What's scary about health-care reform?

Political discussions
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30435
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: Sailing the Gulf of Mexico

What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by UNI88 »

Good article from Sunday's Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... 314.column
What is best in our approach is the exceptional quality it provides. Americans grasp that: A 2006 poll found that 89 percent were happy with the medical care they get. But President Barack Obama and his allies in Congress don't seem to realize how good we have it.

He says though the United States spends more per person on medical care than any other nation, "the quality of our care is often lower, and we aren't any healthier. In fact, citizens in some countries that spend substantially less than we do are actually living longer than we do."
...
It's true that the United States spends more on health care than anyone else, and it's true that we rank below a lot of other advanced countries in life expectancy. The juxtaposition of the two facts, however, doesn't prove we are wasting our money or doing the wrong things.
...
One big reason our life expectancy lags is that Americans have an unusual tendency to perish in homicides or accidents. We are 12 times more likely than the Japanese to be murdered and nearly twice as likely to be killed in auto wrecks.

In their 2006 book, "The Business of Health," economists Robert L. Ohsfeldt and John E. Schneider set out to determine where the U.S. would rank in life span among developed nations if homicides and accidents are factored out. Their answer? First place.
...
The U.S. also excelled on other measures, such as surviving heart attacks for more than a year. Why? Because our doctors and patients don't take no for an answer. The researchers attribute the results to "wider screening and more aggressive treatment." Another factor is that we get quicker access to new cancer drugs than anyone else.

Critics say all those great medicines and therapies are cold comfort to Americans who lack insurance -- which by any standard is our greatest shortcoming. People without coverage are more likely to do without needed treatment or preventive care and more likely to die from disease or accidents.

But they have it better than you might think. Some 62 percent of uninsured Americans are satisfied with their medical care. That is probably because they get a lot of uncompensated treatment from the most advanced, ambitious and capable medical system in the world.

In Britain, by contrast, having guaranteed access to care doesn't mean you'll actually get it. Twenty percent of British cancer patients who might be cured become incurable while awaiting the treatment they need.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.

It will probably be difficult for MAQA yahoos to overcome the Qult programming but they should give being rational & reasonable a try.

Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Col Hogan »

Our health care system does not need reforming....what needs reform is the pricing/cost of the system...

Putting the government in charge is the last thing we need to accomplish that...

First, we need tort reform, because we don't really know how much health care costs...lawsuits...high malpractice insurance costs...unnecessary tests to "CYA" by doctors....all mask the true cost of health care in this country...

Do tort reform first, then let's see how many people can't afford health care...

Texas did tort reform three years ago...the results...over 7000 doctors have flooded the state, increasing the number of health care providers while reducing costs...unnecessary tests have dropped...and malpractice insurance has gone down and the number of lawsuits has dropped...all reducing costs to people...

Tort reform is the kind of health care reform this country needs...why is it being ignored by the democrats in Congress...could it be because one of their biggest groups of donators are trial lawyers....talk about special interests... :coffee:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
polsongrizz
Level4
Level4
Posts: 5347
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:41 am
I am a fan of: MONTANA
A.K.A.: The Beer Snob
Location: Not sure yet, if you know call me

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by polsongrizz »

UNI88 wrote:Good article from Sunday's Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... 314.column
In their 2006 book, "The Business of Health," economists Robert L. Ohsfeldt and John E. Schneider set out to determine where the U.S. would rank in life span among developed nations if homicides and accidents are factored out. Their answer? First place.
Not only that but from what I understand when they factored out American fast food and how fat we are we could actually live past our day of death. Kind of like getting over a 4.0 grade point avg when you take honors classes. Now that is a deal.
Image
“We didn’t have a man or woman in the drone,” Trump explained to a confused America. “We had nobody in the drone. It would have made a big difference, let me tell you. It would have made a big, big difference.”
Mexico will pay for the wall
THE MOON IS PART OF MARS
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by dbackjon »

Tell that to the partner of my friend Jeff - who died because he delayed treatment of a stomach pain because of NO INSURANCE. Turned out to be cancer that could have been treated had it been caught earlier.

Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands die here because of lack of access to affordable health care.
:thumb:
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 31515
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Gil Dobie »

dbackjon wrote:Tell that to the partner of my friend Jeff - who died because he delayed treatment of a stomach pain because of NO INSURANCE. Turned out to be cancer that could have been treated had it been caught earlier.

Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands die here because of lack of access to affordable health care.
That's the kicker, people that want insurance should be able to get insurance, even if it's on the government dime. Just don't fok up everybody's elses healthcare in the process.
Image
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by dbackjon »

Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Tell that to the partner of my friend Jeff - who died because he delayed treatment of a stomach pain because of NO INSURANCE. Turned out to be cancer that could have been treated had it been caught earlier.

Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands die here because of lack of access to affordable health care.
That's the kicker, people that want insurance should be able to get insurance, even if it's on the government dime. Just don't fok up everybody's elses healthcare in the process.
And that is the goal of most liberals. Single Payer, while the most efficient, is not feasible. Public Option is needed though.
:thumb:
User avatar
Cleets Part 2
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:29 am
I am a fan of: The Hotness..!!!
A.K.A.: Bentley Ardsmore
Location: Boston to Seattle

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

Col Hogan wrote: First, we need tort reform, because we don't really know how much health care costs...lawsuits...high malpractice insurance costs...unnecessary tests to "CYA" by doctors....all mask the true cost of health care in this country...
Agreed 100%
I can sum the above sentence up...
A) Get lawyers out of the middle of health care
B) See "A"
- Big 10 Football - So boring Wisconsin is our most exciting team...
- Big 10 Football - Where 117th ranked Purdue is dominant...
- Big 10 Football - Where team speed and passing offense are not required...
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by D1B »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: First, we need tort reform, because we don't really know how much health care costs...lawsuits...high malpractice insurance costs...unnecessary tests to "CYA" by doctors....all mask the true cost of health care in this country...
Agreed 100%
I can sum the above sentence up...
A) Get lawyers out of the middle of health care
B) See "A"
It would be a good thing, but the major killers are predatory health insurance companies who operate like Enron - profit is the only motive. They need serious competition and the government is the only entity who can do it.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
danefan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 7989
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
I am a fan of: UAlbany
Location: Hudson Valley, New York

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by danefan »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: First, we need tort reform, because we don't really know how much health care costs...lawsuits...high malpractice insurance costs...unnecessary tests to "CYA" by doctors....all mask the true cost of health care in this country...
Agreed 100%
I can sum the above sentence up...
A) Get lawyers out of the middle of health care
B) See "A"
Chicken before the egg Cleets. As long as health care is a for-profit business, there will be lawyers. Its no different than any other business.
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by dbackjon »

danefan wrote:
Cleets Part 2 wrote:
Agreed 100%
I can sum the above sentence up...
A) Get lawyers out of the middle of health care
B) See "A"
Chicken before the egg Cleets. As long as health care is a for-profit business, there will be lawyers. Its no different than any other business.
I don't have an issue with lawyers in health care - if a doctor/hospital/insurance company is negligent, they need to be held responsible. But at the same time, reasonableness needs to applied.

Dare I say a slotting system for awards (based on age, income potential lost, etc)?
:thumb:
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Col Hogan »

dbackjon wrote:
danefan wrote:
Chicken before the egg Cleets. As long as health care is a for-profit business, there will be lawyers. Its no different than any other business.
I don't have an issue with lawyers in health care - if a doctor/hospital/insurance company is negligent, they need to be held responsible. But at the same time, reasonableness needs to applied.

Dare I say a slotting system for awards (based on age, income potential lost, etc)?
Tort reform does not remove lawyers from health care....but it does apply what I consider to be sanity to awards...which in turn lowers health care costs by reducing malpractice insurance, unnecessary tests, etc...

Negligent doctors/hospitals must be punished...but out-of-control trial lawyers need controls too...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
danefan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 7989
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
I am a fan of: UAlbany
Location: Hudson Valley, New York

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by danefan »

Col Hogan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
I don't have an issue with lawyers in health care - if a doctor/hospital/insurance company is negligent, they need to be held responsible. But at the same time, reasonableness needs to applied.

Dare I say a slotting system for awards (based on age, income potential lost, etc)?
Tort reform does not remove lawyers from health care....but it does apply what I consider to be sanity to awards...which in turn lowers health care costs by reducing malpractice insurance, unnecessary tests, etc...

Negligent doctors/hospitals must be punished...but out-of-control trial lawyers need controls too...
When was the last time a trial lawyer put a number on a punitive damage claim? I don't handle med-mal cases, but I took the class in law school and if I remember correctly, the jury (or a judge in some cases) are the ones that decide. When was the last time you saw a trial lawyer on a jury?

In NY you cannot even put a requested amount in the complaint anymore. You just certify that it is over the jurisdictional minimum for the court.

My point is this: its not the lawyers fault. They are operating under the system of laws put in place by legislative body of their state andthe common law handed down by judges. They represent their clients to the best of their ability.

No medical malpractice insurance company is required to settle cases either. They do so because they are a for-profit business as well.

I'm not arguing that punitive damages don't need to be reduced in some cases, because they do. But its not the plaintiff's lawyer who is at fault for them. What is he supposed to do? Give the money back?
User avatar
Cleets Part 2
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:29 am
I am a fan of: The Hotness..!!!
A.K.A.: Bentley Ardsmore
Location: Boston to Seattle

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

dbackjon wrote:
danefan wrote:
Chicken before the egg Cleets. As long as health care is a for-profit business, there will be lawyers. Its no different than any other business.
I don't have an issue with lawyers in health care - if a doctor/hospital/insurance company is negligent, they need to be held responsible. But at the same time, reasonableness needs to applied.

Dare I say a slotting system for awards (based on age, income potential lost, etc)?
I just deleted a post... :puke: I'm trying to be a nice guy...
The old adage: when does $500 dollars become $500,000.00 dollars = when lawyers get involved

:coffee:
- Big 10 Football - So boring Wisconsin is our most exciting team...
- Big 10 Football - Where 117th ranked Purdue is dominant...
- Big 10 Football - Where team speed and passing offense are not required...
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30435
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: Sailing the Gulf of Mexico

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by UNI88 »

danefan wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Tort reform does not remove lawyers from health care....but it does apply what I consider to be sanity to awards...which in turn lowers health care costs by reducing malpractice insurance, unnecessary tests, etc...

Negligent doctors/hospitals must be punished...but out-of-control trial lawyers need controls too...
When was the last time a trial lawyer put a number on a punitive damage claim? I don't handle med-mal cases, but I took the class in law school and if I remember correctly, the jury (or a judge in some cases) are the ones that decide. When was the last time you saw a trial lawyer on a jury?

In NY you cannot even put a requested amount in the complaint anymore. You just certify that it is over the jurisdictional minimum for the court.

My point is this: its not the lawyers fault. They are operating under the system of laws put in place by legislative body of their state andthe common law handed down by judges. They represent their clients to the best of their ability.

No medical malpractice insurance company is required to settle cases either. They do so because they are a for-profit business as well.

I'm not arguing that punitive damages don't need to be reduced in some cases, because they do. But its not the plaintiff's lawyer who is at fault for them. What is he supposed to do? Give the money back?
DF, I don't disagree with you. I've known a few plaintiffs bar attorneys and they've been good guys for the most part. Of course they've gotten obcenely rich working within the confines of the current system. Does the problem lie within the legislative body of the states? And what is the profession/educational background of the majority of legislators in a state (or Congress)? Do we have lawyers writing laws that propagate the need for more lawyers and to their financial benefit? Is there a slight conflict of interest? Why can't laws be written in normal English?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.

It will probably be difficult for MAQA yahoos to overcome the Qult programming but they should give being rational & reasonable a try.

Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
danefan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 7989
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
I am a fan of: UAlbany
Location: Hudson Valley, New York

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by danefan »

UNI88 wrote:
danefan wrote:
When was the last time a trial lawyer put a number on a punitive damage claim? I don't handle med-mal cases, but I took the class in law school and if I remember correctly, the jury (or a judge in some cases) are the ones that decide. When was the last time you saw a trial lawyer on a jury?

In NY you cannot even put a requested amount in the complaint anymore. You just certify that it is over the jurisdictional minimum for the court.

My point is this: its not the lawyers fault. They are operating under the system of laws put in place by legislative body of their state andthe common law handed down by judges. They represent their clients to the best of their ability.

No medical malpractice insurance company is required to settle cases either. They do so because they are a for-profit business as well.

I'm not arguing that punitive damages don't need to be reduced in some cases, because they do. But its not the plaintiff's lawyer who is at fault for them. What is he supposed to do? Give the money back?
DF, I don't disagree with you. I've known a few plaintiffs bar attorneys and they've been good guys for the most part. Of course they've gotten obcenely rich working within the confines of the current system. Does the problem lie within the legislative body of the states? And what is the profession/educational background of the majority of legislators in a state (or Congress)? Do we have lawyers writing laws that propagate the need for more lawyers and to their financial benefit? Is there a slight conflict of interest? Why can't laws be written in normal English?
Most of the time each word is placed in law for a particular purpose. When you are trying to write something that covers every situation and leaves no holes the useage of plain language very rarely works. You can take a class in law school on statutory interpretation that studies the use of particular words in particular contexts. There are court cases which spend pages and pages trying to determine whether a comma placed before or after a particular word matters. Its all about writing language that covers all the basis.

I truely believe the problem does lie within the legsilative body. There are states which have taken steps to curb punitive med mal awards and rightfully so.

And if there are too many lawyers writing laws to propagate the need for lawyers than we (citizens) have no one to blame but ourselves. We keep voting these people into office.

And, BTW, just so you guys don't think I'm in favor of the system as it is now, I would like to make it clear that I am against all punitive medical malpractice awards. Compensatory damages should have to be shown to the jury and quantified. Any conduct which deserves a punitive award should be of the level that such action would be criminal. In that case the state should prosecute. The Constitutionality of punitive damages requires the actor to have acted with recklessness, malic or deceit. All levels of intent that you can find scattered throughout most penal codes.
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30435
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: Sailing the Gulf of Mexico

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by UNI88 »

danefan wrote:And if there are too many lawyers writing laws to propagate the need for lawyers than we (citizens) have no one to blame but ourselves. We keep voting these people into office.
Agree.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.

It will probably be difficult for MAQA yahoos to overcome the Qult programming but they should give being rational & reasonable a try.

Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote:
Cleets Part 2 wrote:
Agreed 100%
I can sum the above sentence up...
A) Get lawyers out of the middle of health care
B) See "A"
It would be a good thing, but the major killers are predatory health insurance companies who operate like Enron - profit is the only motive. They need serious competition and the government is the only entity who can do it.
You mean like the postal service does with UPS? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by dbackjon »

AZGrizFan wrote:
D1B wrote:
It would be a good thing, but the major killers are predatory health insurance companies who operate like Enron - profit is the only motive. They need serious competition and the government is the only entity who can do it.
You mean like the postal service does with UPS? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Does UPS deliver a letter for 44 cents?
:thumb:
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
You mean like the postal service does with UPS? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Does UPS deliver a letter for 44 cents?
They don't need to. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :coffee:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Col Hogan »

dbackjon wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
You mean like the postal service does with UPS? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Does UPS deliver a letter for 44 cents?
Does UPS have a Constitutional mandate to serve the nation....or can they elect to just make money...

And to think the government can successfully compete with a for-profit company and keep costs down is just plain hilarious.... :rofl: :rofl:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
D1B
Chris's Bitch
Chris's Bitch
Posts: 18397
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:34 am
I am a fan of: Morehead State

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by D1B »

Col Hogan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Does UPS deliver a letter for 44 cents?
Does UPS have a Constitutional mandate to serve the nation....or can they elect to just make money...

And to think the government can successfully compete with a for-profit company and keep costs down is just plain hilarious.... :rofl: :rofl:
Col Hogan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Does UPS deliver a letter for 44 cents?


Does UPS have a Constitutional mandate to serve the nation....or can they elect to just make money...

And to think the government can successfully compete with a for-profit company and keep costs down is just plain hilarious.... :rofl: :rofl:
Great Hoagie. :shake: Like I tried to teach Z, if this is the case then I'd rather be wasting money on affordable healthcare than throwing it down the toilet with the fucked up military and the wars your party started and lost.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Col Hogan »

D1B wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Does UPS have a Constitutional mandate to serve the nation....or can they elect to just make money...

And to think the government can successfully compete with a for-profit company and keep costs down is just plain hilarious.... :rofl: :rofl:
Col Hogan wrote:


Does UPS have a Constitutional mandate to serve the nation....or can they elect to just make money...

And to think the government can successfully compete with a for-profit company and keep costs down is just plain hilarious.... :rofl: :rofl:
Great Hoagie. :shake: Like I tried to teach Z, if this is the case then I'd rather be wasting money on affordable healthcare than throwing it down the toilet with the **** up military and the wars your party started and lost.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You still don't get it..... :coffee:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
Cleets Part 2
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:29 am
I am a fan of: The Hotness..!!!
A.K.A.: Bentley Ardsmore
Location: Boston to Seattle

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

danefan wrote: I truely believe the problem does lie within the legsilative body.

And if there are too many lawyers writing laws to propagate the need for lawyers than we (citizens) have no one to blame but ourselves. We keep voting these people into office.
Like so many things:
What starts out as a necessary advantage = Politicians needing to have a solid legal background
has become a nightmare

Lawyers are in the middle of everything now...
common sense and reason have now been replaced
(and there is no good substitute for common sense and reason)
- Big 10 Football - So boring Wisconsin is our most exciting team...
- Big 10 Football - Where 117th ranked Purdue is dominant...
- Big 10 Football - Where team speed and passing offense are not required...
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by dbackjon »

Col Hogan wrote:
D1B wrote:

Great Hoagie. :shake: Like I tried to teach Z, if this is the case then I'd rather be wasting money on affordable healthcare than throwing it down the toilet with the **** up military and the wars your party started and lost.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You still don't get it..... :coffee:
And it appears that neither you or AZGRIZ get it either.
:thumb:
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: What's scary about health-care reform?

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You still don't get it..... :coffee:
And it appears that neither you or AZGRIZ get it either.
Jon, I love ya man, but you've got to separate your personal feelings (your friend's incident) and think about what's best for the COUNTRY. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
Post Reply