The Ukraine Crisis

[CID1990]

Wrong.

These are actual photos, dude. Direct from NGA.

You and SD are full on flat-earthing now. I’m gonna have to come up with a Reeky nickname for you guys.

I’m not feeling all that creative today. How about just Reek 2 and Reek 3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to call me whatever you want, makes no difference to me. I'm just not willing to go along with another pro-war narrative so our troops can get sucked into another quagmire. Learned my lesson after 9/11. That said, I have no problem selling as much weapons as possible to Ukraine so they can do the fighting and dying in this war against Russia and I hope they kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.

Was this area shelled by Ukraine during the Russian occupation?

What part of Russian soldiers indiscriminately and verifiably murdering civilians in cold blood is a “narrative”?

How do you actually spin that?

Did you watch the Carlson boy tonight? What did he say? I bet he backpedaled and asked what was wrong with just askin’ questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

Wrong.

These are actual photos, dude. Direct from NGA.

You and SD are full on flat-earthing now. I’m gonna have to come up with a Reeky nickname for you guys.

I’m not feeling all that creative today. How about just Reek 2 and Reek 3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to call me whatever you want, makes no difference to me. I'm just not willing to go along with another pro-war narrative so our troops can get sucked into another quagmire. Learned my lesson after 9/11. That said, I have no problem selling as much weapons as possible to Ukraine so they can do the fighting and dying in this war against Russia and I hope they kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.

Was this area shelled by Ukraine during the Russian occupation?

I love his made up scenario that we are actually FSB agents loose in America buying Facebook ads to influence Russiany type stuff. Eh Comrade?

[SDHornet]

Feel free to call me whatever you want, makes no difference to me. I'm just not willing to go along with another pro-war narrative so our troops can get sucked into another quagmire. Learned my lesson after 9/11. That said, I have no problem selling as much weapons as possible to Ukraine so they can do the fighting and dying in this war against Russia and I hope they kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.

Was this area shelled by Ukraine during the Russian occupation?

I love his made up scenario that we are actually FSB agents loose in America buying Facebook ads to influence Russiany type stuff. Eh Comrade?

Shut up, the check is way less now that its being pain in rubles. We have to work overtime now.

[CID1990]

Wrong.

These are actual photos, dude. Direct from NGA.

You and SD are full on flat-earthing now. I’m gonna have to come up with a Reeky nickname for you guys.

I’m not feeling all that creative today. How about just Reek 2 and Reek 3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You still haven't posted one worthwhile link.

If you want us to fully understand, then post worthwhile links. HotAir's Allahpundit ain't it.

Its like I tell klam…

I’m not doing the work for you (and it isn’t even work).

The NYT has a very good takedown of Russian propaganda claiming that Ukrainians killed all those civilians.

If you are too stupid to go to the NYT and actually look at the imagery then I don’t know what else to do - other than to point out that you asking me to
give you links is like asking me to show you a photo of the sky to prove it is blue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SDHornet]

Feel free to call me whatever you want, makes no difference to me. I'm just not willing to go along with another pro-war narrative so our troops can get sucked into another quagmire. Learned my lesson after 9/11. That said, I have no problem selling as much weapons as possible to Ukraine so they can do the fighting and dying in this war against Russia and I hope they kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.

Was this area shelled by Ukraine during the Russian occupation?

What part of Russian soldiers indiscriminately and verifiably murdering civilians in cold blood is a “narrative”?

How do you actually spin that?

Did you watch the Carlson boy tonight? What did he say? I bet he backpedaled and asked what was wrong with just askin’ questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How can this be confirmed beyond the dead bodies in the streets? How do we know these people were gunned down?

No I don't watch Tucker because I don't have cable.

[CID1990]

What part of Russian soldiers indiscriminately and verifiably murdering civilians in cold blood is a “narrative”?

How do you actually spin that?

Did you watch the Carlson boy tonight? What did he say? I bet he backpedaled and asked what was wrong with just askin’ questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How can this be confirmed beyond the dead bodies in the streets? How do we know these people were gunned down?

No I don't watch Tucker because I don't have cable.

Because they are dead with holes in their heads, SD

What is the alternative explanation?

Here’s your chance… why don’t you tell everyone what they are actually seeing… instead of believing their lyin’ eyes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SDHornet]

How can this be confirmed beyond the dead bodies in the streets? How do we know these people were gunned down?

No I don't watch Tucker because I don't have cable.

Because they are dead with holes in their heads, SD

What is the alternative explanation?

Here’s your chance… why don’t you tell everyone what they are actually seeing… instead of believing their lyin’ eyes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Autopsy's have been completed? Or we just going off of satellite photos?

I see dead people in the street. I don't know how they died. And not buying MSM on telling me how or who killed them at this point. They have no credibility.

[SeattleGriz]

Because they are dead with holes in their heads, SD

What is the alternative explanation?

Here’s your chance… why don’t you tell everyone what they are actually seeing… instead of believing their lyin’ eyes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Autopsy's have been completed? Or we just going off of satellite photos?

I see dead people in the street. I don't know how they died. And not buying MSM on telling me how or who killed them at this point. They have no credibility.

Not just satellite photos, but we're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

[SDHornet]

Autopsy's have been completed? Or we just going off of satellite photos?

I see dead people in the street. I don't know how they died. And not buying MSM on telling me how or who killed them at this point. They have no credibility.

We're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

The timeline of when the bodies showed up and who controlled that area should put that together for us. The bodies are now in UK possession so I would assume autopsies are done and we'll know either gun shots or shrapnel (or other). Was the area shelled by UK when RS had control? Lots of questions to be answered which should be answered in short time. I'm just not willing to jump on the outrage bandwagon at this point given all we have is some satellite photos.

[Ivytalk]

We're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

The timeline of when the bodies showed up and who controlled that area should put that together for us. The bodies are now in UK possession so I would assume autopsies are done and we'll know either gun shots or shrapnel (or other). Was the area shelled by UK when RS had control? Lots of questions to be answered which should be answered in short time. I'm just not willing to jump on the outrage bandwagon at this point given all we have is some satellite photos.

Yeah, SD, easy to shoot yourself in the head when your hands are tied behind your back. Don’t miss your QAnon meeting tonight.

[houndawg]

Not buyin it. Amazing timing. Right after Azov atrocities, we have counter balancing Russia crimes. Bullshit.

Needs to be corroborated by an independent source. Not putting atrocities happening to and being committed by either the Ukrainians or Russians as out of the realm of possibility.

This will be used by the uniparty to push for NATO/US boots on the ground like the gas attacks in Syria and the "babies in incubators" in the first Gulf War.

SD Hornet

Straight up war crimes and apparently you and SG are the only people on the planet that haven't seen the pics, but you're probably swallowing the "staged with actors" line from Putin too. There isn't any he said/she said here, SD, this is Derek Chauvin executing a handcuffed George Floyd in broad daylight in the middle of the street in front of a dozen eyewitnesses. Of course you're from the crowd that figured George Floyd got what he deserved so your out-of-stepness-with-the-rest-of-the-world is understandable even if rather revolting.

[Ibanez]

The timeline of when the bodies showed up and who controlled that area should put that together for us. The bodies are now in UK possession so I would assume autopsies are done and we'll know either gun shots or shrapnel (or other). Was the area shelled by UK when RS had control? Lots of questions to be answered which should be answered in short time. I'm just not willing to jump on the outrage bandwagon at this point given all we have is some satellite photos.

Yeah, SD, easy to shoot yourself in the head when your hands are tied behind your back. Don’t miss your QAnon meeting tonight.

[kalm]

At some point, Russia may have serious trouble even funding the war not to mention the deepening domestic economic issues.

The United States is pushing Russia to the brink of a potential sovereign debt default by preventing the country from paying holders of that debt funds due on Monday.


The U.S. stopped Russia paying its bondholders more than $600 million on Monday from reserves the country holds in U.S.-based banks, potentially forcing the Kremlin to use its other dollar reserves to pay down the debt.

If Russia does not make debt repayments using the dollars its government has access to, the country risks a sovereign debt default.

https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-pushes-rus ... 7phTdJO7c0

[Ibanez]

A pro-Russian soldier, holding a Second World War era Mosin rifle - prepares to join the People's Militia of the Lugansk People's Republic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urces.html

[Skjellyfetti]

You still haven't posted one worthwhile link.

If you want us to fully understand, then post worthwhile links. HotAir's Allahpundit ain't it.

Its like I tell klam…

I’m not doing the work for you (and it isn’t even work).

The NYT has a very good takedown of Russian propaganda claiming that Ukrainians killed all those civilians.

If you are too stupid to go to the NYT and actually look at the imagery then I don’t know what else to do - other than to point out that you asking me to
give you links is like asking me to show you a photo of the sky to prove it is blue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The NYT report relies on satellite imagery, though

Satellites are part of the "round earth" MSM narrative

[Ibanez]

Autopsy's have been completed? Or we just going off of satellite photos?

I see dead people in the street. I don't know how they died. And not buying MSM on telling me how or who killed them at this point. They have no credibility.

Not just satellite photos, but we're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

[SeattleGriz]

Not just satellite photos, but we're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

Only criticizing the NYT if they can't corroborate their story.

Where I'm having trouble is the Mayor of Bucha is in video on March 31st declaring the Russians had left and no mention of atrocities. Also official Ukrainian police report from April 2nd mentioned nothing of atrocities or dead bodies.

[Ibanez]

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

Only criticizing the NYT if they can't corroborate their story.

Where I'm having trouble is the Mayor of Bucha is in video on March 31st declaring the Russians had left and no mention of atrocities. Also official Ukrainian police report from April 2nd mentioned nothing of atrocities or dead bodies.

Is it possible that in the last 3-4 days, as Ukrainians started going back into the city, that these bodies were discovered? I feel that we started hearing these stories around Friday of last week. I remember seeing on Saturday, April 2, the stories about charred bodies and corpses with their hands tied.

Timeline of Withdrawal
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs statement claimed in its Telegram statement that Russian forces pulled out of Bucha on March 30. It also alleged that “the so-called ’evidence of crimes’ in Bucha did not emerge until the fourth day” after its forces had apparently left, which would be April 3, “when the Security Service of Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian media arrived in the town.” The Russian statement also cites a video posted online by the mayor of Bucha, Anatoliy Fedoruk, which claimed Bucha had been liberated as of 31 March 2022.

Other statements, reports and open source evidence, however, raise questions about this timeline and the complete accuracy of Fedoruk’s March 31 claim.

For example, Russian media outlet TV Zvezda claimed in an article published on the morning of April 1 that: “Airborne units, in cooperation with the Marines, successfully held back the actions of enemy forces in the direction of Gostomel – Bucha – Lakes for five days. As a result, the Marines were able to take full control of the territory from the Irpin River towards Kiev, with a total length of five kilometres.

“The commander of one of the Marine units Alexey Shabulin noted that currently Russian Marines conduct search and reconnaissance operations and clean up settlements with the further task of gaining a foothold in them”, the TV Zvezda article stated.

On the morning of April 1, meanwhile, a video was shared on Telegram featuring the secretary of the Bucha City Council, Taras Shapravsky, stating: “Currently, the city remains under occupation, many mines, houses and even corpses. Therefore, we ask those who remain not to approach dangerous objects. The liberation of the city continues, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, territorial defence are working to regain every metre of native land”.

Video Footage From Bucha
Videos and photographs from Bucha, showing deceased individuals in civilian clothes, first appeared on social media channels on April 1.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/04 ... -evidence/

Or did the Ukes murder its own citizens and stage these scenes to further vilify the Russians - those patriotic stewards of liberty and freedom.

[Ibanez]

No, SG.

I read the fucking intel.

And you know what? This war is so accessible and OUT IN THE OPEN that actual SCI intelligence looks just marginally different than open source you can see on the MSM news reports.

That’s why I can unequivocally say to you and the rest on here who think you even remotely know what you are talking about … you being intentionally wrong about this on all levels. I can only speculate why.

I don’t even feel the need to “win” this argument with you or any others on here. Because right now I see Russian soldiers who are just as susceptible as you are, murdering Ukrainian civilians… riding their bicycles… hanging out in their dacha gardens, going to the fucking CVS for a sudafed because spring is coming

This willful indifference to reality in the face of overwhelming evidence (I would literally show it to you, but it is SO EASY to find that I already realize you dont WANT to see it)

It really hammers home to me what Anna Berendt meant by the “banality of evil”. You and the other deniers are no different from the Hitler sympathizers in the 1930s like Joe Kennedy and Henry Ford … who had no real idea what they were fucking talking about but they were damn sure those Germans were kicking those commies’ asses.

I’d stick around here long enough for the inevitable moment when you and some others have to backpedal on this (and you will) but I’m too nauseated to stay here for the few months’ wait that would require.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's see your open source Intel.

And please, don't "speculate" on my motives.

Links to OSINT was provided a week or so ago. I like Bellingcat, personally.

[BDKJMU]

A pro-Russian soldier, holding a Second World War era Mosin rifle - prepares to join the People's Militia of the Lugansk People's Republic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urces.html

I’ve got 2 Mosin Nagants. One is a 1942 Izhevsk 91/30 like the one above, & one is an M44 carbine- Hungarian made in 1953.

[Ibanez]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urces.html

I’ve got 2 Mosin Nagants. One is a 1942 Izhevsk 91/30 like the one above, & one is an M44 carbine- Hungarian made in 1953.

Do they still fire? I have a Type 99 Ariska Rifle with a fully intact chrysanthemum. I've fired it once with a custom bullet

[BDKJMU]

Not just satellite photos, but we're going off the NYT! They've never been wrong.

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

I don’t trust the MSM or the IC. The MSM (NYT included) said Hunter’s laptop was Russian misinfo when they knew that wasn’t. the case. But the ends justified the means- getting rid of Trump.

Those 51 former higher up intel folks said Russian misinfo when they knew that wasn’t the case, but again the ends justified the means.

With that being said, I do belive the Russians are committing atrocities beyond shelling civiliam areas- the shooting of civilians. Question is how widespread? Is it mainly a few rogue, undisciplined units in the north, or is it in the south and east also?
Is it some senior NCOs, lieutenants & captains that have sanctioned this, or does it go much higher up?

[Ibanez]

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

I don’t trust the MSM or the IC. The MSM (NYT included) said Hunter’s laptop was Russian misinfo when they knew that wasn’t. the case. But the ends justified the means- getting rid of Trump.

Those 51 former higher up intel folks said Russian misinfo when they knew that wasn’t the case, but again the ends justified the means.

With that being said, I do belive the Russians are committing atrocities beyond shelling civiliam areas- the shooting of civilians. Question is how widespread? Is it mainly a few rogue, undisciplined units in the north, or is it in the south and east also?
Is it some senior NCOs, lieutenants & captains that have sanctioned this, or does it go much higher up?

That's a very reasonable response and logical opinion. I believe, based off the satellite imagery which the MSM is just reporting on and not actually creating, it helps lend some credence to their reporting.

[BDKJMU]

I’ve got 2 Mosin Nagants. One is a 1942 Izhevsk 91/30 like the one above, & one is an M44 carbine- Hungarian made in 1953.

Do they still fire? I have a Type 99 Ariska Rifle with a fully intact chrysanthemum. I've fired it once with a custom bullet

Yep. Also have a frankensteined Russian capture German 98k.

Still on the wish list to get a Jap gun (probably an Arisaka Type 38 or 99). Seems most of those mums were ground off before being turned over as general surrender weapons- something about not dishonoring the emperor. If you have an intact mum probably a field capture, which means worth more $$.

Assuming not rebarreled, shoots 7.7x58 JAP ammo, altough one of those expensive boutique rounds (ammoseek currently shows only 1 place, $2.65 a round)

[Ibanez]

Do they still fire? I have a Type 99 Ariska Rifle with a fully intact chrysanthemum. I've fired it once with a custom bullet

Yep. Also have a frankensteined Russian capture German 98k.

Still on the wish list to get a Jap gun (probably an Arisaka Type 38 or 99). Seems most of those mums were ground off before being turned over as general surrender weapons- something about not dishonoring the emperor. If you have an intact mum probably a field capture, which means worth more $$.

Assuming not rebarreled, shoots 7.7x58 JAP ammo, altough one of those expensive boutique rounds (ammoseek currently shows only 1 place, $2.65 a round)

Yup, mine came from the Battle of Okinawa. MrsCCUs grandfather took it from a dead soldier.