Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

[SDHornet]

So you are arguing when warrants shouldn't be enforced?

Nothing like a white guy from Iowa telling a Brown person born and raised in the hood about the injustices by the police. But please, tell me more.

Where did I argue a warrant shouldn't be enforced?

If you'll read what I said, I had no issues with the warrant being enforced. I had no issues with the idea of using a taser to stop him from driving away. I take issue with the reason for the stop, as it's been something patrol has been told not to stop for at this time. They had no idea who was in the car and only discovered a warrant after the stop. They didn't see him in the car and recognize his face by memory and go "He has a warrant, he needs to be stopped.".

Literally, everything about this situation could have, and should have, never been put in motion from the start. To excuse any idea of his murder because he had a warrant or because he resisted non violently because "you shouldn't resist or you get what you get" or anything like that is silly.

Again, I've said multiple times about even being willing to take race out of these topics and just looking at it from a systemic issue with police hiring practices. We have an issue with officers being protected after repeated abuses of power. We have a systematic issue across the police force nationally. This female officer resigned this morning. She wasn't fired for killing the man. She was placed on administrative leave with the chief of police stating there was no intention to fire her because he thought it was an accidental discharge. If she didn't resign she would still be paid to stay home and then go back on patrol. Even when officers are terminated for repeated abuses of their power they just go one jurisdiction over and get hired there.

It's pretty clear the Police Chief had no intention to act, and wasn't able to handle his role. Same with the City Manager. They have both been relieve of their duties and a new Chief of Police is in place. The command of the police has also been moved to the office of the mayor rather than the police department.

I would love for you to point out how I've said warrants shouldn't be enforced. How I support the violent destruction of property. I've not said that.

So selective enforcement. Yeah what could go wrong. Hell why enforce anything, why need police...oh yeah...

[SDHornet]

I interpreted Andy's reference to peaceful protesting to be tongue-in-cheek. Maybe he should have put it in parenthesis or added an emoji.

Peaceful protests are fine, they bring attention to a problem and hopefully force elected officials to address it rationally. It's the riots and looting that aren't ok and shouldn't be tolerated.

I think anyone who isn't seeing red out of anger would read it the same way 88. That's why I said it's really pointless to engage Clenz on this.

He's on tilt which makes him a prime target for trolling.

[UNI88]

Old Joe was my Congress critter for a second. I used to think he was a right-wing crackpot but he's starting to grow on me. I find standing up for what you feel is right rather than spouting the party/MAGAt line appealing.

[AZGrizFan]

Where did I argue a warrant shouldn't be enforced?

If you'll read what I said, I had no issues with the warrant being enforced. I had no issues with the idea of using a taser to stop him from driving away. I take issue with the reason for the stop, as it's been something patrol has been told not to stop for at this time. They had no idea who was in the car and only discovered a warrant after the stop. They didn't see him in the car and recognize his face by memory and go "He has a warrant, he needs to be stopped.".

Literally, everything about this situation could have, and should have, never been put in motion from the start. To excuse any idea of his murder because he had a warrant or because he resisted non violently because "you shouldn't resist or you get what you get" or anything like that is silly.

Cops know this: about 75% of the time, if someone is driving with expired tags, expired temp tags, a headlight or taillight out, etc., they've got a bench warrant out for something. Especially in certain areas.

Question: is it or is it not illegal to drive with expired tags?
Question #2: How does one "resist" nonviolently? Once he moved to reenter the car, he could be going to grab ANYTHING. I ask again: are YOU going to sit there and wait to see what he's reaching for? Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

[clenz]

Where did I argue a warrant shouldn't be enforced?

If you'll read what I said, I had no issues with the warrant being enforced. I had no issues with the idea of using a taser to stop him from driving away. I take issue with the reason for the stop, as it's been something patrol has been told not to stop for at this time. They had no idea who was in the car and only discovered a warrant after the stop. They didn't see him in the car and recognize his face by memory and go "He has a warrant, he needs to be stopped.".

Literally, everything about this situation could have, and should have, never been put in motion from the start. To excuse any idea of his murder because he had a warrant or because he resisted non violently because "you shouldn't resist or you get what you get" or anything like that is silly.

Cops know this: about 75% of the time, if someone is driving with expired tags, expired temp tags, a headlight or taillight out, etc., they've got a bench warrant out for something. Especially in certain areas.

Question: is it or is it not illegal to drive with expired tags?
Question #2: How does one "resist" nonviolently? Once he moved to reenter the car, he could be going to grab ANYTHING. I ask again: are YOU going to sit there and wait to see what he's reaching for? Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

Answer #1: Already been addressed in this thread. MDOT is months behind on tags. Like 2 if you are lucky, and some are waiting 4 to 6 months. Patrol officers have been made aware of this and have been instructed NOT to pull people over for tags. Including officers in Brooklyn Center. You can be driving on expired tags on your car for up to 6 months and still actually be completely legal because of the backlog due to COVID.

Answer #2: Look at the Chauvin case for prime examples of how one can be "resisting" yet it isn't violent. The defense is claiming the use of force was warranted to the very end because simply by George Floyd stating "I can't breathe" after he was in cuffs with 3 police officers kneeling on him is still considered resisting. The defense has tried to create a world, and actually, it does exist with how police enforce it, that doing literally anything is considered resisting. Would you consider that violently resisting? Does getting in a car count as violent? Everyone time anyone gets in a car at this point is it an inherently violent action?

[89Hen]

Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

Just in 2021 and this doesn't include nearly all those killed in the line of duty...

Sergeant Jim Smith was shot and killed while attempting to arrest a subject who had assaulted and disarmed another law enforcement officer during a traffic stop near Grundy Center.

The subject initially fled as officers attempted to stop him but stopped and confronted them and antagonized them to shoot him. The man then assaulted one of the officers and disarmed him after placing the officer in a chokehold. He was able to get back into his car and fled to his home at 305 G Avenue.

Trooper Chad Walker succumbed to gunshot wounds sustained five days earlier when he was ambushed while stopping to assist what he believed was a disabled vehicle near Mexia, Texas.

Police Officer Kevin Valencia succumbed to complications of gunshot wounds sustained on June 11th, 2018, while responding to a domestic disturbance at 4932 Eaglesmere Drive.

Captain Justin Bedwell succumbed to a gunshot wound sustained two days earlier following a vehicle pursuit of two brothers that started in neighboring Seminole County.

The pursuit started when Seminole County deputies attempted to conduct a traffic stop of a pickup truck for reckless driving. The vehicle fled and the occupants opened fire on the deputies, who pursued them into Decatur County.

Police Officer Nick Winum was shot and killed while conducting a traffic stop near Judy Lane at approximately 3:30 pm.

An occupant of the vehicle got out and opened fire on Officer Winum before he was able to get out of his patrol car.

Patrolman Darian Jarrott was shot and killed while conducting a traffic stop of a known offender on I-10 near milepost 101 in Luna County.

Lieutenant Michael Boutte was shot and killed after responding to a call involving a subject attempting suicide on Caesar Necaise Road in the town of Necaise.

Lieutenant Boutte was shot and critically wounded as he exited his patrol car.

Deputy Sheriff Adam Gibson and K9 Riley were shot and killed in the parking lot of the Cal Expo and State Fair facility following a vehicle pursuit of a parolee.

Agent Luis Marrero-Díaz and Agent Eliezer Hernández-Cartagena, of the Carolina Municipal Police Department, were murdered while attempting to arrest a man who had just murdered Agent Luis Salamán-Conde, of the Carolina Municipal Police Department.

Agent Salamán-Conde had responded to a vehicle crash on Avenida Roberto Clemente. One of the drivers involved in the crash opened fire on him with an AK-47 rifle, killing him.

[kalm]

Where did I argue a warrant shouldn't be enforced?

If you'll read what I said, I had no issues with the warrant being enforced. I had no issues with the idea of using a taser to stop him from driving away. I take issue with the reason for the stop, as it's been something patrol has been told not to stop for at this time. They had no idea who was in the car and only discovered a warrant after the stop. They didn't see him in the car and recognize his face by memory and go "He has a warrant, he needs to be stopped.".

Literally, everything about this situation could have, and should have, never been put in motion from the start. To excuse any idea of his murder because he had a warrant or because he resisted non violently because "you shouldn't resist or you get what you get" or anything like that is silly.

Cops know this: about 75% of the time, if someone is driving with expired tags, expired temp tags, a headlight or taillight out, etc., they've got a bench warrant out for something. Especially in certain areas.

Question: is it or is it not illegal to drive with expired tags?
Question #2: How does one "resist" nonviolently? Once he moved to reenter the car, he could be going to grab ANYTHING. I ask again: are YOU going to sit there and wait to see what he's reaching for? Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

I’ve done all 4...somehow without bench warrants...

[AZGrizFan]

Cops know this: about 75% of the time, if someone is driving with expired tags, expired temp tags, a headlight or taillight out, etc., they've got a bench warrant out for something. Especially in certain areas.

Question: is it or is it not illegal to drive with expired tags?
Question #2: How does one "resist" nonviolently? Once he moved to reenter the car, he could be going to grab ANYTHING. I ask again: are YOU going to sit there and wait to see what he's reaching for? Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

I’ve done all 4...somehow without bench warrants...

As have I. Doesn't change the statistics.

[AZGrizFan]

Cops know this: about 75% of the time, if someone is driving with expired tags, expired temp tags, a headlight or taillight out, etc., they've got a bench warrant out for something. Especially in certain areas.

Question: is it or is it not illegal to drive with expired tags?
Question #2: How does one "resist" nonviolently? Once he moved to reenter the car, he could be going to grab ANYTHING. I ask again: are YOU going to sit there and wait to see what he's reaching for? Just watch the video of the NM cop getting executed by the guy he asked to step out of the vehicle.

Answer #1: Already been addressed in this thread. MDOT is months behind on tags. Like 2 if you are lucky, and some are waiting 4 to 6 months. Patrol officers have been made aware of this and have been instructed NOT to pull people over for tags. Including officers in Brooklyn Center. You can be driving on expired tags on your car for up to 6 months and still actually be completely legal because of the backlog due to COVID.

Answer #2: Look at the Chauvin case for prime examples of how one can be "resisting" yet it isn't violent. The defense is claiming the use of force was warranted to the very end because simply by George Floyd stating "I can't breathe" after he was in cuffs with 3 police officers kneeling on him is still considered resisting. The defense has tried to create a world, and actually, it does exist with how police enforce it, that doing literally anything is considered resisting. Would you consider that violently resisting? Does getting in a car count as violent? Everyone time anyone gets in a car at this point is it an inherently violent action?

Answer to #2: Yes. If you're told to stand there with your hands on the car, and you choose to REENTER the car, you can be damned sure I am not waiting to see what you come back out with, or what you point in my direction.

Why is it so fucking hard to just do what you're told?

[kalm]

I’ve done all 4...somehow without bench warrants...

As have I. Doesn't change the statistics.

Rebel.

[AZGrizFan]

As have I. Doesn't change the statistics.

Rebel.

And I've been pulled over for a headlight out and taillights out. Guess what I did? I turned on the dome light, put my hands on the steering wheel, said "yes sir" and "no sir" a lot, took my ticket and moved along. I didn't attempt to flee or give the officer a reason to think I might be reaching for a weapon. But hey, that's just my white privilege showing through, amirite???

[CID1990]

Exactly. How in the hell does that happen if she has the taser holstered opposite side of her gun? In other words, right handed person has right handed holster for glock, taser on the left, so no accidentally grabbing the wrong one. And aren’t the tasers bright yellow so there can be no mistake?

The Brooklyn Center Police Policy and Training book is available to be seen by the public. Turns out taser training is required YEARLY the department. This is apparently a "very senior officer" according to the Police Chief.

How the fuck does a senior officer who has gone through yearly training on taser usage make that mistake?

My guess is she drew the gun intentionally to be Barbara Badass and then forgot she had her gun, felt something in her hand, assuming it was a taser, and pulled the trigger.

In the heat of the moment, your brain does things for you - when your adrenaline is up

We always kept our tasers on our weak side, so there could be no mistake. You have to either cross draw the taser, or weak hand draw it. There were a couple times when I was in potential deadly force situation where my firearm just appeared in my hand - I had drawn it from pure muscle memory

My guess is that her taser and firearm were both on her strong side. If that is the case, then I’d go with muscle memory

If the taser was on her weak side, then maybe you could be right but I suspect she meant to have the taser out all along


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[SDHornet]

[AZGrizFan]

The Brooklyn Center Police Policy and Training book is available to be seen by the public. Turns out taser training is required YEARLY the department. This is apparently a "very senior officer" according to the Police Chief.

How the fuck does a senior officer who has gone through yearly training on taser usage make that mistake?

My guess is she drew the gun intentionally to be Barbara Badass and then forgot she had her gun, felt something in her hand, assuming it was a taser, and pulled the trigger.

In the heat of the moment, your brain does things for you - when your adrenaline is up

We always kept our tasers on our weak side, so there could be no mistake. You have to either cross draw the taser, or weak hand draw it. There were a couple times when I was in potential deadly force situation where my firearm just appeared in my hand - I had drawn it from pure muscle memory

My guess is that her taser and firearm were both on her strong side. If that is the case, then I’d go with muscle memory

If the taser was on her weak side, then maybe you could be right but I suspect she meant to have the taser out all along


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. Not buying it. Clenz is the expert here, and he's got it all figured out. Humans do NOT make mistakes. She intended to kill that motherfucker.

[Skjellyfetti]

She should be held liable - criminally, civilly, and professionally.

Whether she meant to or not affects what she should be charged with. She should also be open to a wrongful death suit and she should lose her badge, pension, etc.

[AZGrizFan]

She should be held liable - criminally, civilly, and professionally.

Whether she meant to or not affects what she should be charged with. She should also be open to a wrongful death suit and she should lose her badge, pension, etc.

Don't worry, Clenzy has already tried and convicted her. S'all good, bro.

[clenz]

In the heat of the moment, your brain does things for you - when your adrenaline is up

We always kept our tasers on our weak side, so there could be no mistake. You have to either cross draw the taser, or weak hand draw it. There were a couple times when I was in potential deadly force situation where my firearm just appeared in my hand - I had drawn it from pure muscle memory

My guess is that her taser and firearm were both on her strong side. If that is the case, then I’d go with muscle memory

If the taser was on her weak side, then maybe you could be right but I suspect she meant to have the taser out all along


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. Not buying it. Clenz is the expert here, and he's got it all figured out. Humans do NOT make mistakes. She intended to kill that motherfucker.

I would ask you to show where I said it was intentional.

[AZGrizFan]

Nope. Not buying it. Clenz is the expert here, and he's got it all figured out. Humans do NOT make mistakes. She intended to kill that motherfucker.

I would ask you to show where I said it was intentional.

How the fuck does a senior officer who has gone through yearly training on taser usage make that mistake?

My guess is she drew the gun intentionally to be Barbara Badass and then forgot she had her gun, felt something in her hand, assuming it was a taser, and pulled the trigger.

Her badassery got out of control, apparently.

[clenz]

The Brooklyn Center Police Policy and Training book is available to be seen by the public. Turns out taser training is required YEARLY the department. This is apparently a "very senior officer" according to the Police Chief.

How the fuck does a senior officer who has gone through yearly training on taser usage make that mistake?

My guess is she drew the gun intentionally to be Barbara Badass and then forgot she had her gun, felt something in her hand, assuming it was a taser, and pulled the trigger.

In the heat of the moment, your brain does things for you - when your adrenaline is up

We always kept our tasers on our weak side, so there could be no mistake. You have to either cross draw the taser, or weak hand draw it. There were a couple times when I was in potential deadly force situation where my firearm just appeared in my hand - I had drawn it from pure muscle memory

My guess is that her taser and firearm were both on her strong side. If that is the case, then I’d go with muscle memory

If the taser was on her weak side, then maybe you could be right but I suspect she meant to have the taser out all along


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BCPD policy states that they are worn on the other weak side of the body. The police chief confirmed yesterday. Also confirmed that she was a "very senior" member of the force and has undergone numerous trainings per year over their use. I have no doubt she intended to use her taser, but right now there should be some significant questions as to why she didn't realize she had her hand gun. It wasn't pulled in the moment. Body cam footage shows she had it out for a not-insignificant amount of time. The standard issue police pistol weighs approximately 34 ounces and has a handgun grip to it (as to be expected). Tasers are bright yellow, weigh 8 ounces (based on what I can find, just as with the pistol) and don't have the grip of a pistol.


Again, I'll go back to how it's now acceptable for police to lose their heads and kill someone because they got worked up to do the job they are supposed to do, yet citizens interacting with the police are expected to be 1000% calm at all times no matter what.

She may not have meant to kill him, but she did. You still get charged and go to jail for "not meaning too". She should be charged. She should go to jail.

I'm not sure how me saying that has twisted into this anti-cop or whatever Z is trying to make it.

She killed a man. We saw it happen. She should be treated as anyone else who killed someone, even if "didn't mean too"

[clenz]

I would ask you to show where I said it was intentional.

How the fuck does a senior officer who has gone through yearly training on taser usage make that mistake?

My guess is she drew the gun intentionally to be Barbara Badass and then forgot she had her gun, felt something in her hand, assuming it was a taser, and pulled the trigger.

Her badassery got out of control, apparently.

Still not me saying it was intentional.

Drew the gun initially intentionally? Yes
Forgot to switch to the taser? Yes
Shot and killed someone? Also yes.

Notice how you aren't actually proving anything you're claiming I said. What I described is the definition of a taser and meets CIDs statements about forgetting what was in her hand in the moment.

Doesn't change the fact she shot and killed someone and should be charged as such.

[Gil Dobie]

Officer and Police Chief of Brooklyn Center resigned today.

[SDHornet]

Daunte Wright choked a woman and threatened to shoot her if she did not hand over $820 she had stuffed in her bra, court papers obtained by DailyMail.com allege.

That is the case that led to a warrant for his arrest at the time he was shot and killed by police officer Kimberly Potter in Minnesota on Sunday, leading to days of unrest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ailymailus

But you know, don't enforce traffic violations that can potentially get these shit bags off the streets.

Good job blm, you've selected another great martyr to burn down a city over.

[SDHornet]

Officer and Police Chief of Brooklyn Center resigned today.

Don't forget the City Manager that was fired for saying the cop deserves due process.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/city-ma ... 55245.html

[UNI88]

Officer and Police Chief of Brooklyn Center resigned today.

Don't forget the City Manager that was fired for saying the cop deserves due process.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/city-ma ... 55245.html

What's the argument against due process? That Daunte Wright didn't get it so neither should the cop? That's a great foundation for justice.

[Gil Dobie]

Don't forget the City Manager that was fired for saying the cop deserves due process.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/city-ma ... 55245.html

What's the argument against due process? That Daunte Wright didn't get it so neither should the cop? That's a great foundation for justice.

The Mayor is acting like Trump. If you disagree with him, you get fired.