The Ukraine Crisis
- Winterborn
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Ten billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
That’s pretty much it. This is one moment in history that supports having a massive military budget and ability to send aid. Even if it is 10% of our annual budget. Freedom ain’t free.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 4:30 amTen billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 5:14 amThat’s pretty much it. This is one moment in history that supports having a massive military budget and ability to send aid. Even if it is 10% of our annual budget. Freedom ain’t free.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 4:30 am
Ten billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I know, but there are better times to complain about military spending.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 6:43 amI guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
If not now, when?kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 6:45 amI know, but there are better times to complain about military spending.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 6:43 am
I guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).
There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:00 amIf not now, when?
There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.
Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Both sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:17 amIt should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:00 am
If not now, when?
There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.
Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.
![]()
I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.

“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
We agree.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:02 amBoth sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:17 am
It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.
Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.
![]()
I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.![]()
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Stop the presses and update the cover page.kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:03 amWe agree.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:02 am
Both sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.
I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.![]()



“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I think Afghanistan opened a lot of eyes to how this game works. That's why I think you are hearing more people ask, "what are we getting for this money?". Agreed that not much was said in the past.kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:17 amIt should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:00 am
If not now, when?
There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.
Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.
![]()
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?
IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.
IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Way to buckle down and put your money where your mouth is Europe.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
And then we fucked up the exit…Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 10:59 am Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?
IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Afghanistan was a lot of money, time and bodies invested to simply pack up, leave the Taliban a large amount of weaponry with not much to show for our efforts.Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 10:59 am Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?
IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.
Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.
Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I thought sweeet black tar heroin was going to pay for the war? We never think these things through....SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:32 pmAfghanistan was a lot of money, time and bodies invested to simply pack up, leave the Taliban a large amount of weaponry with not much to show for our efforts.Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 10:59 am Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?
IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
For nothing? Hey, I surely get the idea that Afghanistan wasn't a roaring success, and our incredibly bungled and rapid exit from there didn't help that, but Afghanistan prior to 9/11 compared to Afghanistan now circa 2022 is still different. It's no longer the safe haven for the largest terrorist organization on the planet (at the time Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden). The Taliban today, while still horribly repressive of women in particular, at least appear to be somewhat chastened with regards to harboring and sheltering terrorists of that ilk. Again, was it worth the loss of lives and the tremendous cost? Probably not, but it was surely for something (however you categorize it), not nothing.Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:36 pm Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.
Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I don't think the Taliban have any qualms about harboring another terrorist organization. Haqqani Network? lol
I think you just see me post and really want to disagree so you have to find some small thing to pick a nit with.
"Well, ackchyually..."
I think you just see me post and really want to disagree so you have to find some small thing to pick a nit with.
"Well, ackchyually..."
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Well, don't want me to nitpick, don't say things that don't ring true. To say that "nothing" was accomplished in Afghanistan just rings of hyperbole. Don't do that and I won't reply. Easy peasy.Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 1:03 pm I don't think the Taliban have any qualms about harboring another terrorist organization. Haqqani Network? lol
I think you just see me post and really want to disagree so you have to find some small thing to pick a nit with.
"Well, ackchyually..."

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
Well, actchually they "at least appear to be somewhat chastened." 

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis
I'd agree with a couple of exceptions:Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:36 pm Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.
Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.
- I don't believe the USSR was threatening to use nukes if things didn't go their way in Afghanistan.
- The Russian incursion into Afghanistan didn't cause a bunch of nearby, neutral states to seriously consider joining NATO.
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