesses with the correct protocols in place (masks, distancing, cleaning, etc) for no real discernible reason and subsequently pissed off a good chunk of the electorate. Leadership was needed at all levels - federal, state, and local - and in most cases it was found sorely inadequate. And now we have an election trying to say which side screwed up the least.

Totally agree. I was thinking more of the bigger view that no state is going to economically avoid the situation. It’s more a matter of how extreme you like your rollercoaster ride.

Some friends just went to a gun show in North Idaho. They were a couple of the only ones masked up and got stared at the whole time. That’s 100 % politically driven.

It's far easier to advocate for mask wearing and to get compliance for it when it comes from a person or position that has been reliable and respected in their decisions throughout this whole thing. I can't speak for other states, but I know the situation in PA wasn't helped when Wolf arbitrarily picked which businesses could stay open and which couldn't (the classic "essential" versus "non-essential" debate) and then dragged his feet on reopening businesses despite knowing what they had to do to reopen (i.e. masks, reduced capacity, cleaning, etc). When people are hurting, from both the virus and from the economic impact of it, you can't have a leader who comes off as tone deaf, or even worse capricious, on either side of that. It's why Trump will likely lose the election next week (although in these wacky times he might pull it out again) and why governors like Wolf are not trusted anymore on guidance when it comes to the virus.

As for the masks, pretty good compliance here in PA until you get to those small, private gatherings. You'll see them without fail in stores or larger gatherings, although even then you have plenty of folks who can't seem to keep their noses in the masks. Must be a large percentage of people here with uncommonly large noses.

[kalm]

Totally agree. I was thinking more of the bigger view that no state is going to economically avoid the situation. It’s more a matter of how extreme you like your rollercoaster ride.

Some friends just went to a gun show in North Idaho. They were a couple of the only ones masked up and got stared at the whole time. That’s 100 % politically driven.

It's far easier to advocate for mask wearing and to get compliance for it when it comes from a person or position that has been reliable and respected in their decisions throughout this whole thing. I can't speak for other states, but I know the situation in PA wasn't helped when Wolf arbitrarily picked which businesses could stay open and which couldn't (the classic "essential" versus "non-essential" debate) and then dragged his feet on reopening businesses despite knowing what they had to do to reopen (i.e. masks, reduced capacity, cleaning, etc). When people are hurting, from both the virus and from the economic impact of it, you can't have a leader who comes off as tone deaf, or even worse capricious, on either side of that. It's why Trump will likely lose the election next week (although in these wacky times he might pull it out again) and why governors like Wolf are not trusted anymore on guidance when it comes to the virus.

As for the masks, pretty good compliance here in PA until you get to those small, private gatherings. You'll see them without fail in stores or larger gatherings, although even then you have plenty of folks who can't seem to keep their noses in the masks. Must be a large percentage of people here with uncommonly large noses.

Believe me, I’m well aware of the mixed messages and inconsistencies between business types.

[CAA Flagship]

Clemson son tested out of isolation (two more negative tests in last couple of days). He immediately drove home and arrived last night. Will be here for a week as they have Monday and Tuesday off for Fall Break.
He has had at least 10 negative tests in the last 2 months while people all around him got it including his roommate in the dorm.

Virginia Tech son is still COVID-free. Wop/Jap ratio FTW!!!!!

[HI54UNI]

Thanks for posting the article Kalm. Interesting when you go digging into it. The "judge" isn't a judge like what one would normally think of when hearing that title. It appears that he is the chair of the county commission. That doesn't make his concerns less valid but just puts a different spin on it.

Clicking through to a couple other linked articles it says the main concern is the large increase in hospitalizations, from 259 to 786, over a 3 week period. El Paso has a metro population of around 845,000. I wonder what the numbers would be on HS age or younger sick and in the hospital.

I’m sure much lower. It’s their potential to spread it to older populations (teachers coaches, taking it home to parents, grand parents, etc).

According to a study from Vandy on mask usage, counties without mask mandates show higher hospitalization rates. It also suggests the decline in business as new waves hit an area.

Obvious stuff to anticipate but it shows how voluntary mitigation will continue to effect the economy regardless of government measures. IOW’s it’s not your governor who killed the economy, it’s a virus.

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study- ... lizations/

In Iowa we're not seeing it being transferred from kids to teachers or kids to kids. Not even seeing much transfer from kids to parents. It seems to be more adult to adult.

[GannonFan]

I’m sure much lower. It’s their potential to spread it to older populations (teachers coaches, taking it home to parents, grand parents, etc).

According to a study from Vandy on mask usage, counties without mask mandates show higher hospitalization rates. It also suggests the decline in business as new waves hit an area.

Obvious stuff to anticipate but it shows how voluntary mitigation will continue to effect the economy regardless of government measures. IOW’s it’s not your governor who killed the economy, it’s a virus.

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study- ... lizations/

In Iowa we're not seeing it being transferred from kids to teachers or kids to kids. Not even seeing much transfer from kids to parents. It seems to be more adult to adult.

Think that's one reason why schools need to remain open (assuming they are open, which IMO they should be). We're quick to close schools because, well, that's what we've always done and we're conditioned to call kids "germ monsters" and the like. It's not terribly scientific and in this particular pandemic, it's not accurate either. I understood closing them in March when all hell broke loose and no one knew anywhere near enough about the virus, but we're supposedly smarter now and should know better. Remains to see if we're going to demonstrate that or not.

[GannonFan]

I thought this article from the BBC was interesting. Manchester United spent a lot of money making modifications to their stadium so that they could get 25,000 fans in there, meeting all the government standards and guidelines for social distancing and cleaning and so on. By all measures, and by the science, it should be perfectly safe to have 23,500 fans with masks in that stadium. To date, the government there has allowed 0 fans. Again, we know what to do, we know how to be as safe as we can, and yet for reasons that can be summed up as likely "er, it wouldn't look good", we don't do these things and we keep in place artificial restrictions. When governments do these things, it does undercut the reliability and trust in government.

Same goes for here in the US. In PA for instance, Wolf finally did let fans into the NFL stadiums for games. Places are roughly 70,000 capacity so you can easily safely space out people in that kind of outdoor venue. When it came time to how many people are allowed in, however, the dart board approach took over. As the size of the stadium increases, the percentage of total capacity allowed in the stadium decreases, until at such a point as an arbitrary max 7500 was put in place (and that includes both teams and all workers at the stadium). Why 7500? No particular reason, just sounded good. Science indeed.

Roche told Sky Sports News: "It's quite bemusing to understand why people can gather in other settings such as on an aeroplane or in a restaurant, or even in a cinema to watch football, when we know we've got the plans and the process is ready to deliver a match day here safely.

"We spent around two months working with the government guidelines to develop the right processes and measures to make sure that we can have around 23,500 people in this stadium safely social distancing."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54716149

[kalm]

Unfortunately, we have to live next to these idiots.

“Masks and social distancing are a hoax! Freedom! ‘Murica!!!

“(Hey, Washington, can we use a couple of your hospital beds?”

“Ours seem to be full for some reason)”



https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/ ... mz9_y1zASY

[Gil Dobie]

Wisconsin football has been hit by covid. Nebraska game cancelled, Purdue game in jeopardy.

[GannonFan]

Unfortunately, we have to live next to these idiots.

“Masks and social distancing are a hoax! Freedom! ‘Murica!!!

“(Hey, Washington, can we use a couple of your hospital beds?”

“Ours seem to be full for some reason)”



https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/ ... mz9_y1zASY

So harsh, kalm. Where's your love for your fellow human beings, regardless of their frailties or short comings? People can't help it if society has forced them to grow up underprivileged. What if their parents were under-intelligent, government-paranoid malcontents and they were just raised that way? It's not their fault, shame on you for casting blame when you should be extending a welcoming hand and/or wallet.

[89Hen]

I thought only Trumpers were against lockdowns.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54701042

Protests took place across Italy on Monday over new restrictions to curb the country's second wave of Covid.

Clashes were reported in the northern cities such as Turin, where petrol bombs were thrown at officers.

In Milan tear gas was used to disperse protesters, and thousands of people gathered in the centre of Naples.

The demonstrations began soon after the national government's order to close restaurants, bars, gyms and cinemas came into effect at 18:00 local time.

Many regions have also imposed night-time curfews - including Lombardy, where Milan is, and Piedmont, where Turin is. The violence was blamed on extremist agitators and police said 28 people had been arrested in Milan alone.

Protests took place in about a dozen other cities, including Rome, Genoa, Palermo and Trieste. Taxi drivers occupied a central square in Turin while restaurant owners beat pots and pans in the centre of Cremona.

[HI54UNI]

IHSA defies Gov. Pritzker, says basketball season can start on schedule

The Illinois High School Association announced Wednesday that the basketball season can start as scheduled. It’s a totally unexpected move that directly contradicts the guidelines Gov. J.B. Pritzker and the Illinois Department of Public Health outlined on Tuesday.

Pritzker and the IDPH put winter sports on an indefinite hold and moved basketball from a medium-risk sport to a higher-risk sport in the IDPH guidelines.

‘‘As with sports in the fall, nothing is ‘canceled,’ just put on hold until we’re through the thick of this pandemic,’’ Pritzker said in a statement on Tuesday.

The disagreement between the IHSA and the governor/IDPH likely means the final decision will come down to the individual school districts. Theoretically the school districts would open themselves up to tremendous liability by playing against the guidelines of the governor and the IDPH.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/10/28 ... basketball

[kalm]

Unfortunately, we have to live next to these idiots.

“Masks and social distancing are a hoax! Freedom! ‘Murica!!!

“(Hey, Washington, can we use a couple of your hospital beds?”

“Ours seem to be full for some reason)”



https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/ ... mz9_y1zASY

So harsh, kalm. Where's your love for your fellow human beings, regardless of their frailties or short comings? People can't help it if society has forced them to grow up underprivileged. What if their parents were under-intelligent, government-paranoid malcontents and they were just raised that way? It's not their fault, shame on you for casting blame when you should be extending a welcoming hand and/or wallet.

You’re absolutely right. I posted that in a moment of weakness. I’m going to head over to Rathdrum and hand out masks, sanitizer, and pamphlets of Spinoza’s treatise on god.

[kalm]

Spain announces a 6 month state of emergency that enables governments to issue mandates more quickly.

[SDHornet]

Of course the irony of these European countries going into another extended and more severe lockdown is that they were supposedly the ones doing everything "right".