Coronavirus COVID-19

[Gil Dobie]

A Google search showed 21 Iowa teachers have died. Another site says over 12,000 cases in Iowa schools.

link

Not being transmitted at school.

I'm not against kids going to class in person, but the facts are, covid is spreading in schools, despite what a state government says. The vulnerable should not attend or teach in person.

[HI54UNI]

Not being transmitted at school.

I'm not against kids going to class in person, but the facts are, covid is spreading in schools, despite what a state government says. The vulnerable should not attend or teach in person.

It is being closely tracked and contact traced. It is not spreading in schools. And the link you posted is a fear porn website funded by the teacher's union.

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not against kids going to class in person, but the facts are, covid is spreading in schools, despite what a state government says. The vulnerable should not attend or teach in person.

It is being closely tracked and contact traced. It is not spreading in schools. And the link you posted is a fear porn website funded by the teacher's union.

I really haven't had time to look into it. Just some quick Google searches. I would bet all I own that it has spread in schools in Iowa. I'm sure there are political media sites that deny it, but it's a virus, not a political entity. Lies on both sides of the political spectrum.

[HI54UNI]

It is being closely tracked and contact traced. It is not spreading in schools. And the link you posted is a fear porn website funded by the teacher's union.

I really haven't had time to look into it. Just some quick Google searches. I would bet all I own that it has spread in schools in Iowa. I'm sure there are political media sites that deny it, but it's a virus, not a political entity. Lies on both sides of the political spectrum.

And I'm telling you as a school board member that gets weekly updates from our school supt and our state school association that there is no significant spread occurring in schools.

[Gil Dobie]

I really haven't had time to look into it. Just some quick Google searches. I would bet all I own that it has spread in schools in Iowa. I'm sure there are political media sites that deny it, but it's a virus, not a political entity. Lies on both sides of the political spectrum.

And I'm telling you as a school board member that gets weekly updates from our school supt and our state school association that there is no significant spread occurring in schools.

Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for. So there is spread, significant or not significant. That is the simple thing I've been saying. Having kids in class means there will be spread, significant or not. Of course covid has to come into the school from outside, but it does spread once inside the school, however much, I really don't care. Why is it bad that I stated people that would be negatively affected by covid, should probably stay away to be safe. I know one person and his wife, not from Iowa, got it from their 1st grader, who got it at school.

[kalm]

And I'm telling you as a school board member that gets weekly updates from our school supt and our state school association that there is no significant spread occurring in schools.

Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for. So there is spread, significant or not significant. That is the simple thing I've been saying. Having kids in class means there will be spread, significant or not. Of course covid has to come into the school from outside, but it does spread once inside the school, however much, I really don't care. Why is it bad that I stated people that would be negatively affected by covid, should probably stay away to be safe. I know one person and his wife, not from Iowa, got it from their 1st grader, who got it at school.

Exactly. I know 3 administrators and one coach who more than likely got it from schools.

It’s a matter of risk tolerance coupled with how long you’re willing to let the disease stick around for. Iowa schools may have done an excellent job and/or be an outlier but to claim “not being transmitted at schools” is hyperbole.

[kalm]

You just can’t get certain stank off of some shit...Mar A Lago is partially quarantined due to Covid outbreak.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... BWQDRB2TC4

[UNI88]

Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for. So there is spread, significant or not significant. That is the simple thing I've been saying. Having kids in class means there will be spread, significant or not. Of course covid has to come into the school from outside, but it does spread once inside the school, however much, I really don't care. Why is it bad that I stated people that would be negatively affected by covid, should probably stay away to be safe. I know one person and his wife, not from Iowa, got it from their 1st grader, who got it at school.

Exactly. I know 3 administrators and one coach who more than likely got it from schools.

It’s a matter of risk tolerance coupled with how long you’re willing to let the disease stick around for. Iowa schools may have done an excellent job and/or be an outlier but to claim “not being transmitted at schools” is hyperbole.

To use Gil's words, Fiver has a narrative that he is pushing while you and Gil have a narrative that you are pushing.

Risk tolerance is a part of it but there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to stopping the virus. There are costs (economic loss, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, academic struggles, civil liberties, etc.) associated with the preventative measures that we are taking. At some point, those costs outweigh the next life saved. One year in and I don't think we've come anywhere close to quantifying those costs. Maybe Iowa has placed a greater value on those potential costs than states like Minnesota and Washington. Isn't that their choice in this wonderful Republic?

[Gil Dobie]

Exactly. I know 3 administrators and one coach who more than likely got it from schools.

It’s a matter of risk tolerance coupled with how long you’re willing to let the disease stick around for. Iowa schools may have done an excellent job and/or be an outlier but to claim “not being transmitted at schools” is hyperbole.

To use Gil's words, Fiver has a narrative that he is pushing while you and Gil have a narrative that you are pushing.

Risk tolerance is a part of it but there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to stopping the virus. There are costs (economic loss, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, academic struggles, civil liberties, etc.) associated with the preventative measures that we are taking. At some point, those costs outweigh the next life saved. One year in and I don't think we've come anywhere close to quantifying those costs. Maybe Iowa has placed a greater value on those potential costs than states like Minnesota and Washington. Isn't that their choice in this wonderful Republic?

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

[kalm]

To use Gil's words, Fiver has a narrative that he is pushing while you and Gil have a narrative that you are pushing.

Risk tolerance is a part of it but there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to stopping the virus. There are costs (economic loss, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, academic struggles, civil liberties, etc.) associated with the preventative measures that we are taking. At some point, those costs outweigh the next life saved. One year in and I don't think we've come anywhere close to quantifying those costs. Maybe Iowa has placed a greater value on those potential costs than states like Minnesota and Washington. Isn't that their choice in this wonderful Republic?

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

This.

Keeping the virus around longer than if more aggressive mitigating actions were taken can also increase the costs.

Your "narrative" of both sides do it is reminding me of atheism as a religion (which I think is a valid claim).

To be fair, here's your chance to take a stab at how many deaths and long term health effects are acceptable. Go!

[HI54UNI]

CDC and WHO are both saying school transmission is low. Even God Fauci says schools should be open because spread is minimal.

[UNI88]

To use Gil's words, Fiver has a narrative that he is pushing while you and Gil have a narrative that you are pushing.

Risk tolerance is a part of it but there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to stopping the virus. There are costs (economic loss, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, academic struggles, civil liberties, etc.) associated with the preventative measures that we are taking. At some point, those costs outweigh the next life saved. One year in and I don't think we've come anywhere close to quantifying those costs. Maybe Iowa has placed a greater value on those potential costs than states like Minnesota and Washington. Isn't that their choice in this wonderful Republic?

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

You're the one who brought personal narratives into this ("Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for."). Your narrative/agenda is to push to save every life possible while ignoring or minimizing the costs of those efforts.

Teen suicides aren't increasing, is that because the lockdowns haven't impacted teens or because of independent efforts to get people to seek help? How about adult suicides? I see a lot more ads on TV and Facebook posts about seeking help if you're depressed.

Lockdowns and restrictions that close schools and keep healthy people away are hurting academic performance. Anecdotal but relevant - my daughter was a straight-A student before the lockdowns, she's struggling to maintain a B average since the lockdowns started. My ex has to spend time monitoring her during the day which hurts her job performance. The teachers didn't even notice my daughter's struggles until we pointed them out because they were focused on the many students who are failing. I would guess that on average, students have gotten half of what they would have from in-person learning over the last year - that's a lost semester of academic learning. Fiver, would you agree? You can sit in your bubble and think kids are fine because they can go to school remotely but the learning isn't the same and the loss of social interaction is taking a toll on their mental health. That is a cost of keeping people safe that should be considered. Or we can open the schools and save the stimulus dollars to support those who are at-risk to stay home rather than giving a bribe to every Tom, Dick & Harry who has submitted a 1040.

Economic losses, are you kidding me? We wouldn't need stimulus dollars if there weren't economic losses. Think about restaurants that have been closed or at a fraction of capacity or small landlords who can't collect rent. They and their employees are hurting and they're not the only ones.

Forcing people to wear masks in public spaces is a degradation of civil liberties. It might be justified but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about what else could be imposed upon us by the government.

[UNI88]

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

This.

Keeping the virus around longer than if more aggressive mitigating actions were taken can also increase the costs.

Your "narrative" of both sides do it is reminding me of atheism as a religion (which I think is a valid claim).

To be fair, here's your chance to take a stab at how many deaths and long term health effects are acceptable. Go!

Gil and you both have a narrative or agenda. You might not think it's one because, in your opinion, you're just "pointing out facts" or speaking the truth.

There are costs to fighting to virus and costs to letting it runs its course. The best approach is somewhere in the middle but it's become so political that I don't think anyone is really trying to quantify the various costs so that we can make rational decisions.

I'll answer your question after you answer one I've asked before - how many deaths and damaged lives are acceptable in the course of fighting the virus?

Also, it's illiberal to dismiss the perspectives of people with whom you disagree.

[kalm]

This.

Keeping the virus around longer than if more aggressive mitigating actions were taken can also increase the costs.

Your "narrative" of both sides do it is reminding me of atheism as a religion (which I think is a valid claim).

To be fair, here's your chance to take a stab at how many deaths and long term health effects are acceptable. Go!

Gil and you both have a narrative or agenda. You might not think it's one because, in your opinion, you're just "pointing out facts" or speaking the truth.

There are costs to fighting to virus and costs to letting it runs its course. The best approach is somewhere in the middle but it's become so political that I don't think anyone is really trying to quantify the various costs so that we can make rational decisions.

I'll answer your question after you answer one I've asked before - how many deaths and damaged lives are acceptable in the course of fighting the virus?

Also, it's illiberal to dismiss the perspectives of people with whom you disagree.

Well I guess we all have “narratives” don’t we.

You won’t answer my question for similar reasons. It’s a tough one. What I do know is that compared to most of the world we’ve had similar economic outcomes with WAY more deaths. It Of course it still has to play out, but there’s little assurance out there that prolonging the disease pays off economically.

I try and dismiss only unreasonable arguments. I’m not perfect. Just more liberal than some.

[HI54UNI]

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

I would guess that on average, students have gotten half of what they would have from in-person learning over the last year - that's a lost semester of academic learning. Fiver, would you agree? You can sit in your bubble and think kids are fine because they can go to school remotely but the learning isn't the same and the loss of social interaction is taking a toll on their mental health.

Generally speaking I would agree. We shut down a year ago and didn't finish out spring of last year. We did some online stuff but weren't really prepared for it. We have been back in school full time, in person since August 14. I know people don't like standardized testing but we do a fair amount of it because while not perfect it can help us spot trends. Usually over the summer kids lose a little as you would expect. This year they lost a lot.

When we started back we also offered an online only option for kids as well. About 8% of our students chose that option. Totally parental choice, no proof of need, medical reasoning, etc. At the start of the 2nd semester in January the school board voted to end that. Now you have to have something in writing from a doctor to do online. We did that because 75% of the kids choosing the online option were failing one or more classes. If there is no parental supervision about what kids are doing it is a recipe for disaster.

My son had to quarantine for 2 weeks and he absolutely hated it. And he doesn't like school but online was even worse. We've had no spread in school. Every case has been contact traced to family or someone outside of school. That goes for both teachers and students. We've also added extra counseling services this year because of the increased stress kids are under.

[Gil Dobie]

What is my narrative, beside pointing out facts?

You missed my post on teen suicides not increasing in 2020 because more people are seeking help.

How is keeping vulnerable people away from schools, hurting academic struggles, economic losses, increase in depression, dependency & suicides, civil liberties etc.??????????

You're the one who brought personal narratives into this ("Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for."). Your narrative/agenda is to push to save every life possible while ignoring or minimizing the costs of those efforts.

Opening schools, but keeping vulnerable people from the schools is ignoring or minimizing the cost of those effort

Teen suicides aren't increasing, is that because the lockdowns haven't impacted teens or because of independent efforts to get people to seek help? How about adult suicides? I see a lot more ads on TV and Facebook posts about seeking help if you're depressed.

Lockdowns and restrictions that close schools and keep healthy people away are hurting academic performance. Anecdotal but relevant - my daughter was a straight-A student before the lockdowns, she's struggling to maintain a B average since the lockdowns started. My ex has to spend time monitoring her during the day which hurts her job performance. The teachers didn't even notice my daughter's struggles until we pointed them out because they were focused on the many students who are failing. I would guess that on average, students have gotten half of what they would have from in-person learning over the last year - that's a lost semester of academic learning. Fiver, would you agree? You can sit in your bubble and think kids are fine because they can go to school remotely but the learning isn't the same and the loss of social interaction is taking a toll on their mental health. That is a cost of keeping people safe that should be considered. Or we can open the schools and save the stimulus dollars to support those who are at-risk to stay home rather than giving a bribe to every Tom, Dick & Harry who has submitted a 1040.

Economic losses, are you kidding me? We wouldn't need stimulus dollars if there weren't economic losses. Think about restaurants that have been closed or at a fraction of capacity or small landlords who can't collect rent. They and their employees are hurting and they're not the only ones.

Forcing people to wear masks in public spaces is a degradation of civil liberties. It might be justified but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about what else could be imposed upon us by the government.

You're the one who brought personal narratives into this ("Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for."). Your narrative/agenda is to push to save every life possible while ignoring or minimizing the costs of those efforts.

Did you miss the last three times I said, opening schools, but keeping vulnerable people from the schools is my narrative.

I don't support lockdowns, why are you lumping me with lockdowns. I support masks, but if you don't wear one that's your choice. Not a good choice IMO, but your choice. I get scolded by the anti-maskers every time I bring them up, but I tend to believe my personal physician over the scolders.

I would continue, but you are not on the same page with what my narrative is. You are lumping me in some weird category.

[Gil Dobie]

I would guess that on average, students have gotten half of what they would have from in-person learning over the last year - that's a lost semester of academic learning. Fiver, would you agree? You can sit in your bubble and think kids are fine because they can go to school remotely but the learning isn't the same and the loss of social interaction is taking a toll on their mental health.

Generally speaking I would agree. We shut down a year ago and didn't finish out spring of last year. We did some online stuff but weren't really prepared for it. We have been back in school full time, in person since August 14. I know people don't like standardized testing but we do a fair amount of it because while not perfect it can help us spot trends. Usually over the summer kids lose a little as you would expect. This year they lost a lot.

When we started back we also offered an online only option for kids as well. About 8% of our students chose that option. Totally parental choice, no proof of need, medical reasoning, etc. At the start of the 2nd semester in January the school board voted to end that. Now you have to have something in writing from a doctor to do online. We did that because 75% of the kids choosing the online option were failing one or more classes. If there is no parental supervision about what kids are doing it is a recipe for disaster.

My son had to quarantine for 2 weeks and he absolutely hated it. And he doesn't like school but online was even worse. We've had no spread in school. Every case has been contact traced to family or someone outside of school. That goes for both teachers and students. We've also added extra counseling services this year because of the increased stress kids are under.

My grandson has been attending in-person classes since fall, except for a month after 1 student tested positive. No spread in his school. It's great that your school has not had any spread. The larger schools in metro areas, and a few out state schools, are not having the same success.

[HI54UNI]

Generally speaking I would agree. We shut down a year ago and didn't finish out spring of last year. We did some online stuff but weren't really prepared for it. We have been back in school full time, in person since August 14. I know people don't like standardized testing but we do a fair amount of it because while not perfect it can help us spot trends. Usually over the summer kids lose a little as you would expect. This year they lost a lot.

When we started back we also offered an online only option for kids as well. About 8% of our students chose that option. Totally parental choice, no proof of need, medical reasoning, etc. At the start of the 2nd semester in January the school board voted to end that. Now you have to have something in writing from a doctor to do online. We did that because 75% of the kids choosing the online option were failing one or more classes. If there is no parental supervision about what kids are doing it is a recipe for disaster.

My son had to quarantine for 2 weeks and he absolutely hated it. And he doesn't like school but online was even worse. We've had no spread in school. Every case has been contact traced to family or someone outside of school. That goes for both teachers and students. We've also added extra counseling services this year because of the increased stress kids are under.

My grandson has been attending in-person classes since fall, except for a month after 1 student tested positive. No spread in his school. It's great that your school has not had any spread. The larger schools in metro areas, and a few out state schools, are not having the same success.

They closed the whole school for 1 person testing positive?

[Gil Dobie]

My grandson has been attending in-person classes since fall, except for a month after 1 student tested positive. No spread in his school. It's great that your school has not had any spread. The larger schools in metro areas, and a few out state schools, are not having the same success.

They closed the whole school for 1 person testing positive?

Private school with around 30 students.

[SDHornet]

Cue klammy or gil with a "but muh lockdowns work" in

I'm not a lockdown supporter, but these states are on opposite ends of the country. You have to find common denominators other than population to compare them fairly.

Have a feeling the are a lot of Cali's that are saying F the lockdown, F the mask and F Newsom. Seeing that in Minnesota as the numbers are going up again.

Problem with this is that FL has an older population. They should have been dropping like flies with no lockdown, right?

[SDHornet]

I really haven't had time to look into it. Just some quick Google searches. I would bet all I own that it has spread in schools in Iowa. I'm sure there are political media sites that deny it, but it's a virus, not a political entity. Lies on both sides of the political spectrum.

And I'm telling you as a school board member that gets weekly updates from our school supt and our state school association that there is no significant spread occurring in schools.

This is where you put the shovel down, gil.

[UNI88]

You're the one who brought personal narratives into this ("Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for."). Your narrative/agenda is to push to save every life possible while ignoring or minimizing the costs of those efforts.

Opening schools, but keeping vulnerable people from the schools is ignoring or minimizing the cost of those effort

Teen suicides aren't increasing, is that because the lockdowns haven't impacted teens or because of independent efforts to get people to seek help? How about adult suicides? I see a lot more ads on TV and Facebook posts about seeking help if you're depressed.

Lockdowns and restrictions that close schools and keep healthy people away are hurting academic performance. Anecdotal but relevant - my daughter was a straight-A student before the lockdowns, she's struggling to maintain a B average since the lockdowns started. My ex has to spend time monitoring her during the day which hurts her job performance. The teachers didn't even notice my daughter's struggles until we pointed them out because they were focused on the many students who are failing. I would guess that on average, students have gotten half of what they would have from in-person learning over the last year - that's a lost semester of academic learning. Fiver, would you agree? You can sit in your bubble and think kids are fine because they can go to school remotely but the learning isn't the same and the loss of social interaction is taking a toll on their mental health. That is a cost of keeping people safe that should be considered. Or we can open the schools and save the stimulus dollars to support those who are at-risk to stay home rather than giving a bribe to every Tom, Dick & Harry who has submitted a 1040.

Economic losses, are you kidding me? We wouldn't need stimulus dollars if there weren't economic losses. Think about restaurants that have been closed or at a fraction of capacity or small landlords who can't collect rent. They and their employees are hurting and they're not the only ones.

Forcing people to wear masks in public spaces is a degradation of civil liberties. It might be justified but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about what else could be imposed upon us by the government.

You're the one who brought personal narratives into this ("Significant is a relative term, depending on a narrative a person or group is pushing for."). Your narrative/agenda is to push to save every life possible while ignoring or minimizing the costs of those efforts.

Did you miss the last three times I said, opening schools, but keeping vulnerable people from the schools is my narrative.

I don't support lockdowns, why are you lumping me with lockdowns. I support masks, but if you don't wear one that's your choice. Not a good choice IMO, but your choice. I get scolded by the anti-maskers every time I bring them up, but I tend to believe my personal physician over the scolders.

I would continue, but you are not on the same page with what my narrative is. You are lumping me in some weird category.

You're sending mixed messages. You say you support opening schools but then you bring up examples of students or teachers getting the virus.

[Gil Dobie]

Did you miss the last three times I said, opening schools, but keeping vulnerable people from the schools is my narrative.

I don't support lockdowns, why are you lumping me with lockdowns. I support masks, but if you don't wear one that's your choice. Not a good choice IMO, but your choice. I get scolded by the anti-maskers every time I bring them up, but I tend to believe my personal physician over the scolders.

I would continue, but you are not on the same page with what my narrative is. You are lumping me in some weird category.

You're sending mixed messages. You say you support opening schools but then you bring up examples of students or teachers getting the virus.

No, just facts. Covid spreads thru healthy people too. Young an healthy will more than likely survive. Open schools and keep vulnerable people away from school.

[Gil Dobie]

And I'm telling you as a school board member that gets weekly updates from our school supt and our state school association that there is no significant spread occurring in schools.

This is where you put the shovel down, gil.

I've been talking Iowa schools, Fiver looks like he was talking his school. We were not communicating on the same subject matter.

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not a lockdown supporter, but these states are on opposite ends of the country. You have to find common denominators other than population to compare them fairly.

Have a feeling the are a lot of Cali's that are saying F the lockdown, F the mask and F Newsom. Seeing that in Minnesota as the numbers are going up again.

Problem with this is that FL has an older population. They should have been dropping like flies with no lockdown, right?

Some of older people that died are snowbirds. Their their death is counted by their home state. Also. There may be no lockdown, but it's not business as usuall. Disney, Bush Gardens, pro sports, etc, all have limited attendance. By the way, I don't support lockdowns.