What to do with Trump between now and when Biden takes over

[UNI88]

25th route wouldn't have to take much time at all. That's why it's the best, imo. Could be done before sundown.

And, it wouldn't have to go to Congress.

1. Pence and a majority of cabinet vote that Trump is incapable of carrying out his duties.

2. Pence is Acting President.

3. Trump says he is fit. Can become President again in four days unless Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence remains Acting President. Repeat.

4. After 21 days it has to have Congressional approval. Obviously that doesn't apply here because Trump lost a fair and free election and Biden takes over on Jan 20th.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

What about the unintended consequences?

[GannonFan]

25th route wouldn't have to take much time at all. That's why it's the best, imo. Could be done before sundown.

And, it wouldn't have to go to Congress.

1. Pence and a majority of cabinet vote that Trump is incapable of carrying out his duties.

2. Pence is Acting President.

3. Trump says he is fit. Can become President again in four days unless Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence and the cabinet vote again. Pence remains Acting President. Repeat.

4. After 21 days it has to have Congressional approval. Obviously that doesn't apply here because Trump lost a fair and free election and Biden takes over on Jan 20th.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

Good point about the lack of need for Congress to even step in and vote on it. They could do one of those pocket vetoes and wait it out without even having to step in. Leaves it up to the cabinet then. With that said, with Chao resigning, I think the cabinet, if they do anything, will choose to walk away rather than remove. But I think they just wait it out until the 20th and Trump doesn't get his badge of honor (as he and his supporters would see it) of being removed from office.

[Skjellyfetti]

What about the unintended consequences?

I think there are more downsides to letting Trump remain in power and than letting a grown up like Pence take over for less than a couple of weeks. JMO, though.

[DuckDuckGriz]

#3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

This. Don't think there is time for formal impeachment so that isn't really an option. 25th would just enrage more people. Run out the clock and move on come Jan 20th.

The SM bans didn't help either.

We can agree on somthing

[kalm]

What about the unintended consequences?

I think there are more downsides to letting Trump remain in power and than letting a grown up like Pence take over for less than a couple of weeks. JMO, though.

Yep.

Sometimes, even in politics it’s about doing the right thing. Can they retroactively impeach after the 20th?

[kalm]

Shopify taking matters into its own hands...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/busi ... 53d3dmZ04Y

[GannonFan]

I think there are more downsides to letting Trump remain in power and than letting a grown up like Pence take over for less than a couple of weeks. JMO, though.

Yep.

Sometimes, even in politics it’s about doing the right thing. Can they retroactively impeach after the 20th?

Maybe they can finish Nixon's impeachment then? Probably could go ahead an impeach all Presidents who were slave owners as well while you're at it.

They could impeach Trump in a day really, it doesn't take all that long. No need for retroactive things for something like that.

[UNI88]

I think there are more downsides to letting Trump remain in power and than letting a grown up like Pence take over for less than a couple of weeks. JMO, though.

Yep.

Sometimes, even in politics it’s about doing the right thing. Can they retroactively impeach after the 20th?

What are the downsides to letting Trump remain in power?

I guess an upside of removing him is that Trumpers couldn't use the "but BLM" excuse after they go absolutely apesh!t burning, looting and maybe worse. Maybe they even shoot enough people so that Dem's can outlaw guns. The deaths will just be collateral damage, a small price to pay for progress(iveness).

[BDKJMU]

Thanks Trip Jr. Good to see you're also willing to burn down the country because you didn't get your way. That's some real patriotism!

BDK isn't a patriot.

[Pwns]

What would you impeach him for? "He's a doodie head and we don't like him!"

Not like you can get enough votes for a conviction in the senate in the first place.

[AshevilleApp]

Ignore him.

[AZGrizFan]

#3. 25th amendment or impeachment with less than 2 weeks to go would just be dumping gas on a fire.

This. Don't think there is time for formal impeachment so that isn't really an option. 25th would just enrage more people. Run out the clock and move on come Jan 20th.

The SM bans didn't help either.

I agree with the above post. Let him stew in his shit and slink out the door. All impeaching him now would do would be to validate the kooks opinions of the rest of Washington.

[catbooster]

Trump's kind of a tough nut to crack. He has no shame.

I think I'd like to see the 25th amendment solution, because I think it would bother him the most out of those options. It would mean his own people (the cabinet and Pence) turned on him and that he was declared unfit to serve (I'm not sure they have to declare why, but the obvious implication is that he is mentally unfit). That may be the most humiliating way for him to go. But I don't think it's at all likely to happen.

I think he'd be wearing his impeachment like a badge of honor and would rally the troops with it. I'm doubtful that the Senate would vote to convict even if the House impeached him. But if I'm not mistaken, once you've been impeached you can't run for office. So that's a big advantage of impeachment in this case. There could be some real interesting thoughts crossing Cruz and Hawley's minds if voting for impeaching Trump would clear him from consideration in the next Presidential election. But how to do it without alienating the base they've tried so hard to cultivate? Does impeachment have to be concluded while he's in office?

Letting him stew in office is probably what will happen. And it might be the best solution even if it's less satisfying for many. Doing anything to him may make his flock further entrenched and slow down him fading away (similar to Ford's rationale for Nixon's pardon). But I doubt he'll quietly fade away. That's why I'd like to see him discredited.

Maybe another possibility is to let him stew and after he's out of office charge him with inciting a riot, sedition, treason or something like that? Make him sit in court under the control of a judge who can throw him in jail like a common criminal for contempt if he doesn't behave?

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen.

[AZGrizFan]

What about the unintended consequences?

I think there are more downsides to letting Trump remain in power and than letting a grown up like Pence take over for less than a couple of weeks. JMO, though.

Please elaborate. Because I think what you saw yesterday is just a precursor if they try to go full force after him in his last 12 days.

[AZGrizFan]

Trump's kind of a tough nut to crack. He has no shame.

I think I'd like to see the 25th amendment solution, because I think it would bother him the most out of those options. It would mean his own people (the cabinet and Pence) turned on him and that he was declared unfit to serve (I'm not sure they have to declare why, but the obvious implication is that he is mentally unfit). That may be the most humiliating way for him to go. But I don't think it's at all likely to happen.

I think he'd be wearing his impeachment like a badge of honor and would rally the troops with it. I'm doubtful that the Senate would vote to convict even if the House impeached him. But if I'm not mistaken, once you've been impeached you can't run for office. So that's a big advantage of impeachment in this case. There could be some real interesting thoughts crossing Cruz and Hawley's minds if voting for impeaching Trump would clear him from consideration in the next Presidential election. But how to do it without alienating the base they've tried so hard to cultivate? Does impeachment have to be concluded while he's in office?

Letting him stew in office is probably what will happen. And it might be the best solution even if it's less satisfying for many. Doing anything to him may make his flock further entrenched and slow down him fading away (similar to Ford's rationale for Nixon's pardon). But I doubt he'll quietly fade away. That's why I'd like to see him discredited.

Maybe another possibility is to let him stew and after he's out of office charge him with inciting a riot, sedition, treason or something like that? Make him sit in court under the control of a judge who can throw him in jail like a common criminal for contempt if he doesn't behave?

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen.

If that’s the case, I’d like to change my vote. Because there’s no WAY I want him to be the candidate in 2024. I don’t even want him around gumming up the primary process.

[BDKJMU]

Shopify taking matters into its own hands...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/busi ... 53d3dmZ04Y

Tons of Trump stuff on Amazon & E-bay right now. There are other stores that sell lots of stuff, including Trump, where you can still buy Trump stuff. And who the hell who wants Trump stuff that doesn't have it by now? I saw countless Trump vendors in heavy red area this past year, at gun shows, Trump rallies, etc.

[catbooster]

Trump's kind of a tough nut to crack. He has no shame.

I think I'd like to see the 25th amendment solution, because I think it would bother him the most out of those options. It would mean his own people (the cabinet and Pence) turned on him and that he was declared unfit to serve (I'm not sure they have to declare why, but the obvious implication is that he is mentally unfit). That may be the most humiliating way for him to go. But I don't think it's at all likely to happen.

I think he'd be wearing his impeachment like a badge of honor and would rally the troops with it. I'm doubtful that the Senate would vote to convict even if the House impeached him. But if I'm not mistaken, once you've been impeached you can't run for office. So that's a big advantage of impeachment in this case. There could be some real interesting thoughts crossing Cruz and Hawley's minds if voting for impeaching Trump would clear him from consideration in the next Presidential election. But how to do it without alienating the base they've tried so hard to cultivate? Does impeachment have to be concluded while he's in office?

Letting him stew in office is probably what will happen. And it might be the best solution even if it's less satisfying for many. Doing anything to him may make his flock further entrenched and slow down him fading away (similar to Ford's rationale for Nixon's pardon). But I doubt he'll quietly fade away. That's why I'd like to see him discredited.

Maybe another possibility is to let him stew and after he's out of office charge him with inciting a riot, sedition, treason or something like that? Make him sit in court under the control of a judge who can throw him in jail like a common criminal for contempt if he doesn't behave?

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen.

If that’s the case, I’d like to change my vote. Because there’s no WAY I want him to be the candidate in 2024. I don’t even want him around gumming up the primary process.

I just googled it since I wasn't sure where I'd heard it. It sounds like that is an option that the Senate can impose:

In impeachment proceedings, the defendant does not risk forfeiture of life, liberty, or property. According to the Constitution, the only penalties allowed to be imposed by the Senate are removal from office and disqualification from holding any federal office in the future.

[BDKJMU]

What would you impeach him for? "He's a doodie head and we don't like him!"

Not like you can get enough votes for a conviction in the senate in the first place.

Like they impeached before for. Orange Man Bad.

[BDKJMU]

Trump's kind of a tough nut to crack. He has no shame.

I think I'd like to see the 25th amendment solution, because I think it would bother him the most out of those options. It would mean his own people (the cabinet and Pence) turned on him and that he was declared unfit to serve (I'm not sure they have to declare why, but the obvious implication is that he is mentally unfit). That may be the most humiliating way for him to go. But I don't think it's at all likely to happen.

I think he'd be wearing his impeachment like a badge of honor and would rally the troops with it. I'm doubtful that the Senate would vote to convict even if the House impeached him. But if I'm not mistaken, once you've been impeached you can't run for office. So that's a big advantage of impeachment in this case. There could be some real interesting thoughts crossing Cruz and Hawley's minds if voting for impeaching Trump would clear him from consideration in the next Presidential election. But how to do it without alienating the base they've tried so hard to cultivate? Does impeachment have to be concluded while he's in office?

Letting him stew in office is probably what will happen. And it might be the best solution even if it's less satisfying for many. Doing anything to him may make his flock further entrenched and slow down him fading away (similar to Ford's rationale for Nixon's pardon). But I doubt he'll quietly fade away. That's why I'd like to see him discredited.

Maybe another possibility is to let him stew and after he's out of office charge him with inciting a riot, sedition, treason or something like that? Make him sit in court under the control of a judge who can throw him in jail like a common criminal for contempt if he doesn't behave?

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen.

Obviously wrong. He was impeached in 2019, and just ran for office.

[catbooster]

What would you impeach him for? "He's a doodie head and we don't like him!"

Not like you can get enough votes for a conviction in the senate in the first place.

Probably for "'treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Lots of people think he could be charged with sedition for his antics yesterday. I would think that qualifies as a high crime, misdemeanor or even treason. I'm sure most Dem's would see it that way. I think a pretty good argument could be made - probably a better argument than some other impeachment proceedings have had.

But it's probably a moot point. I don't think anything will happen.

[kalm]

Yep.

Sometimes, even in politics it’s about doing the right thing. Can they retroactively impeach after the 20th?

What are the downsides to letting Trump remain in power?

I guess an upside of removing him is that Trumpers couldn't use the "but BLM" excuse after they go absolutely apesh!t burning, looting and maybe worse. Maybe they even shoot enough people so that Dem's can outlaw guns. The deaths will just be collateral damage, a small price to pay for progress(iveness).

Who knows for sure? I mean many didn’t see yesterday happening either.

Beyond that, a message to Trump and his cult needs to be sent. They need to be bitch slapped hard. Heated political discourse has led to mild acts of domestic terrorism already. We don’t need to enable it any further.

Yesterday has changed things significantly.

[catbooster]

Trump's kind of a tough nut to crack. He has no shame.

I think I'd like to see the 25th amendment solution, because I think it would bother him the most out of those options. It would mean his own people (the cabinet and Pence) turned on him and that he was declared unfit to serve (I'm not sure they have to declare why, but the obvious implication is that he is mentally unfit). That may be the most humiliating way for him to go. But I don't think it's at all likely to happen.

I think he'd be wearing his impeachment like a badge of honor and would rally the troops with it. I'm doubtful that the Senate would vote to convict even if the House impeached him. But if I'm not mistaken, once you've been impeached you can't run for office. So that's a big advantage of impeachment in this case. There could be some real interesting thoughts crossing Cruz and Hawley's minds if voting for impeaching Trump would clear him from consideration in the next Presidential election. But how to do it without alienating the base they've tried so hard to cultivate? Does impeachment have to be concluded while he's in office?

Letting him stew in office is probably what will happen. And it might be the best solution even if it's less satisfying for many. Doing anything to him may make his flock further entrenched and slow down him fading away (similar to Ford's rationale for Nixon's pardon). But I doubt he'll quietly fade away. That's why I'd like to see him discredited.

Maybe another possibility is to let him stew and after he's out of office charge him with inciting a riot, sedition, treason or something like that? Make him sit in court under the control of a judge who can throw him in jail like a common criminal for contempt if he doesn't behave?

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen.

Obviously wrong. He was impeached in 2019, and just ran for office.

Sorry - not impeached (charged by the House). Convicted (by the Senate).

[AZGrizFan]

What are the downsides to letting Trump remain in power?

I guess an upside of removing him is that Trumpers couldn't use the "but BLM" excuse after they go absolutely apesh!t burning, looting and maybe worse. Maybe they even shoot enough people so that Dem's can outlaw guns. The deaths will just be collateral damage, a small price to pay for progress(iveness).

Who knows for sure? I mean many didn’t see yesterday happening either.

Beyond that, a message to Trump and his cult needs to be sent. They need to be bitch slapped hard. Heated political discourse has led to mild acts of domestic terrorism already. We don’t need to enable it any further.

Yesterday has changed things significantly.

Spoken like someone who would have been on the side of the British in 1776.

[UNI88]

What are the downsides to letting Trump remain in power?

I guess an upside of removing him is that Trumpers couldn't use the "but BLM" excuse after they go absolutely apesh!t burning, looting and maybe worse. Maybe they even shoot enough people so that Dem's can outlaw guns. The deaths will just be collateral damage, a small price to pay for progress(iveness).

Who knows for sure? I mean many didn’t see yesterday happening either.

Beyond that, a message to Trump and his cult needs to be sent. They need to be bitch slapped hard. Heated political discourse has led to mild acts of domestic terrorism already. We don’t need to enable it any further.

Yesterday has changed things significantly.

You agreed with Jelly that there are "more downsides to letting Trump remain in power" but you can't provide specifics. Jelly can you?

And which "mild acts of domestic terrorism" are we talking about? The ones that occurred in DC yesterday or the ones that occurred in Portland, Seattle, etc. over the course of the summer?

If just DC, shouldn't we also bitch slap the so called political leaders who allowed, enabled or endorsed the "mild acts of domestic terrorism" from the summer?

And don't give me the they're different baloney. They're not exactly the same but there are definite similarities and the response to both should be consistent if you're not a partisan hypocrite. It could be logically argued that the lack of punishment for the AnTiFa/BLM rioters emboldened the MAGA rioters. The summer riots changed things significantly too.

[Skjellyfetti]

Inauguration Day and not inviting anymore uprisings to disrupt the transfer of power.