Coronavirus COVID-19

[kalm]

80 some my percent of American businesses are small and probably struggle to do what’s needed.

What's the answer then? Should the government should force them to do something they struggle to do? Or maybe instead of rushing through a stimulus package, our august leaders could have put a little thought into it and provided these businesses with assistance rather than shotgun blasting it to random businesses.

What percentage of American workers are employed by those small businesses?

Easy there, messenger marksman. I was just adding some context. There are no easy answers. I can quite easily argue both sides of this one.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't worry, I don't consider what you say to be mocking, just disconnected from reality and history.

Pro tip: random capitalizations and ancient slang like dipstick work better as old uncle rants on Facebook.

There's one person in this convo disconnected from reality, and it ain't me.

Ha! Old Uncle AZ has spoken!

[kalm]

80 some percent of American businesses are small and probably struggle to do what’s needed.

No doubt. But most people, perhaps I believe this naively, most small businesses try to do what's best for them and their employees within their memes.

I’d like to think so too but there’s an ever widening gulf between what small businesses would like to do, what they can can do, and what well heeled corporations already do.

[AZGrizFan]

What's the answer then? Should the government should force them to do something they struggle to do? Or maybe instead of rushing through a stimulus package, our august leaders could have put a little thought into it and provided these businesses with assistance rather than shotgun blasting it to random businesses.

What percentage of American workers are employed by those small businesses?

Easy there, messenger marksman. I was just adding some context. There are no easy answers. I can quite easily argue both sides of this one.

Agreed 100%. But your context doesn't change the fact that trip's absolutism gets him in trouble time and time again. I don't doubt there are businesses that took advantage of the opportunity to either 1) purge their payrolls of the unwanted, 2) trim expenses to ride out the storm, or 3) any number of other financial moves that impacted employees negatively, but to imply that NO businesses do good unless forced to by our omnipotent government is fucking comical at best.

[SeattleGriz]

Hmm. The great pivot is starting. Called this a couple of weeks ago.

[UNI88]

Easy there, messenger marksman. I was just adding some context. There are no easy answers. I can quite easily argue both sides of this one.

Agreed 100%. But your context doesn't change the fact that trip's absolutism gets him in trouble time and time again. I don't doubt there are businesses that took advantage of the opportunity to either 1) purge their payrolls of the unwanted, 2) trim expenses to ride out the storm, or 3) any number of other financial moves that impacted employees negatively, but to imply that NO businesses do good unless forced to by our omnipotent government is fucking comical at best.

Trip's absolutism also ignores the reality that the government can, has and will fvck over employees when it suits the whims of those in power. The Keystone Pipeline is an example of that. The government pretty much told those workers to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, get training and/or move to find new jobs.

[AZGrizFan]

Agreed 100%. But your context doesn't change the fact that trip's absolutism gets him in trouble time and time again. I don't doubt there are businesses that took advantage of the opportunity to either 1) purge their payrolls of the unwanted, 2) trim expenses to ride out the storm, or 3) any number of other financial moves that impacted employees negatively, but to imply that NO businesses do good unless forced to by our omnipotent government is fucking comical at best.

Trip's absolutism also ignores the reality that the government can, has and will fvck over employees when it suits the whims of those in power. The Keystone Pipeline is an example of that. The government pretty much told those workers to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, get training and/or move to find new jobs.

precisely. But now we're just piling on....

[SeattleGriz]

Agreed 100%. But your context doesn't change the fact that trip's absolutism gets him in trouble time and time again. I don't doubt there are businesses that took advantage of the opportunity to either 1) purge their payrolls of the unwanted, 2) trim expenses to ride out the storm, or 3) any number of other financial moves that impacted employees negatively, but to imply that NO businesses do good unless forced to by our omnipotent government is fucking comical at best.

Trip's absolutism also ignores the reality that the government can, has and will fvck over employees when it suits the whims of those in power. The Keystone Pipeline is an example of that. The government pretty much told those workers to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, get training and/or move to find new jobs.

No, they told them to go find the ever abundant green jobs. You know, switch from being a roughneck to building solar panels.

[Winterborn]

Agreed 100%. But your context doesn't change the fact that trip's absolutism gets him in trouble time and time again. I don't doubt there are businesses that took advantage of the opportunity to either 1) purge their payrolls of the unwanted, 2) trim expenses to ride out the storm, or 3) any number of other financial moves that impacted employees negatively, but to imply that NO businesses do good unless forced to by our omnipotent government is fucking comical at best.

Trip's absolutism also ignores the reality that the government can, has and will fvck over employees when it suits the whims of those in power. The Keystone Pipeline is an example of that. The government pretty much told those workers to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, get training and/or move to find new jobs.

Don't forget that big corporations were allowed to stay open but Mom & Pop stores couldn't follow the same plan and keep their doors open.

[UNI88]

Trip's absolutism also ignores the reality that the government can, has and will fvck over employees when it suits the whims of those in power. The Keystone Pipeline is an example of that. The government pretty much told those workers to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, get training and/or move to find new jobs.

Don't forget that big corporations were allowed to stay open but Mom & Pop stores couldn't follow the same plan and keep their doors open.

Forgot that little gem of whose side big government is on when it comes to picking winners and losers. Not sure why people trust the federal government to take care of them.

[Winterborn]

Don't forget that big corporations were allowed to stay open but Mom & Pop stores couldn't follow the same plan and keep their doors open.

Forgot that little gem of whose side big government is on when it comes to picking winners and losers. Not sure why people trust the federal government to take care of them.

People who like the illusion of safety and freedom.

[kalm]

Forgot that little gem of whose side big government is on when it comes to picking winners and losers. Not sure why people trust the federal government to take care of them.

People who like the illusion of safety and freedom.

And federally subsidized crop insurance, irrigation projects, railways, freeways, vaccine research, the internet....

[JohnStOnge]

I just did a quick and dirty analysis for myself to see if there is a correlation between vaccination rate by State and COVID-19 cases. So as not to take too much time I just went with cases reported on the last day on which at least ALMOST all states reported daily cases at the Worldometers site. That's August 6. Actually I started entering the data thinking ALL the states had reported for August 6 but it turns out that the last date reported for Iowa and South Dakota was August 4. At that point I was not going to start over so I just left those two States out.

So, anyway, I ran a Spearman correlation between vaccination rate by State and cases per million population reported by State on August 6. The coefficient is -0.67718 with 48 data pairs. That is so highly significant that the on line calculator I used to do it puts p at 0. >99.9999 and a bunch of other 9s to the right of the decimal point confidence.

There is absolutely not doubt, none, that higher vaccination rate is associated with lower case rate. Yes you can say maybe one should use something like a weekly average instead of a single day. But all that is likely to do is make the correlation stronger.

The anti vax people need to just stop. Please. The vaccines work extremely well. It's obvious. It's not a close call. At this point you have to be a complete idiot not to recognize it.

Oh...I used the vaccination rate map at https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus- ... ne-tracker for vaccination rates. Set it at "Fully vaccinated."

You suppose the CDC stopping the tracking of all case counts for the vaccinated who weren't hospitalized or dead has anything to do with your lower case counts? I pointed this issue out back then. You might need to rerun the numbers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/risk-of ... 021-7?op=1

The CDC stopped tracking most COVID-19 cases in vaccinated people. That makes it hard to know how dangerous Delta really is

.

The CDC stopped monitoring the frequency of breakthrough infections. They did not stop monitoring total infections. They did not stop counting cases among vaccinated people in the total case count. They just stopped trying to keep track of whether each case was vaccinated or not. They didn't say "Oh this is a case but we're not counting it because the person was vaccinated." They just didn't make an effort to record the case as vaccinated or not. Also, the Worldometers site uses State by State reporting. You can see that by clicking on the numbers in the "source" link at their site. So what CDC did or didn't do doesn't matter with respect to the correlation analysis I did.

BTW, Kaiser Family Foundation did a fairly recent assessment using State by State reporting and it suggested the vaccine is very effective. It's dated July 30 and it's at https://www.businessinsider.com/risk-of ... 021-7?op=1. Here's a quote with respect to what State data say about total infections:

The reported share of COVID-19 cases among those not fully vaccinated ranged from 94.1% in Arizona to 99.85% Connecticut.

I wish CDC would have continued what it was doing. I think it's good information to have. But it doesn't change the picture. There is a strong correlation such that States with higher vaccination rates tend to have lower case rates and it continues to be the case that the overwhelming number of infections are among people who have not been vaccinated.

[SeattleGriz]

You suppose the CDC stopping the tracking of all case counts for the vaccinated who weren't hospitalized or dead has anything to do with your lower case counts? I pointed this issue out back then. You might need to rerun the numbers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/risk-of ... 021-7?op=1

.

The CDC stopped monitoring the frequency of breakthrough infections. They did not stop monitoring total infections. They did not stop counting cases among vaccinated people in the total case count. They just stopped trying to keep track of whether each case was vaccinated or not. They didn't say "Oh this is a case but we're not counting it because the person was vaccinated." They just didn't make an effort to record the case as vaccinated or not. Also, the Worldometers site uses State by State reporting. You can see that by clicking on the numbers in the "source" link at their site. So what CDC did or didn't do doesn't matter with respect to the correlation analysis I did.

BTW, Kaiser Family Foundation did a fairly recent assessment using State by State reporting and it suggested the vaccine is very effective. It's dated July 30 and it's at https://www.businessinsider.com/risk-of ... 021-7?op=1. Here's a quote with respect to what State data say about total infections:

The reported share of COVID-19 cases among those not fully vaccinated ranged from 94.1% in Arizona to 99.85% Connecticut.

I wish CDC would have continued what it was doing. I think it's good information to have. But it doesn't change the picture. There is a strong correlation such that States with higher vaccination rates tend to have lower case rates and it continues to be the case that the overwhelming number of infections are among people who have not been vaccinated.

Dude. You're too nice. I was wrong about where the data came from. My apologies.

That was your chance to pummel me!

[Winterborn]

People who like the illusion of safety and freedom.

And federally subsidized crop insurance, irrigation projects, railways, freeways, vaccine research, the internet....

A government big enough to give you everything you want is one big enough to take it all away.

[kalm]

And federally subsidized crop insurance, irrigation projects, railways, freeways, vaccine research, the internet....

A government big enough to give you everything you want is one big enough to take it all away.

True.

[SDHornet]

The one I posted on ags had a vax cicle instead of mask.

Same thing, no?

[SDHornet]

That's me too with a couple of changes ... I would add that businesses have the right to require a mask to the upper right circle and "by Democrats and Republicans" to the lower circle.

[SDHornet]

What does "real" in quotes mean, because that typically implies you don't actually believe it's real.

Means it's an actual virus (because it is) and not some made up hoax.

[SDHornet]

Hmm. The great pivot is starting. Called this a couple of weeks ago.

Well when WHO redefines what her immunity it, what did you possibly expect?

[UNI88]

Hmm. The great pivot is starting. Called this a couple of weeks ago.

I'm pretty sure CID addressed this a year or so ago.

[SeattleGriz]

Hmm. The great pivot is starting. Called this a couple of weeks ago.

I'm pretty sure CID addressed this a year or so ago.

That we wouldn't reach herd immunity through vaccinations or there would be a pivot in treatment? My idea of the pivot was to blame Trump for "faulty" vaccines and start focus on prevention.

[Gil Dobie]

The one I posted on ags had a vax cicle instead of mask.

Same thing, no?

Private industry should be able to decide if mask should be worn on their property.

[UNI88]

I'm pretty sure CID addressed this a year or so ago.

That we wouldn't reach herd immunity through vaccinations or there would be a pivot in treatment? My idea of the pivot was to blame Trump for "faulty" vaccines and start focus on prevention.

If I remember correctly it was that herd immunity likely wasn't possible because of the type of virus. We don't get herd immunity from the common cold.

[Gil Dobie]

That we wouldn't reach herd immunity through vaccinations or there would be a pivot in treatment? My idea of the pivot was to blame Trump for "faulty" vaccines and start focus on prevention.

If I remember correctly it was that herd immunity likely wasn't possible because of the type of virus. We don't get herd immunity from the common cold.

Will this eventually be called the Common Covid.