The Worklessness Crisis

[houndawg]

So in keeping with the theme…how are certain businesses supposed to function without employees?

Nice complete avoidance, buttnugget. Businesses are finding ways to work without nearly as many employees. So I ask again: How is an able-bodied person able to just “choose not to work”? How do they put a roof over their heads? Food on their table? iPhones for their passel of kids? A couple big screen TV’s? XBoxes? Etc., etc? You know….the “essentials”?

When has that ever not been one of their holy grails?

[UNI88]

Nice complete avoidance, buttnugget. Businesses are finding ways to work without nearly as many employees. So I ask again: How is an able-bodied person able to just “choose not to work”? How do they put a roof over their heads? Food on their table? iPhones for their passel of kids? A couple big screen TV’s? XBoxes? Etc., etc? You know….the “essentials”?

When has that ever not been one of their holy grails?

And it's become even more important as employees have become harder to find and more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with a business trying to reduce costs and increase profit as long as it doesn't impact safety, the environment, etc.

[kalm]

When has that ever not been one of their holy grails?

And it's become even more important as employees have become harder to find and more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with a business trying to reduce costs and increase profit as long as it doesn't impact safety, the environment, etc.

There’s nothing wrong but it’s still problematic for society.

Solution: pay less, stabilize employment levels, rely on social assistance to maintain standard of living.

Solution: pay more, take less profit, or move closer to automation (also requires social assistance).

[UNI88]

And it's become even more important as employees have become harder to find and more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with a business trying to reduce costs and increase profit as long as it doesn't impact safety, the environment, etc.

There’s nothing wrong but it’s still problematic for society.

Solution: pay less, stabilize employment levels, rely on social assistance to maintain standard of living.

Solution: pay more, take less profit, or move closer to automation (also requires social assistance).

Why does social assistance have to be a part of the solution?

I'm ok with short-term assistance (job training, childcare, etc.) to help get people on their feet but it's ultimately up to them to put in the effort and make the changes necessary to put a roof over their head and food on their table. It's a very small percentage of people who are unable to do this and need long-term assistance.

It's also problematic for society to have deadbeats who think they're above hard work and that society owes them a good standard of living.

[kalm]

There’s nothing wrong but it’s still problematic for society.

Solution: pay less, stabilize employment levels, rely on social assistance to maintain standard of living.

Solution: pay more, take less profit, or move closer to automation (also requires social assistance).

Why does social assistance have to be a part of the solution?

I'm ok with short-term assistance (job training, childcare, etc.) to help get people on their feet but it's ultimately up to them to put in the effort and make the changes necessary to put a roof over their head and food on their table. It's a very small percentage of people who are unable to do this and need long-term assistance.

It's also problematic for society to have deadbeats who think they're above hard work and that society owes them a good standard of living.

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

[UNI88]

Why does social assistance have to be a part of the solution?

I'm ok with short-term assistance (job training, childcare, etc.) to help get people on their feet but it's ultimately up to them to put in the effort and make the changes necessary to put a roof over their head and food on their table. It's a very small percentage of people who are unable to do this and need long-term assistance.

It's also problematic for society to have deadbeats who think they're above hard work and that society owes them a good standard of living.

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

Bribe them not to be Marxist? AOChe is a perfect example that the ignorant are going to think what they're going to think. Bribing them just takes money away from programs that can make a difference. Tough love might be a better approach.

Our economy can and will need to adjust to changing consumption. Extended social assistance to maintain consumption just delays and worsens the eventual reckoning.

Unlike woeful illiberal, pseudo-progressives, I'm a fan of American ingenuity, hard work and real progress.

[kalm]

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

Bribe them not to be Marxist? AOChe is a perfect example that the ignorant are going to think what they're going to think. Bribing them just takes money away from programs that can make a difference. Tough love might be a better approach.

Our economy can and will need to adjust to changing consumption. Extended social assistance to maintain consumption just delays and worsens the eventual reckoning.

Unlike woeful illiberal, pseudo-progressives, I'm a fan of American ingenuity, hard work and real progress.

As we all are. Very few think they’re a part of the problem. Do you find it curious that greed and envy among the lower classes is shared by the upper classes as well? Greed and envy from both are motivational tools.

You seem to be talking in the utopic theoretical. I’m on board for what you’re saying but it’s also lacking in reality and conditions on the ground.

[AZGrizFan]

Nice complete avoidance, buttnugget. Businesses are finding ways to work without nearly as many employees. So I ask again: How is an able-bodied person able to just “choose not to work”? How do they put a roof over their heads? Food on their table? iPhones for their passel of kids? A couple big screen TV’s? XBoxes? Etc., etc? You know….the “essentials”?

When has that ever not been one of their holy grails?

Yes, but for many businesses now it’s solve the equation or fail. Before it was just a goal, now it’s an absolute necessity.

[AZGrizFan]

Why does social assistance have to be a part of the solution?

I'm ok with short-term assistance (job training, childcare, etc.) to help get people on their feet but it's ultimately up to them to put in the effort and make the changes necessary to put a roof over their head and food on their table. It's a very small percentage of people who are unable to do this and need long-term assistance.

It's also problematic for society to have deadbeats who think they're above hard work and that society owes them a good standard of living.

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

If they’re willing to NOT work and sponge off of their fellow man, they’re ALREADY a Marxist, so where’s this “risk” you speak of?

[kalm]

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

If they’re willing to NOT work and sponge off of their fellow man, they’re ALREADY a Marxist, so where’s this “risk” you speak of?

Critical mass. The current system enables enough wages and public help to satisfy most workers.

[Ibanez]

And it's become even more important as employees have become harder to find and more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with a business trying to reduce costs and increase profit as long as it doesn't impact safety, the environment, etc.

There’s nothing wrong but it’s still problematic for society.

Solution: pay less, stabilize employment levels, rely on social assistance to maintain standard of living.

Solution: pay more, take less profit, or move closer to automation (also requires social assistance).

Automation is the way of the future and is creeping into many facets of every day life.

I'm not sure why there should be any reliance on social assistance. I'm ok with with a safety net for those that need it but it SHOULD accompany job training, job placement. We can take care of our fellow citizens that are having a difficult time but we shouldn't be making them reliant on others. It's a vicious cycle to break, especially for those who are brought up in that environment but it takes personal accountability - that's first and foremost.

[kalm]

There’s nothing wrong but it’s still problematic for society.

Solution: pay less, stabilize employment levels, rely on social assistance to maintain standard of living.

Solution: pay more, take less profit, or move closer to automation (also requires social assistance).

Automation is the way of the future and is creeping into many facets of every day life.

I'm not sure why there should be any reliance on social assistance. I'm ok with with a safety net for those that need it but it SHOULD accompany job training, job placement. We can take care of our fellow citizens that are having a difficult time but we shouldn't be making them reliant on others. It's a vicious cycle to break, especially for those who are brought up in that environment but it takes personal accountability - that's first and foremost.

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

[AZGrizFan]

Automation is the way of the future and is creeping into many facets of every day life.

I'm not sure why there should be any reliance on social assistance. I'm ok with with a safety net for those that need it but it SHOULD accompany job training, job placement. We can take care of our fellow citizens that are having a difficult time but we shouldn't be making them reliant on others. It's a vicious cycle to break, especially for those who are brought up in that environment but it takes personal accountability - that's first and foremost.

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

Why is it considered greedy to accumulate wealth but NOT greedy to desire wealth someone ELSE has created?

[UNI88]

Automation is the way of the future and is creeping into many facets of every day life.

I'm not sure why there should be any reliance on social assistance. I'm ok with with a safety net for those that need it but it SHOULD accompany job training, job placement. We can take care of our fellow citizens that are having a difficult time but we shouldn't be making them reliant on others. It's a vicious cycle to break, especially for those who are brought up in that environment but it takes personal accountability - that's first and foremost.

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

[Ivytalk]

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

“ Greed is good!” — Gordon Gekko, Esq.

[CAA Flagship]

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

A-greed.

[AZGrizFan]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

“ Greed is good!” — Gordon Gekko, Esq.

For lack of a better word….

[houndawg]

Simple:

1). Risk of drastic societal changes which bring at least the risk of unintended consequences if not worse (IE don’t give them a reason to be Marxist)

2). Our economy is significantly based on the consumption of the working class.

Walmart found the sweet spot by paying low wages, profiting from low margin/ hi volume sales of imported goods, while letting the government at least partially subsidize consumer spending, social welfare, healthcare etc.

It matters very little what you and I think people are worth or what they should be paid.

But if you’re a big fan of Walmart and Marxism, please disregard the above.

If they’re willing to NOT work and sponge off of their fellow man, they’re ALREADY a Marxist, so where’s this “risk” you speak of?

Marxism isn't bad or good, Z, its about how people use it.

Just like guns.

[CID1990]

If they’re willing to NOT work and sponge off of their fellow man, they’re ALREADY a Marxist, so where’s this “risk” you speak of?

Marxism isn't bad or good, Z, its about how people use it.

Just like guns.

Marxism is like mayonnaise, Houndy

Leave it out long enough and it turns poisonous


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[houndawg]

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Really?

The Marxists running the world's biggest economy don't seem to be thinking that way at all.....

[houndawg]

Marxism isn't bad or good, Z, its about how people use it.

Just like guns.

Marxism is like mayonnaise, Houndy

Leave it out long enough and it turns poisonous


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice one - I was expecting some convulsive retching from Z about how they aren't truly "Marxists". Looks like democracy is mayonaise-based too

[kalm]

I agree. And right along with personal accountability is less greed.

But hope in one hand….

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

I’m trying to look back further than a 19th century book on impractical economic class theory.

Greed like capitalism is good…if regulated properly.

[UNI88]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Really?

The Marxists running the world's biggest economy don't seem to be thinking that way at all.....

Where would the Marxists running the world's biggest economy be if they couldn't have stolen the intellectual property of western countries and companies through espionage and thuggery? If they hadn't been able to send their best and brightest to western universities for decades?

I wait for your flippant and shallow answer.

[UNI88]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

I’m trying to look back further than a 19th century book on impractical economic class theory.

Greed like capitalism is good…if regulated properly.

You responded to me so giving a generic response stereotyping all conservatives is bullshit.

1. I opposed Trump's tax cuts, believing that we need to focus on deficit reduction. The tax rates before those cuts (except for Trump's limits on SALT deductions) were about right. We need to look at restructuring and reducing corporate taxes to to encourage job creation and make businesses more competitive internationally.
2. I consider myself a liberal but in the classical sense. Modern liberals are illiberal.
3. I studied political science and economics and have a pretty good understanding of what Marxism (or socialism) is and isn't. Bernie and AOChe are self-described socialists. The leap from socialist to Marxist is a lot shorter than the leap from narcissistic egomaniac (Trump) to fascist that you and many others have made so you getting your panties in a bunch is ironic.

[AZGrizFan]

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

I’m trying to look back further than a 19th century book on impractical economic class theory.

Greed like capitalism is good…if regulated properly.

The leap from socialist to Marxist is a lot shorter than the leap from narcissistic egomaniac (Trump) to fascist that you and many others have made so you getting your panties in a bunch is ironic.

Should have just led with that and left it at that.