The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

You still have said absolutely nothing that can be validated in regards to the Russians solely commiting the deaths. I do appreciate you trying to carry this thread. It was dying.

Why does it matter if Russia directly killed 100% of those people (which I don't think anyone is saying, other than the fact that likely none of those people would be dead if Russia hadn't invaded in the first place) or if Russia killed most of those people (especially the ones tied up and shot in the head) and then some unfortunately fell to friendly fire as the Ukranians tried to take back the town (and expel the Russians from Ukranian soil, which again is the main driver of everything here, Russia's invasion of a sovereign nation without cause)? What you're trying to argue just seems nonsensical and trivial.

Because I'd like an accurate accounting of what is really happening. History will judge what was done.

On a little tangent, what did the white sash's on those shot in the head signify?

[houndawg]

You still have said absolutely nothing that can be validated in regards to the Russians solely commiting the deaths. I do appreciate you trying to carry this thread. It was dying.

Why does it matter if Russia directly killed 100% of those people (which I don't think anyone is saying, other than the fact that likely none of those people would be dead if Russia hadn't invaded in the first place) or if Russia killed most of those people (especially the ones tied up and shot in the head) and then some unfortunately fell to friendly fire as the Ukranians tried to take back the town (and expel the Russians from Ukranian soil, which again is the main driver of everything here, Russia's invasion of a sovereign nation without cause)? What you're trying to argue just seems nonsensical and trivial.

Red herring.

Suddenly he's all about arguing for proof to a scientific level of certainty. (Which does exist and which CID told him where to find.)

His biggest fear is that somehow Biden is going to come out of this looking better than SG would like.

[houndawg]

Agreed, but now the fact the mass graves were dug by the people of Bucha and not the Russians, doesn't that counter the IC's assessment?

The more important question is who killed those people. I understand a locality having to make a mass grave due to an overwhelming number of corpses.

Except when you're trying to move the goalpoast

[SeattleGriz]

Why does it matter if Russia directly killed 100% of those people (which I don't think anyone is saying, other than the fact that likely none of those people would be dead if Russia hadn't invaded in the first place) or if Russia killed most of those people (especially the ones tied up and shot in the head) and then some unfortunately fell to friendly fire as the Ukranians tried to take back the town (and expel the Russians from Ukranian soil, which again is the main driver of everything here, Russia's invasion of a sovereign nation without cause)? What you're trying to argue just seems nonsensical and trivial.

Red herring.

Suddenly he's all about arguing for proof to a scientific level of certainty. (Which does exist and which CID told him where to find.)

His biggest fear is that somehow Biden is going to come out of this looking better than SG would like.

And I thought I was bad at trolling. Little tip. Try not to shoot your troll all in one shot. You've got to string it out better.

Scientific proof
Cid saying the internet would prove claims
Biden looking good.

What a mess. I expected more out of a varsity letterman.

[houndawg]

Red herring.

Suddenly he's all about arguing for proof to a scientific level of certainty. (Which does exist and which CID told him where to find.)

His biggest fear is that somehow Biden is going to come out of this looking better than SG would like.

And I thought I was bad at trolling. Little tip. Try not to shoot your troll all in one shot. You've got to string it out better.

Scientific proof
Cid saying the internet would prove claims
Biden looking good.

What a mess. I expected more out of a varsity letterman.

There was more back when things were interesting

[AZGrizFan]

And I thought I was bad at trolling. Little tip. Try not to shoot your troll all in one shot. You've got to string it out better.

Scientific proof
Cid saying the internet would prove claims
Biden looking good.

What a mess. I expected more out of a varsity letterman.

There was more back when things were interesting

Bullshit again.

[SeattleGriz]

That was a big hit. Seeing people compare that ships impact to this war to what a carriers' impact would have from an influence standpoint.

sounds like its influence has been demoted to a stationary submarine.

Is this the same boat? Said crew has abandoned, but moving east. Believe fire is still going on below deck.

https://news.usni.org/2022/04/13/russia ... doned-ship

Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship appears to be heading toward Sevastopol, Crimea, after sustaining major damage in a fire Wednesday, a senior defense official told reporters Thursday.

The Department of Defense cannot confirm what caused the fire on RTS Moskva (121), the defense official said. Moskva was about 60-65 nautical miles south of Odesa when the fire started.

“It very well could have been from an external source like like a missile,” the defense official said.

[Skjellyfetti]

sounds like its influence has been demoted to a stationary submarine.

Is this the same boat? Said crew has abandoned, but moving east. Believe fire is still going on below deck.

https://news.usni.org/2022/04/13/russia ... doned-ship

Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship appears to be heading toward Sevastopol, Crimea, after sustaining major damage in a fire Wednesday, a senior defense official told reporters Thursday.

The Department of Defense cannot confirm what caused the fire on RTS Moskva (121), the defense official said. Moskva was about 60-65 nautical miles south of Odesa when the fire started.

“It very well could have been from an external source like like a missile,” the defense official said.

Russia's Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it has sunk.

[GannonFan]

Is this the same boat? Said crew has abandoned, but moving east. Believe fire is still going on below deck.

https://news.usni.org/2022/04/13/russia ... doned-ship

Russia's Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it has sunk.

That's not enough for SG. We need to get James Cameron to make a movie out of the sub footage showing it at the bottom of the Black Sea. Maybe have a catchy song go along with it too.

[Skjellyfetti]

Well, I'm sure he still buys the Russian version that it sank due to an accident.

I think it was probably sink by a Neptune, but the Russian version that the ship that was told to go fuck itself... fucked itself is more poetic.

[SeattleGriz]

Well, I'm sure he still buys the Russian version that it sank due to an accident.

I think it was probably sink by a Neptune, but the Russian version that the ship that was told to go fuck itself... fucked itself is more poetic.

Just read it sunk while being towed.

[SeattleGriz]

Russia's Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it has sunk.

That's not enough for SG. We need to get James Cameron to make a movie out of the sub footage showing it at the bottom of the Black Sea. Maybe have a catchy song go along with it too.

That would be nice. IMAX please. But in regard to me not believing everything the media says, it also means I don't believe two wrongs make a right. If Ukrainians killed citizens, they need to be held accountable as well. It all doesn't get to be swept under the Putin rug.

[SDHornet]

Comparing any of this to what the POTUS' crackhead son does is quite the reach.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that there has been some purging of Twitter accounts spreading "Russian disinformation" that runs counter to the "Ukraine is winning" narrative. Some anon, some blue checks but I'm sure it's just a coincidence and has nothing to do with the regime trying to control the narrative.

I'm comparing the sources you chose to trust and those you don't. I find it curious that you'll take the word of XXRiverCat69420 over the CIA. I get why you question them, but your choices are just curious to me.

What if the IC is behind all of those unverified twitter posts you use as sources? Whoa! Mind blown!

That's why I aggregate as much as I can to make the most informed decision I can. What sticks out like a sore thumb are all the "NATO needs to act because of XXX event that occurred". Of course, the problem now is those with a differing narrative are starting to get censored (at least on Twitter). I don't understand why they need to jump to censorship if they are winning.

[SDHornet]

Russia's Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it has sunk.

That's not enough for SG. We need to get James Cameron to make a movie out of the sub footage showing it at the bottom of the Black Sea. Maybe have a catchy song go along with it too.

There was ample reports from both sides that the ship was hit and that there was an abandon ship order. Confirmation of it actually sinking took a little more time, but it really doesn't matter. Even if it didn't sink, that ship was going to be out of commission for the duration of the war, if not longer.

[SeattleGriz]

That's not enough for SG. We need to get James Cameron to make a movie out of the sub footage showing it at the bottom of the Black Sea. Maybe have a catchy song go along with it too.

There was ample reports from both sides that the ship was hit and that there was an abandon ship order. Confirmation of it actually sinking took a little more time, but it really doesn't matter. Even if it didn't sink, that ship was going to be out of commission for the duration of the war, if not longer.

Word on Bellingcat is that Zelensky ordered the Neptune to be launched right after this photo op. "Fire the Neptune!"

[Skjellyfetti]

Zelensky's photos and videos have been great for boosting morale and for winning hearts and minds abroad.

Wartime photo ops have been used since the invention of photography. Sorry your boy Putin's photo ops sitting at one end of a 25 yard conference table havent gone over as well.

[houndawg]

Russia's Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it has sunk.

That's not enough for SG. We need to get James Cameron to make a movie out of the sub footage showing it at the bottom of the Black Sea. Maybe have a catchy song go along with it too.

Double-reverse false flag obviously

[houndawg]

There was ample reports from both sides that the ship was hit and that there was an abandon ship order. Confirmation of it actually sinking took a little more time, but it really doesn't matter. Even if it didn't sink, that ship was going to be out of commission for the duration of the war, if not longer.

Word on Bellingcat is that Zelensky ordered the Neptune to be launched right after this photo op. "Fire the Neptune!"

[Ibanez]

I'm comparing the sources you chose to trust and those you don't. I find it curious that you'll take the word of XXRiverCat69420 over the CIA. I get why you question them, but your choices are just curious to me.

What if the IC is behind all of those unverified twitter posts you use as sources? Whoa! Mind blown!

That's why I aggregate as much as I can to make the most informed decision I can. What sticks out like a sore thumb are all the "NATO needs to act because of XXX event that occurred". Of course, the problem now is those with a differing narrative are starting to get censored (at least on Twitter). I don't understand why they need to jump to censorship if they are winning.

The "NATO must attack" people don't understand what NATO is about...or what an attack from one NATO country would mean.

This is something I must not be seeing. I'm on twitter and there's no shortage of Republicans, Democrats, journalists, conspiracy theorists, socialists, anarchists, morons, geniuses, etc... all speaking their minds. Same for Facebook. I don't doubt that there are people being censored for wild, dangerous even stupid comments - it seems not even Truth social is immune to that - but is it really endemic? I've got a friend that posts Trump conspiracy shit often - he's still on and hasn't been banned or suspended to my knowledge.

[Ibanez]

Are missile cruisers typically flagships? Also - for all of Putin's bragging about the Russian military in the past 10 years or so - how does either; 1) a Ukrainian missile make it through radar and defenses and/or: 2) how incompetent or ill trained is their Navy?

1 is an easy answer - the Moskva is over 40 years old. It's Soviet-era tech and I highly doubt it's been updated to be on par with Aegis systems and modern munitions.

[AZGrizFan]

Are missile cruisers typically flagships? Also - for all of Putin's bragging about the Russian military in the past 10 years or so - how does either; 1) a Ukrainian missile make it through radar and defenses and/or: 2) how incompetent or ill trained is their Navy?

1 is an easy answer - the Moskva is over 40 years old. It's Soviet-era tech and I highly doubt it's been updated to be on par with Aegis systems and modern munitions.

I was on a missile cruiser and it had flag quarters in addition to the Captain’s quarters. Wasn’t being used as a flagship at the time, but it did have flag quarters so it was at one point.

[SeattleGriz]

Are missile cruisers typically flagships? Also - for all of Putin's bragging about the Russian military in the past 10 years or so - how does either; 1) a Ukrainian missile make it through radar and defenses and/or: 2) how incompetent or ill trained is their Navy?

1 is an easy answer - the Moskva is over 40 years old. It's Soviet-era tech and I highly doubt it's been updated to be on par with Aegis systems and modern munitions.

This doesn't answer your question, but I've often wondered if our military was in pretty good shape due to the troops rotating through the middle east and the recent wars.

Wonder if Russia is simply lacking real world experience and it's showing. You might be on spot with ill trained.

[AZGrizFan]

Are missile cruisers typically flagships? Also - for all of Putin's bragging about the Russian military in the past 10 years or so - how does either; 1) a Ukrainian missile make it through radar and defenses and/or: 2) how incompetent or ill trained is their Navy?

1 is an easy answer - the Moskva is over 40 years old. It's Soviet-era tech and I highly doubt it's been updated to be on par with Aegis systems and modern munitions.

This doesn't answer your question, but I've often wondered if our military was in pretty good shape due to the troops rotating through the middle east and the recent wars.

Wonder if Russia is simply lacking real world experience and it's showing. You might be on spot with ill trained.

The Soviet (and now Russian) Navy has always been a paper tiger. They used to have dozens and dozens of ships on their rolls that NEVER left the pier—many didn’t even have functioning propulsion systems. They paint literally everything that’s not tied down, so much of their sound-dampening equipment is ineffectual and you can hear them coming from miles away underwater. Their defense systems often don’t perform up to our “par”, or perform at all (as it appears in this case), and like their army their boats are filled with conscripts.

They have LOTS of metal on the water….not so much firepower. Just like their Army, apparently.

[houndawg]

Are missile cruisers typically flagships? Also - for all of Putin's bragging about the Russian military in the past 10 years or so - how does either; 1) a Ukrainian missile make it through radar and defenses and/or: 2) how incompetent or ill trained is their Navy?

1 is an easy answer - the Moskva is over 40 years old. It's Soviet-era tech and I highly doubt it's been updated to be on par with Aegis systems and modern munitions.

I was on a missile cruiser and it had flag quarters in addition to the Captain’s quarters. Wasn’t being used as a flagship at the time, but it did have flag quarters so it was at one point.

Plus its in a small pond

[BDKJMU]

A little late..
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... eral-lands