Disgraceful

[Ibanez]

Should have kept both operational at the same time. Need Kabul for the commercial flights.
I get it that more troops would be needed to protect both airports. But for another month or three, so what?

Random thought: If the Taliban wanted to really fuck with us, you would think they would cut power to the airport and shut down cell towers. Maybe that is coming, but until they do, there is hope to get through this mess better than where we are at now.

From what I've read, the closure on Bagram was dependent on the Taliban living up to their end of the deal. They did not and Bagram was closed anyways.

Closing Bagram was a stupid f'n decision. It should've "closed" the minute the last transport left with the last of the American civilians/ Afghan nationals.

[SDHornet]

You mean no one that didn't bother to look at Bidens* track record of failure on foreign policy coupled with the "reverse everything Orange Man did because Orange Man Bad" narratives from the Left. And that doesn't even add in the dementia aspect. Sorry, anyone with a brain new Biden* was going to be a disaster.

Biden* voters and supporters own this.

I figured Biden couldn't be any worse than Trump and would be ineffectual and a 1-term POTUS. Clearly I was wrong.

Yes you were, but you were told you were wrong and voted for that demented incompetent racist mother fucker anyways. Your bad.

[SDHornet]

From what I've read, the closure on Bagram was dependent on the Taliban living up to their end of the deal. They did not and Bagram was closed anyways.

Closing Bagram was a stupid f'n decision. It should've "closed" the minute the last transport left with the last of the American civilians/ Afghan nationals.

Agreed.

[SDHornet]

Would Trump have over-ridden/ignored the intel reports indicating that the "blitzkrieg" that was waiting in the wings and proceeded without change anyways? Also given his track record of "deals", does admin close Bagram given that it's closure was dependent on the Taliban living up so some of its agreement?

Monday morning QBing here but Trumps track record in the ME doesn't lead any sane person to believe the same clusterfuck that is unfolding now under Biden* would have happened under Trump.

Looking at the last 4 years - Trump would have over-ridden the experts and reports. He's on record distrusting the Intel community. Why would he believe them? He was praising the Taliban about how they're going to fight the terrorists for us.

I don't think he would have botched the Afghan exist anywhere nearly as bad as Biden* currently is. But we'll never know and tbh, what Trump would have done is irrelevant to the clusterfuck that Biden* got in his hands.

[GannonFan]

Well said!

I disagree. Anybody who voted for Biden most certainly was NOT “using the information they had at hand”. In the immortal words of a former AZ Cardinals HC, “He is who we thought he was!” If you didn’t know that this was EXACTLY what you were going to get, then you probably were not paying attention.

I agree. If you voted for Biden, it had to be knowing that he was a fairly bumbling and incompetent politician for most of the 40 years he was in office. He was for busing to end segregation (but then promptly removed his kids from public schools so as not to be impacted by that), he's been wrong on most foreign policy events since he's been in office, his mismanagement of the Judiciary Committee not only bungled the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill saga, but has also had a disastrous impact on the quality of SCOTUS nomination hearings ever since, and his previous attempts to run for President were doomed by terrible decisions and questionable (plagiarism) behavior. I find anyone voting for Biden to be a bit odd - he was and is not Presidential material - and heck, now in his advanced age he's not anywhere close to the mental capability he had when he was younger (and still making those mistakes then). But I do understand the he's not Trump view as a basis for casting a Biden vote.

[Ibanez]

Looking at the last 4 years - Trump would have over-ridden the experts and reports. He's on record distrusting the Intel community. Why would he believe them? He was praising the Taliban about how they're going to fight the terrorists for us.

I don't think he would have botched the Afghan exist anywhere nearly as bad as Biden* currently is. But we'll never know and tbh, what Trump would have done is irrelevant to the clusterfuck that Biden* got in his hands.

Agreed.

It's "refreshing" to see the Democrats openly criticize and scheduled hearings to figure out how this so we terribly bungled.

I disagree with Trip - this is a big deal and wont be quickly forgotten.

[SDHornet]

I don't think he would have botched the Afghan exist anywhere nearly as bad as Biden* currently is. But we'll never know and tbh, what Trump would have done is irrelevant to the clusterfuck that Biden* got in his hands.

Agreed.

It's "refreshing" to see the Democrats openly criticize and scheduled hearings to figure out how this so we terribly bungled.

I disagree with Trip - this is a big deal and wont be quickly forgotten.

Trips is wrong often, thinking the Afghanistan collapse is not a big deal is just laughable to anyone outside his neo-Marxist bubble.

Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That’s why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

General Patton

[UNI88]

Should have kept both operational at the same time. Need Kabul for the commercial flights.
I get it that more troops would be needed to protect both airports. But for another month or three, so what?

Random thought: If the Taliban wanted to really fuck with us, you would think they would cut power to the airport and shut down cell towers. Maybe that is coming, but until they do, there is hope to get through this mess better than where we are at now.

From what I've read, the closure on Bagram was dependent on the Taliban living up to their end of the deal. They did not and Bagram was closed anyways.

What parts of the deal with Trump did the Taliban not live up to?

[SDHornet]

From what I've read, the closure on Bagram was dependent on the Taliban living up to their end of the deal. They did not and Bagram was closed anyways.

What parts of the deal with Trump did the Taliban not live up to?

I'm not sure, I think it was related to territory grabs.

[SDHornet]

[UNI88]

What parts of the deal with Trump did the Taliban not live up to?

I'm not sure, I think it was related to territory grabs.

I don't think the Taliban violated any significant part of the agreement they made with Trump. I don't think it made our withdrawal contingent on the progress of peace negotiations with the Afghan government. It was pretty much, "We're pulling out. You two get together and work something out. Goodbye and good luck!" The only significant thing Biden changed was the date. Prove me wrong and I'll give a mea culpa.

That doesn't mean that Biden doesn't own this. He could have changed the plan before it was implemented and he didn't so it's 100% his. It does mean that Trump is a yuge hypocrite when he says things would have been different if he were still POTUS.

[CitadelGrad]

I support Biden's decision to pull out. The last time he didn't pull out, we got Hunter.

[89Hen]

I voted for Biden expecting him to be………………………….Biden.

And I’d vote for him over Trump again.

New Rasmussen poll shows Trump would win today over Biden.

[AZGrizFan]

I voted for Biden expecting him to be………………………….Biden.

And I’d vote for him over Trump again.

New Rasmussen poll shows Trump would win today over Biden.

Again, if people did NOT know what they were getting with Biden they had to have lived in a fucking CAVE for the past 50 years. Zero sympathy for people who now wish they’d voted differently.

[Gil Dobie]

New Rasmussen poll shows Trump would win today over Biden.

Again, if people did NOT know what they were getting with Biden they had to have lived in a fucking CAVE for the past 50 years. Zero sympathy for people who now wish they’d voted differently.

What exactly was Trumps plan to leave Afghanistan?

[BDKJMU]

Should have kept both operational at the same time. Need Kabul for the commercial flights.
I get it that more troops would be needed to protect both airports. But for another month or three, so what?

Random thought: If the Taliban wanted to really fuck with us, you would think they would cut power to the airport and shut down cell towers. Maybe that is coming, but until they do, there is hope to get through this mess better than where we are at now.

From what I've read, the closure on Bagram was dependent on the Taliban living up to their end of the deal. They did not and Bagram was closed anyways.

But wait, Biden said he didn’t trust the Taliban.

[CitadelGrad]

[89Hen]

What exactly was Trumps plan to leave Afghanistan?

I guess we'll never know.

[SDHornet]

Oh.

[SDHornet]

I'm not sure, I think it was related to territory grabs.

I don't think the Taliban violated any significant part of the agreement they made with Trump. I don't think it made our withdrawal contingent on the progress of peace negotiations with the Afghan government. It was pretty much, "We're pulling out. You two get together and work something out. Goodbye and good luck!" The only significant thing Biden changed was the date. Prove me wrong and I'll give a mea culpa.

That doesn't mean that Biden doesn't own this. He could have changed the plan before it was implemented and he didn't so it's 100% his. It does mean that Trump is a yuge hypocrite when he says things would have been different if he were still POTUS.

Here's the deal from state.gov:
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/upload ... .29.20.pdf

Here is Pence on the deal:

In February 2020, the Trump administration reached an agreement that required the Taliban to end all attacks on U.S. military personnel, to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to negotiate with Afghan leaders on creating a new government. As long as these conditions were met, the U.S. would conduct a gradual and orderly withdrawal of military forces.

Unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council, the agreement immediately brought to Afghanistan a stability unseen in decades. In the past 18 months, the U.S. has not suffered a single combat casualty there.

By the time we left office, the Afghan government and the Taliban each controlled their respective territories, neither was mounting major offensives, and America had only 2,500 U.S. troops in the country—the smallest military presence since the war began in 2001.

America’s endless war was coming to a dignified end, and Bagram Air Base ensured we could conduct counterterrorism missions through the war’s conclusion.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence ... 1629238764

Biden announced the troops would stay past the May 1 deadline.

President Biden will withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan over the coming months, U.S. officials said, completing the military exit by the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that drew the United States into its longest war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Great timeline on the Taliban's increase on territory:
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/taliba ... an-5-days/

Based on this article, Bagram was left on July 2:

The US military left Bagram Airfield - its key base in Afghanistan - in the dead of night without notifying the Afghans, the base's new commander said.

General Asadullah Kohistani told the BBC that the US left Bagram at 03:00 local time on Friday, and that the Afghan military found out hours later.

Bagram also contains a prison, and there are reportedly up to 5,000 Taliban prisoners left in the facility.

The Taliban have been advancing rapidly in Afghanistan as US troops withdraw.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57682290

Per the NBC timeline, the Taliban was already well on their territory grab by late June which would have violated the Trump deal, no? Or did the Taliban make moves because Biden* violated the Trump deal? Either way you look at it, I'm right and Biden* is still an incompetent racist mother fucker.

[UNI88]

I don't think the Taliban violated any significant part of the agreement they made with Trump. I don't think it made our withdrawal contingent on the progress of peace negotiations with the Afghan government. It was pretty much, "We're pulling out. You two get together and work something out. Goodbye and good luck!" The only significant thing Biden changed was the date. Prove me wrong and I'll give a mea culpa.

That doesn't mean that Biden doesn't own this. He could have changed the plan before it was implemented and he didn't so it's 100% his. It does mean that Trump is a yuge hypocrite when he says things would have been different if he were still POTUS.

Here's the deal from state.gov:
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/upload ... .29.20.pdf

Here is Pence on the deal:

In February 2020, the Trump administration reached an agreement that required the Taliban to end all attacks on U.S. military personnel, to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to negotiate with Afghan leaders on creating a new government. As long as these conditions were met, the U.S. would conduct a gradual and orderly withdrawal of military forces.

Unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council, the agreement immediately brought to Afghanistan a stability unseen in decades. In the past 18 months, the U.S. has not suffered a single combat casualty there.

By the time we left office, the Afghan government and the Taliban each controlled their respective territories, neither was mounting major offensives, and America had only 2,500 U.S. troops in the country—the smallest military presence since the war began in 2001.

America’s endless war was coming to a dignified end, and Bagram Air Base ensured we could conduct counterterrorism missions through the war’s conclusion.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence ... 1629238764

Biden announced the troops would stay past the May 1 deadline.

President Biden will withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan over the coming months, U.S. officials said, completing the military exit by the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that drew the United States into its longest war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Great timeline on the Taliban's increase on territory:
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/taliba ... an-5-days/

Based on this article, Bagram was left on July 2:

The US military left Bagram Airfield - its key base in Afghanistan - in the dead of night without notifying the Afghans, the base's new commander said.

General Asadullah Kohistani told the BBC that the US left Bagram at 03:00 local time on Friday, and that the Afghan military found out hours later.

Bagram also contains a prison, and there are reportedly up to 5,000 Taliban prisoners left in the facility.

The Taliban have been advancing rapidly in Afghanistan as US troops withdraw.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57682290

Per the NBC timeline, the Taliban was already well on their territory grab by late June which would have violated the Trump deal, no? Or did the Taliban make moves because Biden* violated the Trump deal? Either way you look at it, I'm right and Biden* is still an incompetent racist mother fucker.

I don't think the Taliban violated the Trump deal. The Trump deal didn't prohibit territory grabs. According to your quote of Pence it simply:
- prohibited attacks on U.S. military personnel
- required them to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to
- required negotiation with Afghan leaders on creating a new government.

The Taliban was negotiating with the Afghan government. They were intentionally dragging their feet but they were technically "negotiating." The Taliban would have been stupid to not do what they did.

Trump negotiated a weak deal that set this up. Biden and his administration were incompetent for not fixing the issue so they absolutely own the results but the Orange Man has no room to crow about Biden implementing his plan.

[UNI88]

Again, if people did NOT know what they were getting with Biden they had to have lived in a fucking CAVE for the past 50 years. Zero sympathy for people who now wish they’d voted differently.

What exactly was Trumps plan to leave Afghanistan?

The same as Biden's plan with an earlier withdrawal date.

[SDHornet]

Here's the deal from state.gov:
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/upload ... .29.20.pdf

Here is Pence on the deal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence ... 1629238764

Biden announced the troops would stay past the May 1 deadline.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Great timeline on the Taliban's increase on territory:
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/taliba ... an-5-days/

Based on this article, Bagram was left on July 2:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57682290

Per the NBC timeline, the Taliban was already well on their territory grab by late June which would have violated the Trump deal, no? Or did the Taliban make moves because Biden* violated the Trump deal? Either way you look at it, I'm right and Biden* is still an incompetent racist mother fucker.

I don't think the Taliban violated the Trump deal. The Trump deal didn't prohibit territory grabs. According to your quote of Pence it simply:
- prohibited attacks on U.S. military personnel
- required them to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to
- required negotiation with Afghan leaders on creating a new government.

The Taliban was negotiating with the Afghan government. They were intentionally dragging their feet but they were technically "negotiating." The Taliban would have been stupid to not do what they did.

Trump negotiated a weak deal that set this up. Biden and his administration were incompetent for not fixing the issue so they absolutely own the results but the Orange Man has no room to crow about Biden implementing his plan.

So grab territory before a negotiation with the Afghan gubmint. Explain how exactly that was supposed to work.

And not buying any blame on Orange Man other than it being a "weak deal". Which it could be, but doesn't really matter now if Biden* had no intention of honoring it.

[UNI88]

I don't think the Taliban violated the Trump deal. The Trump deal didn't prohibit territory grabs. According to your quote of Pence it simply:
- prohibited attacks on U.S. military personnel
- required them to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to
- required negotiation with Afghan leaders on creating a new government.

The Taliban was negotiating with the Afghan government. They were intentionally dragging their feet but they were technically "negotiating." The Taliban would have been stupid to not do what they did.

Trump negotiated a weak deal that set this up. Biden and his administration were incompetent for not fixing the issue so they absolutely own the results but the Orange Man has no room to crow about Biden implementing his plan.

So grab territory before a negotiation with the Afghan gubmint. Explain how exactly that was supposed to work.

And not buying any blame on Orange Man other than it being a "weak deal". Which it could be, but doesn't really matter now if Biden* had no intention of honoring it.

As agreed to, it wasn't going to work. That's why it was a "weak deal" and should have been renegotiated before the withdrawal continued.

I blame the Orange Man for negotiating a "weak deal" and being a loser, hypocrite about it. I blame Biden for the results of implementing a "weak deal". It doesn't matter who negotiated it, Biden implemented it and he owns what happened.

[SeattleGriz]

Not sure if this clip is cut short and leaves out needed context, but Austin sure looked desperate when asked if diplomacy was the only way to get the stranded out of Afghanistan.