The Ukraine Crisis

[89Hen]

Trump: right about wiretapping in Trump Tower. Right about Russiagate. Right about NATO needing to spend more on defense. Right about the sanctions on the Russian pipeline. Right about European countries needing to get off the Russian oil teet…

For an idiot, he sure has ended up being right about a lot of shit…

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked.

[AZGrizFan]

Trump: right about wiretapping in Trump Tower. Right about Russiagate. Right about NATO needing to spend more on defense. Right about the sanctions on the Russian pipeline. Right about European countries needing to get off the Russian oil teet…

For an idiot, he sure has ended up being right about a lot of shit…

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked.

Lol. Well they worked better than Biden blessing the fucking thing.

[Ibanez]

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked.

Lol. Well they worked better than Biden blessing the fucking thing.

I assume you're referring to Nordstrem 2, which began construction during Trump's presidency and continued until last fall. If sanctions were to prevent/hinder its construction, they failed.

[SeattleGriz]

Lol. Well they worked better than Biden blessing the fucking thing.

I assume you're referring to Nordstrem 2, which began construction during Trump's presidency and continued until last fall. If sanctions were to prevent/hinder its construction, they failed.

Loving the "But Trump! defense.

Oh yeah, you have Ukrainian blood on your hands for voting for Biden. That's how that works, right?

[Ibanez]

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked.

There were sanctions levied against Russia during Obama and Trumps administrations and continued through Biden's obviously weren't a deterrent.

Trump was contradictory and sent confusing messages. For instance, Trump agreed to provide Ukraine with "lethal aid", something Obama wouldn't do. But then he refuses to give the aid until Ukraine made statements about the 2016 Election, Hilary and some nonsense...but then finally obstructed OMB to release the aid. Or how about that Sanctions act they he signed, criticized it....but then never acted on the sanctions past the deadline. That was somewhere around 2018/2019. What was the entire point of that bill if you weren't going to enforce it/utilize it? If you recall, the WH said the bill it self was a deterrent and they didn't need to actually enforce it.

[Ibanez]

I assume you're referring to Nordstrem 2, which began construction during Trump's presidency and continued until last fall. If sanctions were to prevent/hinder its construction, they failed.

Loving the "But Trump! defense.

Oh yeah, you have Ukrainian blood on your hands for voting for Biden. That's how that works, right?

You'd have to ask SD - he's the one running around with that trope. I'm actually saying the years of sanctioning, going back before Trump, have all been failures.


I think CID would agree with me - our foreign policy towards Russia has been flawed from the beginning.

[AZGrizFan]

Lol. Well they worked better than Biden blessing the fucking thing.

I assume you're referring to Nordstrem 2, which began construction during Trump's presidency and continued until last fall. If sanctions were to prevent/hinder its construction, they failed.

Then what were the sanctions that Biden lifted? Why bother?

[Ibanez]

I assume you're referring to Nordstrem 2, which began construction during Trump's presidency and continued until last fall. If sanctions were to prevent/hinder its construction, they failed.

Then what were the sanctions that Biden lifted? Why bother?

I don't necessarily disagree. I get the Biden reason - if the sanctions that were meant to prevent/hinder its construction failed to that and the pipeline was just about complete, what was the point. If that's the case, why not just leave them as window dressing.

[89Hen]

There were sanctions levied against Russia during Obama and Trumps administrations and continued through Biden's obviously weren't a deterrent.

The Biden administration has waived sanctions on a company building a controversial gas pipeline between Russia and Germany.

The US also lifted sanctions on the executive - an ally of Russia's Vladimir Putin - who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project.

The move came in a report on Russian sanctions delivered to Congress by the Department of State.

Critics say the pipeline is a major geopolitical prize for the Kremlin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57180674

[Skjellyfetti]

how about withholding congressionally authorized military aid to Ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden.

are we still thinking that was a-ok?

[AZGrizFan]

how about withholding congressionally authorized military aid to Ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden.

are we still thinking that was a-ok?

Lol. Are we still thinking that’s actually what happened?

[AZGrizFan]

Then what were the sanctions that Biden lifted? Why bother?

I don't necessarily disagree. I get the Biden reason - if the sanctions that were meant to prevent/hinder its construction failed to that and the pipeline was just about complete, what was the point. If that's the case, why not just leave them as window dressing.

Fine. Take the pipeline out of my list. Doesnt’ change the fact that Trump has been right about a shitload of things that he got mocked for.

[89Hen]

how about withholding congressionally authorized military aid to Ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden.

are we still thinking that was a-ok?

Look what crawled out from under a rock with Ukrainegate.

[Ibanez]

There were sanctions levied against Russia during Obama and Trumps administrations and continued through Biden's obviously weren't a deterrent.

The Biden administration has waived sanctions on a company building a controversial gas pipeline between Russia and Germany.

The US also lifted sanctions on the executive - an ally of Russia's Vladimir Putin - who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project.

The move came in a report on Russian sanctions delivered to Congress by the Department of State.

Critics say the pipeline is a major geopolitical prize for the Kremlin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57180674

That was a mis-wording on my part, my apologies.

Doesn't change the fact that saying Trump, or any US president was tough on Russia, is a bit of a joke.

[Ibanez]

I don't necessarily disagree. I get the Biden reason - if the sanctions that were meant to prevent/hinder its construction failed to that and the pipeline was just about complete, what was the point. If that's the case, why not just leave them as window dressing.

Fine. Take the pipeline out of my list. Doesnt’ change the fact that Trump has been right about a shitload of things that he got mocked for.

It's true, he was. And I'll say it again - any POTUS that is immediately accused of treason and all these crimes and is a target of impeachment before they're even inaugurated has every right to be paranoid. Trump was not given the benefit of the doubt from the beginning.

[Ibanez]

how about withholding congressionally authorized military aid to Ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden.

are we still thinking that was a-ok?

Lol. Are we still thinking that’s actually what happened?

Doesn't the white house transcripts confirm that. And the testimony of people directly involved?

[89Hen]

Doesn't change the fact that saying Trump, or any US president was tough on Russia, is a bit of a joke.

But it is accurate to say some were better in dealing with Russia. I just find it hilarious that Trump haters (not you) STILL think Trump was in bed with Putin and we were doomed, but as soon as Trump leaves office, Putin goes on the offensive because of Biden's feckless behavior.

But I will warn you... you're starting to sound a little like JSO on this thread. Careful my friend, it's not a far fall.

[Skjellyfetti]

Lol. Are we still thinking that’s actually what happened?

Doesn't the white house transcripts confirm that. And the testimony of people directly involved?

yeah, i really thought we ended that whole saga with 'it happened, but it's not illegal or impeachable.'

i guess the consensus here ended up being that trump's ambassador to the EU, his ambassador to Ukraine, and his closest Ukraine advisor on the NSC all made it up.

[Ibanez]

Doesn't change the fact that saying Trump, or any US president was tough on Russia, is a bit of a joke.

But it is accurate to say some were better in dealing with Russia. I just find it hilarious that Trump haters (not you) STILL think Trump was in bed with Putin and we were doomed, but as soon as Trump leaves office, Putin goes on the offensive because of Biden's feckless behavior.

But I will warn you... you're starting to sound a little like JSO on this thread. Careful my friend, it's not a far fall.

I hope my criticisms of Obama and Biden are enough to prevent that. After all - I've agreed with AZ and BDK about Trump (and you know how much BDK and I do NOT agree). I find Biden less repellant than Trump but at the end of the day, Biden is ineffectual and inoffensive. I don't believe Trump was a Putin Puppet but based off the comments of his sons regarding the Trump company's relationships with Russian banks, I would not be surprised if there wasn't a time Russian oligarchs tried to apply pressure during the Trump administration.

To your point about Putin doing this a year after Trump, I get it. It makes sense and certainly lends credence to the "weak" president idea of Democratic Presidents. But I don't believe that to be the only factor nor to even be a major factor in this case. Nor should we look at the root cause of this invasion with only that in mind. There are so many other contributing factors that explain why Ukraine and why now. It's a bit myopic to only focus on one.

[UNI88]

how about withholding congressionally authorized military aid to Ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden.

are we still thinking that was a-ok?

Lol. Are we still thinking that’s actually what happened?

I don't doubt it. Trump's a vindictive shit who's definitely capable of putting personal grudges ahead of actual leadership.

I don't necessarily disagree. I get the Biden reason - if the sanctions that were meant to prevent/hinder its construction failed to that and the pipeline was just about complete, what was the point. If that's the case, why not just leave them as window dressing.

Fine. Take the pipeline out of my list. Doesnt’ change the fact that Trump has been right about a shitload of things that he got mocked for.

I criticize Trump a lot but IMO, his administration had more successes than failures.

[Ibanez]

Lol. Are we still thinking that’s actually what happened?

I don't doubt it. Trump's a vindictive shit who's definitely capable of putting personal grudges ahead of actual leadership.

Fine. Take the pipeline out of my list. Doesnt’ change the fact that Trump has been right about a shitload of things that he got mocked for.

I criticize Trump a lot but IMO, his administration had more successes than failures.

I wish Trump had been as aggressive and hardline with Russia as he was with China. China needs to be held to account and we started seeing that with him.


That and new NAFTA was a huge win (though saying the money from it would pay for a wall was stupid.) Presidents never miss an opportunity to stick their feet in their mouths.

[BDKJMU]

Trump: right about wiretapping in Trump Tower. Right about Russiagate. Right about NATO needing to spend more on defense. Right about the sanctions on the Russian pipeline. Right about European countries needing to get off the Russian oil teet…

For an idiot, he sure has ended up being right about a lot of shit…

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked. Trump was wrong about a rigged 2020 election. Wrong about COVID-19 just going away. Wrong about Russian interference in the 2016 election. Wrong about Russian sponsored SolarWinds hack that occurred on his watch. Wrong about Ukraine hacking out elections.


He was wrong and right about many things but let's not canonize the man just yet.

That was Hillary..

[BDKJMU]

There were sanctions levied against Russia during Obama and Trumps administrations and continued through Biden's
obviously weren't a deterrent.

Trump was contradictory and sent confusing messages. For instance, Trump agreed to provide Ukraine with "lethal aid", something Obama wouldn't do. But then he refuses to give the aid until Ukraine made statements about the 2016 Election, Hilary and some nonsense...but then finally obstructed OMB to release the aid. Or how about that Sanctions act they he signed, criticized it....but then never acted on the sanctions past the deadline. That was somewhere around 2018/2019. What was the entire point of that bill if you weren't going to enforce it/utilize it? If you recall, the WH said the bill it self was a deterrent and they didn't need to actually enforce it.

Wrong.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canad ... %20project.

[AZGrizFan]

Trump: right about wiretapping in Trump Tower. Right about Russiagate. Right about NATO needing to spend more on defense. Right about the sanctions on the Russian pipeline. Right about European countries needing to get off the Russian oil teet…

For an idiot, he sure has ended up being right about a lot of shit…

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked. Trump was wrong about a rigged 2020 election. Wrong about COVID-19 just going away. Wrong about Russian interference in the 2016 election. Wrong about Russian sponsored SolarWinds hack that occurred on his watch. Wrong about Ukraine hacking out elections.


He was wrong and right about many things but let's not canonize the man just yet.

He was wrong about many things. Biden’s administration has been wrong about literally EVERYTHING. Every single thing Biden’s administration does is reflexive in nature. There appears to be ZERO pre-planning, scenario planning, etc., etc. to actually BE PREPARED for cases just like this. How in the fuck does Biden, on one hand, stand before the American people yesterday and say “we’ve been saying for weeks that this invasion was coming” but we have taken exactly ZERO steps to help beef up Ukraine’s military defense capabilities to help thwart the attack? And now they’re literally BEGGING for stuff that we and other should have been sending weeks, if not months ago.

Every single thing that happens during this administration seems to be a surprise. He’s way, way way more worried about what the skin color is of his latest SC nominee than he is about evacuating Americans in Afghanistan or helping to get countries like Ukraine better prepared for something he has admitted they knew was coming for weeks (just like the eventual evacuation date of Afghanistan).

They are clueless, and appear even more clueless at every crises.

[Ibanez]

Oh yeah.. those Russian sanctions sure worked. Trump was wrong about a rigged 2020 election. Wrong about COVID-19 just going away. Wrong about Russian interference in the 2016 election. Wrong about Russian sponsored SolarWinds hack that occurred on his watch. Wrong about Ukraine hacking out elections.


He was wrong and right about many things but let's not canonize the man just yet.

That was Hillary..

Hilary was doing her own criminal shit. This was separate. I'm referring to the misinformation campaign by Russian trolls. I'm glad Hillary lost - she should've been locked up long ago.

as a side note - Trump had 4 years and the DOJ at his beck and call and they STILL couldn't lock her up.