Coronavirus COVID-19

[SeattleGriz]

Nailed it.

It’s like the global warming debate. 99% of scientists in this particular field are wrong but Ben Shapiro is right.

No wait…he’s just talking politics or something…

I know you're flipping crap, but has the narrative not changed immensely now that the vaccinated are catching COVID? His wife is an MD by the way.

On a separate note, now that it looks like Covid won't be able to be used for the upcoming elections, we can expect a full court press to get HR1 passed.

[Ivytalk]

Just saw a Vanderbilt U blog on which religious denominations object to vaccinations. Virtually all Protestant denominations are OK with it. The exceptions are Dutch Reformed, faith-healing sects, and Christian Scientists.

Sure…but what about dancing? In WA !?!

I’d say you should hop a flight to Perth (if you can find one) and find out.

And you can sample those fine Australian table wines, like Perth Pink and Hobart Muddy.

[kalm]

Sure…but what about dancing? In WA !?!

I’d say you should hop a flight to Perth (if you can find one) and find out.

And you can sample those fine Australian table wines, like Perth Pink and Hobart Muddy.

I’d like to go Australia. I don’t drink anymore though.

[kalm]

It’s like the global warming debate. 99% of scientists in this particular field are wrong but Ben Shapiro is right.

No wait…he’s just talking politics or something…

I know you're flipping crap, but has the narrative not changed immensely now that the vaccinated are catching COVID? His wife is an MD by the way.

On a separate note, now that it looks like Covid won't be able to be used for the upcoming elections, we can expect a full court press to get HR1 passed.

The science has changed. The narrative in some of the media and politics has changed. Then again, Fauci has never been my first go-to anyways so it’s just not that big of a deal to me.

I didn’t know Shapiro’s wife is an MD. I suppose next you’re going to tell me there are Stanford MD’s who buck the mainstream narrative too!

[Ivytalk]

I’d say you should hop a flight to Perth (if you can find one) and find out.

And you can sample those fine Australian table wines, like Perth Pink and Hobart Muddy.

I’d like to go Australia. I don’t drink anymore though.

All I drink now is wine (and not much of that) and the occasional beer. Australia and NZ used to be on our bucket list, but even if those places lift their lockdowns, it’s just too dang far for an old dude like me.

The down-under lockdowns bit my family in the azz. One of our nieces couldn’t get out of Melbourne to visit the rest of her family in NZ.

[UNI88]

Just saw a Vanderbilt U blog on which religious denominations object to vaccinations. Virtually all Protestant denominations are OK with it. The exceptions are Dutch Reformed, faith-healing sects, and Christian Scientists.

Sure…but what about dancing? In WA !?!

Rumor has it that people in WA have no rhythm so we're probably better off if they aren't allowed to dance ...

[Baldy]

I know you're flipping crap, but has the narrative not changed immensely now that the vaccinated are catching COVID? His wife is an MD by the way.

On a separate note, now that it looks like Covid won't be able to be used for the upcoming elections, we can expect a full court press to get HR1 passed.

The science has changed. The narrative in some of the media and politics has changed. Then again, Fauci has never been my first go-to anyways so it’s just not that big of a deal to me.

I didn’t know Shapiro’s wife is an MD. I suppose next you’re going to tell me there are Stanford MD’s who buck the mainstream narrative too!

It's cute that you think the CDC, WHO, NIH, etc. are actually following the science.

Do you think these organizations have become more or less politicized since the pandemic began?

[SeattleGriz]

I know you're flipping crap, but has the narrative not changed immensely now that the vaccinated are catching COVID? His wife is an MD by the way.

On a separate note, now that it looks like Covid won't be able to be used for the upcoming elections, we can expect a full court press to get HR1 passed.

The science has changed. The narrative in some of the media and politics has changed. Then again, Fauci has never been my first go-to anyways so it’s just not that big of a deal to me.

I didn’t know Shapiro’s wife is an MD. I suppose next you’re going to tell me there are Stanford MD’s who buck the mainstream narrative too!

[kalm]

The science has changed. The narrative in some of the media and politics has changed. Then again, Fauci has never been my first go-to anyways so it’s just not that big of a deal to me.

I didn’t know Shapiro’s wife is an MD. I suppose next you’re going to tell me there are Stanford MD’s who buck the mainstream narrative too!

It's cute that you think the CDC, WHO, NIH, etc. are actually following the science.

Do you think these organizations have become more or less politicized since the pandemic began?

Well their science is better than Ben Shapiro’s. I should have included the CDC, et al but then again Fauci should have been enough to see what I was getting at.

[kalm]

Sure…but what about dancing? In WA !?!

Rumor has it that people in WA have no rhythm so we're probably better off if they aren't allowed to dance ...

[SeattleGriz]

It's cute that you think the CDC, WHO, NIH, etc. are actually following the science.

Do you think these organizations have become more or less politicized since the pandemic began?

Well their science is better than Ben Shapiro’s. I should have included the CDC, et al but then again Fauci should have been enough to see what I was getting at.

It wasn't Shapiro's science. He was showing how the narrative changed once it couldn't be hidden it has become the pandemic of the vaccinated.

[Gil Dobie]

Well their science is better than Ben Shapiro’s. I should have included the CDC, et al but then again Fauci should have been enough to see what I was getting at.

It wasn't Shapiro's science. He was showing how the narrative changed once it couldn't be hidden it has become the pandemic of the vaccinated.

If you read the MSM, the narrative changes with the wind, and even with no wind.

[93henfan]

I lost a close friend to COVID today. He was one of two high school classmates I had lunch with a couple of times each month. We're all three conservative, but those two were both anti-vax and unvaccinated. The one who passed away wasn't super hardcore about it, but the other one is an Alex Jones level anti-vaxer and preached it in person and on social media. He actually welled up in tears a few months ago while we were at lunch and told me he hated to tell me this, but I would die within two years from having received the two Pfizer doses. Supposedly, it's going to slowly break down the proteins in my body and I'll die a bloody, clotty mess.

I texted that one this afternoon to ask him if he had heard the terrible news. He said, "no, what?" I informed him of the other friend's passing. He called me several minutes later, very distraught, and surprisingly said he feels terrible about preaching his anti-vax stance.

The funeral and next lunch conversations should be very interesting.

[Col Hogan]

I lost a close friend to COVID today. He was one of two high school classmates I had lunch with a couple of times each month. We're all three conservative, but those two were both anti-vax and unvaccinated. The one who passed away wasn't super hardcore about it, but the other one is an Alex Jones level anti-vaxer and preached it in person and on social media. He actually welled up in tears a few months ago while we were at lunch and told me he hated to tell me this, but I would die within two years from having received the two Pfizer doses. Supposedly, it's going to slowly break down the proteins in my body and I'll die a bloody, clotty mess.

I texted that one this afternoon to ask him if he had heard the terrible news. He said, "no, what?" I informed him of the other friend's passing. He called me several minutes later, very distraught, and surprisingly said he feels terrible about preaching his anti-vax stance.

The funeral and next lunch conversations should be very interesting.

Sorry for your loss…and I look forward to hearing about that lunch conversation…

A side note…I really hate how the term anti-vax has been twisted for political purposes…PC (Pre-Covid), if someone was an anti-Vaxer, they were generally opposed to all vaccines.

Now, for example, I have received my three jabs…but I’m opposed to mandatory vaccinations…and I’ve been called an anti-vaxer for that position…

[UNI88]

I lost a close friend to COVID today. He was one of two high school classmates I had lunch with a couple of times each month. We're all three conservative, but those two were both anti-vax and unvaccinated. The one who passed away wasn't super hardcore about it, but the other one is an Alex Jones level anti-vaxer and preached it in person and on social media. He actually welled up in tears a few months ago while we were at lunch and told me he hated to tell me this, but I would die within two years from having received the two Pfizer doses. Supposedly, it's going to slowly break down the proteins in my body and I'll die a bloody, clotty mess.

I texted that one this afternoon to ask him if he had heard the terrible news. He said, "no, what?" I informed him of the other friend's passing. He called me several minutes later, very distraught, and surprisingly said he feels terrible about preaching his anti-vax stance.

The funeral and next lunch conversations should be very interesting.

Sorry for your loss…and I look forward to hearing about that lunch conversation…

A side note…I really hate how the term anti-vax has been twisted for political purposes…PC (Pre-Covid), if someone was an anti-Vaxer, they were generally opposed to all vaccines.

Now, for example, I have received my three jabs…but I’m opposed to mandatory vaccinations…and I’ve been called an anti-vaxer for that position…

You're not anti-vax, you're freedom of choice.

[Gil Dobie]

I lost a close friend to COVID today. He was one of two high school classmates I had lunch with a couple of times each month. We're all three conservative, but those two were both anti-vax and unvaccinated. The one who passed away wasn't super hardcore about it, but the other one is an Alex Jones level anti-vaxer and preached it in person and on social media. He actually welled up in tears a few months ago while we were at lunch and told me he hated to tell me this, but I would die within two years from having received the two Pfizer doses. Supposedly, it's going to slowly break down the proteins in my body and I'll die a bloody, clotty mess.

I texted that one this afternoon to ask him if he had heard the terrible news. He said, "no, what?" I informed him of the other friend's passing. He called me several minutes later, very distraught, and surprisingly said he feels terrible about preaching his anti-vax stance.

The funeral and next lunch conversations should be very interesting.

Sorry to hear of your friends passing.

[JohnStOnge]

Well their science is better than Ben Shapiro’s. I should have included the CDC, et al but then again Fauci should have been enough to see what I was getting at.

It wasn't Shapiro's science. He was showing how the narrative changed once it couldn't be hidden it has become the pandemic of the vaccinated.

I clicked to see the tweet stream and I'd love to see Shapiro get into a panel discussion with some of the people he cited. Like saying Fauci said the reason the Omicron variant is less virulent is natural immunity.

It is not a pandemic of the vaccinated. As an example: If I look at the Louisiana Department of Health page at https://ldh.la.gov/Coronavirus/ right now I see that 64% of the cases and 75% of the deaths during the most recent week for which they compiled data (12/16 - 12/22) were among people who were NOT fully vaccinated. On 12/16 50.3% of the people in the State were in that and on 12/22 50% were. So about 50% of the people accounted for 64% of the cases and 75% of the deaths while the 50% who were fully vaccinated accounted for about 36% of the cases and 25% of the deaths.

There's also a running tally of hospitalizations and, currently, 75% of the hospitalizations are among people who are not fully vaccinated. That would be 75% of the hospitalizations being among people who comprise now 49.7% of the State population.

The extent to which the problem is disproportionately associated with those who are not fully vaccinated definitely declined with the arrival of the Omicron variant. The LDH estimated that, as of 12/18, 84.6% of cases in the State were Omicron. But the problem is still disproportionately associated with people who are not fully vaccinated.

Shapiro made a Statement in the Tweet stream implying he's on the side that follows the data. He is not.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't want to take the time to go back and find one of the posts where SG asked about a Danish study that showed a negative number for "Vaccine Effectiveness" after an extended period but I happened across this:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2TE17B

It quotes one of the authors of the study. What I can see from reading it is that SG may be hopelessly tuned in to the social media misinformation stream.

[JohnStOnge]

The science has changed.

I don't think the science has changed. I think the situation has. And the science has always said the situation could change. It was always the case that the science said that new variants could evolve that would, at least to some extent, evade vaccine and/or natural immunity. So now we have a variant that's done that. This scenario was not unanticipated by the science.

The science also appears, at this point, to say that the vaccines do still reduce the risk of infection by the new variant of concern to some extent and still reduce the risk of severe consequences to a significant extent; especially if people have received the booster dose. The science also says that, if necessary, vaccines can be tweaked to address the new variant specifically.

[SeattleGriz]

I don't want to take the time to go back and find one of the posts where SG asked about a Danish study that showed a negative number for "Vaccine Effectiveness" after an extended period but I happened across this:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2TE17B

It quotes one of the authors of the study. What I can see from reading it is that SG may be hopelessly tuned in to the social media misinformation stream.

This is the best you've got? A Reuters fact check that didn't address the negative effectiveness of the vaccine, other than it's bias! So the 842k matched cohort Swedish study you wouldn't answer either, was due to bias as well? The one that showed at day 211 the vaccine effectiveness against delta was zero, then dipped into negative effectiveness?

So, to summarize. You're saying that when the data shows good vaccine effectiveness, it's rock solid data, but when the vaccine shows poor effectiveness, it's due to study bias.

In regards to the actual topic the fact check tried to debunk, whether the vaccine damaged the immune system, that was never discussed, but if you'd like to talk th1 vs th2 we can surely discuss that if you like.

[kalm]

Sorry for your loss…and I look forward to hearing about that lunch conversation…

A side note…I really hate how the term anti-vax has been twisted for political purposes…PC (Pre-Covid), if someone was an anti-Vaxer, they were generally opposed to all vaccines.

Now, for example, I have received my three jabs…but I’m opposed to mandatory vaccinations…and I’ve been called an anti-vaxer for that position…

You're not anti-vax, you're freedom of choice.

Which is fine. The main issue I have now with those who chose to not get vaccinated is they tend to think that decision should be consequence free.

[SeattleGriz]

You're not anti-vax, you're freedom of choice.

Which is fine. The main issue I have now with those who chose to not get vaccinated is they tend to think that decision should be consequence free.

What consequences should they suffer, other than catching COVID?

[kalm]

The science has changed.

I don't think the science has changed. I think the situation has. And the science has always said the situation could change. It was always the case that the science said that new variants could evolve that would, at least to some extent, evade vaccine and/or natural immunity. So now we have a variant that's done that. This scenario was not unanticipated by the science.

The science also appears, at this point, to say that the vaccines do still reduce the risk of infection by the new variant of concern to some extent and still reduce the risk of severe consequences to a significant extent; especially if people have received the booster dose. The science also says that, if necessary, vaccines can be tweaked to address the new variant specifically.

Ok…but “the science” has still changed at least in regard to official government pronouncements and how to mitigate the threat.

(I’m trying to dumb this down for the audience here. You’re not helping )

[kalm]

I lost a close friend to COVID today. He was one of two high school classmates I had lunch with a couple of times each month. We're all three conservative, but those two were both anti-vax and unvaccinated. The one who passed away wasn't super hardcore about it, but the other one is an Alex Jones level anti-vaxer and preached it in person and on social media. He actually welled up in tears a few months ago while we were at lunch and told me he hated to tell me this, but I would die within two years from having received the two Pfizer doses. Supposedly, it's going to slowly break down the proteins in my body and I'll die a bloody, clotty mess.

I texted that one this afternoon to ask him if he had heard the terrible news. He said, "no, what?" I informed him of the other friend's passing. He called me several minutes later, very distraught, and surprisingly said he feels terrible about preaching his anti-vax stance.

The funeral and next lunch conversations should be very interesting.

That sucks, dude. My condolences.

[SeattleGriz]

I don't think the science has changed. I think the situation has. And the science has always said the situation could change. It was always the case that the science said that new variants could evolve that would, at least to some extent, evade vaccine and/or natural immunity. So now we have a variant that's done that. This scenario was not unanticipated by the science.

The science also appears, at this point, to say that the vaccines do still reduce the risk of infection by the new variant of concern to some extent and still reduce the risk of severe consequences to a significant extent; especially if people have received the booster dose. The science also says that, if necessary, vaccines can be tweaked to address the new variant specifically.

Ok…but “the science” has still changed at least in regard to official government pronouncements and how to mitigate the threat.

(I’m trying to dumb this down for the audience here. You’re not helping )

Here let me help. The political science has changed. Explains it all.

I love how StOnge throws around the "new science" while ignoring established science.