Question for Z and Tman

[TwinTownBisonFan]

popular misconception (you CAN get emergency heart surgery at a Walgreens, in a van out back... wait... was that... well, shit...)
the wait times in canada are largely overstate. there are waits for surgeries, but not for emergency surgeries, it's really not that much longer than in the US.

I correspond with a group of guys i met in Vegas on a regular basis who work for the Torries in Ottawa and they say a lot of that is overblown by opponents... keep in mind these guys are conks in canada...

So the wait is longer, just not much longer?


If Conks were trying to push something through that meant a longer wait, even if it was just a little one, Donks would be screaming just as hard as the Conks on now.


Fucking double standard

nobody who needs surgery immediately has to wait... it's not really any different here where people who can wait, do. the only difference is that anyone in canada who needs it can get it... unlike here.

[JMU DJ]

popular misconception (you CAN get emergency heart surgery at a Walgreens, in a van out back... wait... was that... well, shit...)
the wait times in canada are largely overstate. there are waits for surgeries, but not for emergency surgeries, it's really not that much longer than in the US.

I correspond with a group of guys i met in Vegas on a regular basis who work for the Torries in Ottawa and they say a lot of that is overblown by opponents... keep in mind these guys are conks in canada...

So the wait is longer, just not much longer?


If Conks were trying to push something through that meant a longer wait, even if it was just a little one, Donks would be screaming just as hard as the Conks on now.


Fucking double standard

Chad, it's not longer... if it's an emergency in Canada you see a doctor immediately. 9 out of 10 Canadians have personal doctors they can make Drs appointments with, much like you would in America. Even in America, if you want to get your eyes checked out you can end up waiting a week or two for an available appointment with the optometrist. It's the same on the Canadian health care system for non-emergency situations.

You're an angry fuck today Chadwick

[D1B]

So the wait is longer, just not much longer?


If Conks were trying to push something through that meant a longer wait, even if it was just a little one, Donks would be screaming just as hard as the Conks on now.


Fucking double standard

Chad, it's not longer... if it's an emergency in Canada you see a doctor immediately. 9 out of 10 Canadians have personal doctors they can make Drs appointments with, much like you would in America. Even in America, if you want to get your eyes checked out you can end up waiting a week or two for an available appointment with the optometrist. It's the same on the Canadian health care system for non-emergency situations.

You're an angry fuck today Chadwick

No, he's a dumbass young kid.

[D1B]

I'll try this again. Z, you gotta be payin a fortune for healthcare for your employees at the credit union, right? How much has your premiums gone up in the last 5 years?

What percentage of your labor expense is healthcare?

Any comment?

Z?


Crickets chirping........

[Wedgebuster]

Chad, it's not longer... if it's an emergency in Canada you see a doctor immediately. 9 out of 10 Canadians have personal doctors they can make Drs appointments with, much like you would in America. Even in America, if you want to get your eyes checked out you can end up waiting a week or two for an available appointment with the optometrist. It's the same on the Canadian health care system for non-emergency situations.

You're an angry fuck today Chadwick

No, he's a dumbass young kid.

Maybe a math lesson would prove a point? It will be 29 more years before clenz turns 50, and that milestone is where today's health insurance shoots into orbit. Lets calculate what his health insurance premium will be in 29 years working with the inflation rate within that industry for the last 10 or 15 years. About 700 bucks a month would be a good starting figure for a reasonably fit 50 year old male, with a $5,000. deductible.

I'm willing to bet that the number derived from that example will exceed $4,000. a month. Wages don't stand a chance of keeping up with that type of inflation, what would clenz then do?

[Ibanez]

No, he's a dumbass young kid.

Maybe a math lesson would prove a point? It will be 29 more years before clenz turns 50, and that milestone is where today's health insurance shoots into orbit. Lets calculate what his health insurance premium will be in 29 years working with the inflation rate within that industry for the last 10 or 15 years. About 700 bucks a month would be a good starting figure for a reasonably fit 50 year old male, with a $5,000. deductible.

I'm willing to bet that the number derived from that example will exceed $4,000. a month. Wages don't stand a chance of keeping up with that type of inflation, what would clenz then do?

Suck cock for coke, then sell the coke.

[wideright82]

No, he's a dumbass young kid.

Maybe a math lesson would prove a point? It will be 29 more years before clenz turns 50, and that milestone is where today's health insurance shoots into orbit. Lets calculate what his health insurance premium will be in 29 years working with the inflation rate within that industry for the last 10 or 15 years. About 700 bucks a month would be a good starting figure for a reasonably fit 50 year old male, with a $5,000. deductible.

I'm willing to bet that the number derived from that example will exceed $4,000. a month. Wages don't stand a chance of keeping up with that type of inflation, what would clenz then do?

edit:

[clenz]

So the wait is longer, just not much longer?


If Conks were trying to push something through that meant a longer wait, even if it was just a little one, Donks would be screaming just as hard as the Conks on now.


Fucking double standard

Chad, it's not longer... if it's an emergency in Canada you see a doctor immediately. 9 out of 10 Canadians have personal doctors they can make Drs appointments with, much like you would in America. Even in America, if you want to get your eyes checked out you can end up waiting a week or two for an available appointment with the optometrist. It's the same on the Canadian health care system for non-emergency situations.

You're an angry fuck today Chadwick

I'm just tired as fuck and instead of taking a nap or going to be I'm taking it out on everyone I talk too.

[UNI88]

Maybe a math lesson would prove a point? It will be 29 more years before clenz turns 50, and that milestone is where today's health insurance shoots into orbit. Lets calculate what his health insurance premium will be in 29 years working with the inflation rate within that industry for the last 10 or 15 years. About 700 bucks a month would be a good starting figure for a reasonably fit 50 year old male, with a $5,000. deductible.

I'm willing to bet that the number derived from that example will exceed $4,000. a month. Wages don't stand a chance of keeping up with that type of inflation, what would clenz then do?

1649/mo



700 * (1.03)^29 = 1649..... 3% is a very reasonable asumption for long term inflation. Even if we use our current CPI of 3.65 we won't see 4000. That is a completely irrational bet, and I hope u would never make it wedgie.

Sorry WR but I have to disagree. Healthcare inflation has been significanly higher than 3%. Our premiums have been going up 10-30% per year for the last several years. Inflation of 6.2% will put you at $4000/month so it isn't that farfetched.

[wideright82]

1649/mo



700 * (1.03)^29 = 1649..... 3% is a very reasonable asumption for long term inflation. Even if we use our current CPI of 3.65 we won't see 4000. That is a completely irrational bet, and I hope u would never make it wedgie.

Sorry WR but I have to disagree. Healthcare inflation has been significanly higher than 3%. Our premiums have been going up 10-30% per year for the last several years. Inflation of 6.2% will put you at $4000/month so it isn't that farfetched.

sorry didn't do inflation in the industry. I would be willing to bet for health care 6% is the more reasonable number. Same for LTC and Education. My b, my b.




3792/mo

[Wedgebuster]

Sorry WR but I have to disagree. Healthcare inflation has been significanly higher than 3%. Our premiums have been going up 10-30% per year for the last several years. Inflation of 6.2% will put you at $4000/month so it isn't that farfetched.

sorry didn't do inflation in the industry. I would be willing to bet for health care 6% is the more reasonable number. Same for LTC and Education. My b, my b.




3792/mo

6% is way low, 10% is good for illustration purposes, but unless there is reform, it too is too low.

[wideright82]

sorry didn't do inflation in the industry. I would be willing to bet for health care 6% is the more reasonable number. Same for LTC and Education. My b, my b.




3792/mo

6% is way low, 10% is good for illustration purposes, but unless there is reform, it too is too low.

Fair enough, @ 10%............. 11104/mo

[Wedgebuster]

6% is way low, 10% is good for illustration purposes, but unless there is reform, it too is too low.

Fair enough, @ 10%............. 11104/mo

clenz buddy, what was your major?

[AZGrizFan]

People now go to the emergency room LONG before it's "life threatening". There's also urgent care facilities, and health-care clinics in Walgreens, CVS Pharm's, etc. My wife took my sick daughter to Walgreens in-store clinic, the bill was $39. There are LOTS of options for people who don't have "coverage". And I'd bet a dollar to a donut that my premiums ain't seen NOTHIN' when compared to what they'll be under some genius mid-level bureaucrat's plan.

FFS, Z, you can't go to a Walgreens to get cancer treatment or emergency heart surgery. Stop oversimplifying shit.

Read your MASSIVE GENERALIZATION right above this post of yours to clenz, THEN tell somebody to not oversimplify.

[wideright82]

Fair enough, @ 10%............. 11104/mo

clenz buddy, what was your major?

120,000/year job in 29 years is 23,565/mo (@ 3% inflation)

[D1B]

FFS, Z, you can't go to a Walgreens to get cancer treatment or emergency heart surgery. Stop oversimplifying shit.

Read your MASSIVE GENERALIZATION right above this post of yours to clenz, THEN tell somebody to not oversimplify.

Z, what are your healthcare costs for your employees? Is it going up?

[AZGrizFan]

I'll try this again. Z, you gotta be payin a fortune for healthcare for your employees at the credit union, right? How much has your premiums gone up in the last 5 years?

What percentage of your labor expense is healthcare?

Any comment?

Z?


Crickets chirping........

sorry, I was in a meeting then immediately went to lunch. Here's the figures you asked for. I haven't been here 5 years, and don't have data to support going that far back. But here's what I DO know:

As soon as I got here, we renegotiated our contract, switched from Humana to United Healthcare, and cut our bill by 12%. That's right...CUT our bill by 12%. It's called-----COMPETITION.

Our annual healthcare premium expense is roughly $540,000 for a staff of 70 (plus about 40 dependents). Salaries run about $3.7 mil a year, so including ALL salaries and benefits (LTD, life ins, 401k matching, etc), total labor expense is running @ $4,639,203 annualized. That makes my healthcare costs roughly 11.6% of my annual labor expense, but just 2.4% of my total operating expense.

Here's three bills I pay each month that are MORE than my healthcare expense (aside from salaries):

1) Data processing expense
2) Credit & Debit card processing expense
3) Rent

Do something about THESE, will you Congress?

oh, and fyi, ALL of these pale in comparison to the amount of $$ I expense each month in charged off loans. In fact, year-to-date we've charged off over $5.9 million dollars in bad loans (that's a $10.4 million annualized clip, junior). It ain't HEALTHCARE COSTS that are causing companies to fail. It's the fact that the pay ethic in this country is GONE GONE GONE. Get these lazy co-dependant entitlement motherfuckers to just pay their fucking DEBTS, honor their CONTRACTS, and this country would be just fine.

But, that moral fiber is gone, irretrievably broken, and it ain't EVER coming back.

[AZGrizFan]

They've got access now.

Not when companies turn them down for pre-existing conditions...but I guess everyone who has some sort of condition only has themselves to blame, right?

You have no idea how this works, do you?

[clenz]

Fair enough, @ 10%............. 11104/mo

clenz buddy, what was your major?

I've in a very liberal major ass, and yet it is one of the lowest paying. I guess that is what doing a liberal thing will do...

[Wedgebuster]

clenz buddy, what was your major?

I've in a very liberal major ass, and yet it is one of the lowest paying. I guess that is what doing a liberal thing will do...

Looks like math man Wideright has you covered, providing you start out making $120,000 a year and grow your income every year.

No problemo!

[JMU DJ]

What's the tax cost to the public in order to pay for this? I've read that the government proposes to pay for this health care reform through tax additions to sales of goods... but is there a percentage increase or a tangible number that the average American could grasp? I've been looking around for the past half hour and all I can find is "tax additions".

[D1B]

I'll try this again. Z, you gotta be payin a fortune for healthcare for your employees at the credit union, right? How much has your premiums gone up in the last 5 years?

What percentage of your labor expense is healthcare?

Any comment?

Z?


Crickets chirping........

sorry, I was in a meeting then immediately went to lunch. Here's the figures you asked for. I haven't been here 5 years, and don't have data to support going that far back. But here's what I DO know:

As soon as I got here, we renegotiated our contract, switched from Humana to United Healthcare, and cut our bill by 12%. That's right...CUT our bill by 12%. It's called-----COMPETITION.

Our annual healthcare premium expense is roughly $540,000 for a staff of 70 (plus about 40 dependents). Salaries run about $3.7 mil a year, so including ALL salaries and benefits (LTD, life ins, 401k matching, etc), total labor expense is running @ $4,639,203 annualized. That makes my healthcare costs roughly 11.6% of my annual labor expense, but just 2.4% of my total operating expense.

Here's three bills I pay each month that are MORE than my healthcare expense (aside from salaries):

1) Data processing expense
2) Credit & Debit card processing expense
3) Rent

Do something about THESE, will you Congress?

oh, and fyi, ALL of these pale in comparison to the amount of $$ I expense each month in charged off loans. In fact, year-to-date we've charged off over $5.9 million dollars in bad loans (that's a $10.4 million annualized clip, junior). It ain't HEALTHCARE COSTS that are causing companies to fail. It's the fact that the pay ethic in this country is GONE GONE GONE. Get these lazy co-dependant entitlement motherfuckers to just pay their fucking DEBTS, honor their CONTRACTS, and this country would be just fine.

But, that moral fiber is gone, irretrievably broken, and it ain't EVER coming back.

Thanks for the info and congratulations on negotiating a new healthcare contract. I trust the new plan enhanced or at least did not reduce services.

You know as well as I do that if you were able to go back 5 years, current numbers would be dramatically higher. There is no end in sight unless we do something, like the rest of the industrialized world. Business could be investing their money in R&D or expansion, instead they're giving it to health insurers.

Healthcare reform + eliminating corporate tax = instant economic recovery.

[Wedgebuster]

sorry, I was in a meeting then immediately went to lunch. Here's the figures you asked for. I haven't been here 5 years, and don't have data to support going that far back. But here's what I DO know:

As soon as I got here, we renegotiated our contract, switched from Humana to United Healthcare, and cut our bill by 12%. That's right...CUT our bill by 12%. It's called-----COMPETITION.

Our annual healthcare premium expense is roughly $540,000 for a staff of 70 (plus about 40 dependents). Salaries run about $3.7 mil a year, so including ALL salaries and benefits (LTD, life ins, 401k matching, etc), total labor expense is running @ $4,639,203 annualized. That makes my healthcare costs roughly 11.6% of my annual labor expense, but just 2.4% of my total operating expense.

Here's three bills I pay each month that are MORE than my healthcare expense (aside from salaries):

1) Data processing expense
2) Credit & Debit card processing expense
3) Rent

Do something about THESE, will you Congress?

oh, and fyi, ALL of these pale in comparison to the amount of $$ I expense each month in charged off loans. In fact, year-to-date we've charged off over $5.9 million dollars in bad loans (that's a $10.4 million annualized clip, junior). It ain't HEALTHCARE COSTS that are causing companies to fail. It's the fact that the pay ethic in this country is GONE GONE GONE. Get these lazy co-dependant entitlement motherfuckers to just pay their fucking DEBTS, honor their CONTRACTS, and this country would be just fine.

But, that moral fiber is gone, irretrievably broken, and it ain't EVER coming back.

Thanks for the info and congratulations on negotiating a new healthcare contract. I trust the new plan enhanced or at least did not reduce services.

You know as well as I do that if you were able to go back 5 years, current numbers would be dramatically higher. There is no end in sight unless we do something, like the rest of the industrialized world. Business could be investing their money in R&D or expansion, instead they're giving it to health insurers.

Healthcare reform + eliminating corporate tax = instant economic recovery.

You bet! Just like at my wife's lawfirm, they find a new policy that raises the deductible by 4K, co-insurance to 50/50 from 80/20, and a net savings to the firm for her policy alone of $400.00 a month. The insurance is provided as a "benefit" so the firm keeps the cash.

Employee retention is likely to take a hit in the near future. Fuck those asswipes.

[Cleets Part 2]

I said (like 3 months ago) Obama would be better off just ignoring the Health Care issues in America like we have been...

Anybody interested in "fixing" something as broken as our health care system is only going to get blamed

Seriously... just walk away

[AZGrizFan]

Thanks for the info and congratulations on negotiating a new healthcare contract. I trust the new plan enhanced or at least did not reduce services.

You know as well as I do that if you were able to go back 5 years, current numbers would be dramatically higher. There is no end in sight unless we do something, like the rest of the industrialized world. Business could be investing their money in R&D or expansion, instead they're giving it to health insurers.

Healthcare reform + eliminating corporate tax = instant economic recovery.

You bet! Just like at my wife's lawfirm, they find a new policy that raises the deductible by 4K, co-insurance to 50/50 from 80/20, and a net savings to the firm for her policy alone of $400.00 a month. The insurance is provided as a "benefit" so the firm keeps the cash.

Employee retention is likely to take a hit in the near future. Fuck those asswipes.

Nope, not "just like your wife's law firm". Our policy didn't change ONE IOTA. And we pick up 89% of the cost for the employees, just like we always did. So, in this case, the employees got a RAISE, with the same coverage (and it's a VERY robust plan). We're just simple credit union folk, Wedgie, not some scum-of-the-earth law firm.