Coronavirus COVID-19

[UNI88]

I listen to "Daily Drive" on Spotify each mornings. It's a blend of music and news. I typically skip the WaPo but today I listened.

Apparently, the wealthier countries are flexing their inequality by creating the COVID vaccine and then providing it to the poorer nations. Somehow, our ability to create a vaccine over some poorer country has created a "vaccine bias" and "vaccine inequality."

You can't make this crap up.

Vaccine privilege is real!

[89Hen]

Vaccine privilege is real!

[BDKJMU]

I listen to "Daily Drive" on Spotify each mornings. It's a blend of music and news. I typically skip the WaPo but today I listened.

Apparently, the wealthier countries are flexing their inequality by creating the COVID vaccine and then providing it to the poorer nations. Somehow, our ability to create a vaccine over some poorer country has created a "vaccine bias" and "vaccine inequality."

You can't make this crap up.

Vaccine privilege is real!

Vaccination rates in the US is highest for (non Hispanic) whites, is lagging for blacks and Hispanics. The vaccine must be racist...

[BDKJMU]

Vaccine privilege is real!

[CID1990]

The quote function isnt working on my phone for some reason.

This reply is for SG

Viruses do not behave that way universally. Just because you have had a virus does not mean you have gained more immunity compared to if you had a vaccination. mRNA vaccines force the immune system to target a very narrowly focused part of the receptor proteins. Actually having the virus does not do this.

Coronaviruses are a prime example - this is why the is little to zero known conferred immunity to the common cold, which is also caused by a coronavirus.

Declaring that acquired immunity is somehow > than a vaccine has zero basis in scientific fact

You are using logic to describe biological process - that is a fatal flaw


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Glad someone on this board is pushing back!

In regards to your statement there is zero scientific basis, I have to disagree. If you perform any search on natural immunity vs vaccination and sort results before COVID, the hits are littered with statements from Immunologists and Public Health officials about how natural immunity is better than vaccination...but you run the risk of the disease beating the crap out of you to get natural immunity. I'm not worried about that with COVID.

As to the common cold, there are other families besides Coronavirus, like Rhinovirus, etc and we have around 200 different versions of the cold, so that in my opinion is the largest reason we can't have a universal cold vaccine, plus colds mostly don't tax the immune system causing a huge immune response.

Lastly, we have three studies...albeit preprint, which means they haven't been peer reviewed.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... onses.aspx

Their findings reveal that, unlike vaccination, natural SARS-CoV-2 infection is associated with a robust interferon response together with an induction of cytotoxic gene expression in peripheral blood lymphocytes

Interferon response and cytotoxic gene expression (perforin plus other factors) are huge.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... ction.aspx

There was a difference between the antibodies elicited by natural infection compared to that from the vaccine. Since the vaccine does not have the nucleocapsid protein, there are no antibodies against this in the vaccine-induced antibodies. However, antibodies against nucleocapsid were seen in natural infection, suggesting this could be a biomarker for natural infection.

Nothing spectacular here, but I'm of the belief working through a virus naturally and having the whole virus leads to many benefits we haven't discovered.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/2 ... ssion=true

Specifically, of all infections during the study period, 99.3% occurred in participants who were not infected previously and remained unvaccinated. In contrast, only 0.7% of infections occurred in participants who were not previously infected but were currently vaccinated.

Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.

You catch that bolded part? Of the 55,000 people in the study, not a one was someone with natural immunity. All were from the vaccinated group. 55k x .07 = 3850

Not to mention the studies coming out showing SAR1 infected still have immunity 17 years later.

I have no beef with the vaccine, just think if you've had COVID, it's better than the vaccine. By the way, I am current on all my vaccines and so are my children.

I will see your long winded word salad which you do not understand, and raise you this (simply put):

Titers for SARS Cov-2 antibodies are higher for mRNA vaccinated persons than they are for COVID survivors. In literally every case.

That is a simple fact, easily found, and does not require a forest of poorly interpreted salad.


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[SeattleGriz]

Glad someone on this board is pushing back!

In regards to your statement there is zero scientific basis, I have to disagree. If you perform any search on natural immunity vs vaccination and sort results before COVID, the hits are littered with statements from Immunologists and Public Health officials about how natural immunity is better than vaccination...but you run the risk of the disease beating the crap out of you to get natural immunity. I'm not worried about that with COVID.

As to the common cold, there are other families besides Coronavirus, like Rhinovirus, etc and we have around 200 different versions of the cold, so that in my opinion is the largest reason we can't have a universal cold vaccine, plus colds mostly don't tax the immune system causing a huge immune response.

Lastly, we have three studies...albeit preprint, which means they haven't been peer reviewed.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... onses.aspx



Interferon response and cytotoxic gene expression (perforin plus other factors) are huge.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... ction.aspx



Nothing spectacular here, but I'm of the belief working through a virus naturally and having the whole virus leads to many benefits we haven't discovered.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/2 ... ssion=true



You catch that bolded part? Of the 55,000 people in the study, not a one was someone with natural immunity. All were from the vaccinated group. 55k x .07 = 3850

Not to mention the studies coming out showing SAR1 infected still have immunity 17 years later.

I have no beef with the vaccine, just think if you've had COVID, it's better than the vaccine. By the way, I am current on all my vaccines and so are my children.

I will see your long winded word salad which you do not understand, and raise you this (simply put):

Titers for SARS Cov-2 antibodies are higher for mRNA vaccinated persons than they are for COVID survivors. In literally every case.

That is a simple fact, easily found, and does not require a forest of poorly interpreted salad.


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I am familiar with that, as the vaccine was designed just for that purpose...to piss the immune system off so it mounts a strong response. You see the same thing with natural immunity when someone had a really bad case.

You've now cited ONE reason why you feel the vaccine provides better immunity, but offer no proof it actually is better. I've at least provided studies as to why I believe natural immunity is more comprehensive and better.

[AZGrizFan]

[SeattleGriz]

It's good to have this discussion. Notice the attacks on sources provided. Already resorting to logical fallacies. Not a good sign.

[SDHornet]

1) We do not know that there was a Chinese lab leak to cover up. People are WAY jumping to conclusions because of a report that some lab workers got sick. A lot of other nonsense going around too like that Quay guy saying the virus has a genetic characteristic that is unlikely for a coronavirus that evolved naturally when people who actually study coronaviruses say otherwise. Just all kinds of crap flying around right now.

2) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that letter. Zuckerberg proposed a "hub" to "make sure people can get authoritative information from reliable sources" and encourage people to practice social distancing while providing some ideas about doing it. THE HORROR.

If youu don‘t think the CPC knows exactly what happened then I‘ve got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. If the CPC had the proof it was Zoonotic they would have released it long ago. That leaves only a lab leak. They’ll try to keep that evidence from ever coming out because if how devastating it would be to China in the eyes of the world.

JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.

[SDHornet]

Did SG just jelly Cid?!?

WTF is going on here!

[kalm]

If youu don‘t think the CPC knows exactly what happened then I‘ve got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. If the CPC had the proof it was Zoonotic they would have released it long ago. That leaves only a lab leak. They’ll try to keep that evidence from ever coming out because if how devastating it would be to China in the eyes of the world.

JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.

It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.

[SDHornet]

JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.

It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.

Naw if this came from a bat at a wet market or a soup or some other random place we would have heard about it by now. There's a reason the Chicoms didn't let anyone in to do any serious investigations of the origin, and it wasn't to cover up a wet market.

[UNI88]

JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.

It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.

Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.

[kalm]

It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.

Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.

Both. Anything is possible including your comments regarding sycophants and the msm, but that’s kind of my point. Politicization creates a ton of useless noise.

[CID1990]

It's good to have this discussion. Notice the attacks on sources provided. Already resorting to logical fallacies. Not a good sign.

Feel free to point out the fallacious logic.

I’m not sure what you don’t understand about viral antibodies:

they are those wee little magical things that *actually* stop viruses from multiplying inside the cells of your body

In the world of science and medicine that’s what is called “immunity”. It is really that simple.

More antibodies = more immunity

If you know of examples where some virus has not followed this very elementary biological maxim, I’ll be happy to entertain them. But specifics, please. I noticed in your last two replies you started to retreat into a bit of that klam-like vagueness so you can later claim you said nothing of the sort.


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[UNI88]

Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.

Both. Anything is possible including your comments regarding sycophants and the msm, but that’s kind of my point. Politicization creates a ton of useless noise.

You're right. The problem is that the politicization happened by both sides. The anti-Trumpers and the CCP sycophants in the MSM and government beat down and dismissed the lab leak theory because Trump talked about it. That just fed the conspiracy theorists who don't trust the "deep state" and MSM anyway. People are criticizing them for being "short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias" when they didn't do the same when the zoonotic theory was presented as truth just over a year ago. Political bias and agenda, not scientific research is driving perspective and policy.

[Gil Dobie]

Stole this one from Cleets.

[CID1990]

Stole this one from Cleets.

That lady is an actual medical doctor




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[Gil Dobie]

My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.

[SDHornet]

My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.

If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA.

[Gil Dobie]

My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.

If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA.

Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.

[SDHornet]

If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA.

Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.

It was a joke Gil.

[Gil Dobie]

Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.

It was a joke Gil.

I know, didn't want to comeback, family related. Some other dick I would.

[SDHornet]

It was a joke Gil.

I know, didn't want to comeback, family related. Some other dick I would.

Fair enough.

[AZGrizFan]

My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.

That’s no conspiracy theory. I’m positive I caught it while on a cruise in December of 2019.