2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

JohnStOnge wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:34 pm Now more on the inflation rate thing. I went ahead and projected what would happen with the year over year inflation rate as it is reported if the inflation rate during October 2022 through June 2023 works out to the resulting in the 2% annual rate the Fed targets. What you will see is that, in June 2023, the year over year rate that is widely reported would fall below 2%.

it looks likely that the Republicans will take over the House and very possibly the Senate as well. If that happens and an inflation scenario similar to the one I depict plays out, i have no doubt that people in general will perceive the decline as associated with the Republicans taking power. But it wouldn't be. The change would clearly have occurred between June and July, 2022; well before the Republicans will have taken over the Congress.

Another example of why I lament the fact that people vote based on what they perceive as happening with the economy at the time. One thing I'll always remember, because I was for George H. W. Bush at the time, is that people thought Bill Clinton ended a recession. But the recession actually ended in March 1991. That was almost 2 years before Clinton took office in January, 1993. I also don't think Bush was the reason for the recession to begin with. But that's how it goes. People perceive a direct cause and effect relationship between who is in power and what the economy is doing even though there isn't one. It is what it is.

Here's the table:

Image

You can see that, if something like that scenario plays out, unacceptable inflation would have stopped between June and July, 2022. But that won't really show up in the year over year numbers that people see in a way that most people will notice until around early 2023 when the Republicans will presumably be taking power in at least the House.

Not that it's QUITE a done deal yet. As of now, according to 538, it's at 81% confidence that the Republicans will win the House. So they are favored by more than Clinton was over Trump on election eve 2016 but not by as much as Biden was over Trump on election even 2020.
Every time you talk about inflation or the economy I get less and less convinced that you know anything about either. First of all, the fact that we had rampant inflation at all is a big issue. Yes, the rate of inflation has stopped, and that's a good thing. But what's also stopped is the Biden administration passing multi-trillion dollar spending bills under the banner of "COVID relief" and the Fed has made it a point to actually address inflation after too many years of easy money policy. Heck, the fact that we can tie rising inflation to right when those things happened (and again, I'm including Trump's COVID relief bill in December 2020 that was also highly unnecessary and also harmful to inflation - just on a lower scale than Biden's boondoggle) and then we can see the lessening of the rate of inflation the further we get away from those policy blunders the more the case is made that Biden and the Fed blew it big time when it comes to letting inflation get away from us.

Second, yes, the rate of inflation has stalled, but we're not anywhere out of the woods yet. We're still seeing the ripple effect of letting the biggest economy in the world (the US) blow it on inflation as the echoes of that are still bouncing back and in forth in the rest of the world. Just like how COVID would hit one part of the world and then take a couple of months to make its way to other parts initially not impacted, we see the same things with rampant inflation. The rate may have stalled here, but other, smaller economies highly impacted by what happens in the US are still dealing with it. And how they deal with it will have potential repercussions on us.

Furthermore, even here in the US, we're not out of the woods yet. Real income of pretty much everyone in the US is still far behind what it should be as wages still lag inflation. That doesn't get fixed right away (if it did, it would create even more inflationary pressure). So we have a couple of years, at least, of people's real spending power being negatively impacted by the bad economic decisions of Biden and the Fed. And lastly, we still have the issue of making sure inflation doesn't continue, and the way that's accomplished is by limiting the money supply - that's why the Fed is jacking up rates and that's why the government can't pump out new spending because they already did that to cause inflation to get away from us.

The Fed will keep jacking up rates for another 6 months - maybe not the 75 point jumps we've seen recently, but we'll see 50 point jumps probably well near the end of 2023. That means sustained high interest rates for another 1-3 years, and the pain that comes along with that. So yes, we should be happy that inflation isn't still growing at crazy amounts month to month, but it still takes quite a while to fix the tracks and to get the train back on those tracks so we still have a fair amount of work to do. On the bright side, a GOP held Congress, in at least one house, and a Dem in the White House means we won't see the blow-out spending again that got us into this mess in the first place.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

1st post debate poll has Oz +3 over Uncle Fester. 1st poll ever with Oz ahead.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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kalm wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:04 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:38 am

You are thinking of Johnny Walker.
You are thinking of Scotland.
No. I just have booze on the brain. 8-)

Speaking of which, JW Blue prices have got out of hand. I remember not that long ago when I could get a bottle for $160/170. Now it is $220/230 (highest I saw in Michigan was $250).
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:57 am
Every time you talk about inflation or the economy I get less and less convinced that you know anything about either. First of all, the fact that we had rampant inflation at all is a big issue. Yes, the rate of inflation has stopped, and that's a good thing. But what's also stopped is the Biden administration passing multi-trillion dollar spending bills under the banner of "COVID relief" and the Fed has made it a point to actually address inflation after too many years of easy money policy. Heck, the fact that we can tie rising inflation to right when those things happened (and again, I'm including Trump's COVID relief bill in December 2020 that was also highly unnecessary and also harmful to inflation - just on a lower scale than Biden's boondoggle) and then we can see the lessening of the rate of inflation the further we get away from those policy blunders the more the case is made that Biden and the Fed blew it big time when it comes to letting inflation get away from us.

Second, yes, the rate of inflation has stalled, but we're not anywhere out of the woods yet. We're still seeing the ripple effect of letting the biggest economy in the world (the US) blow it on inflation as the echoes of that are still bouncing back and in forth in the rest of the world. Just like how COVID would hit one part of the world and then take a couple of months to make its way to other parts initially not impacted, we see the same things with rampant inflation. The rate may have stalled here, but other, smaller economies highly impacted by what happens in the US are still dealing with it. And how they deal with it will have potential repercussions on us.

Furthermore, even here in the US, we're not out of the woods yet. Real income of pretty much everyone in the US is still far behind what it should be as wages still lag inflation. That doesn't get fixed right away (if it did, it would create even more inflationary pressure). So we have a couple of years, at least, of people's real spending power being negatively impacted by the bad economic decisions of Biden and the Fed. And lastly, we still have the issue of making sure inflation doesn't continue, and the way that's accomplished is by limiting the money supply - that's why the Fed is jacking up rates and that's why the government can't pump out new spending because they already did that to cause inflation to get away from us.

The Fed will keep jacking up rates for another 6 months - maybe not the 75 point jumps we've seen recently, but we'll see 50 point jumps probably well near the end of 2023. That means sustained high interest rates for another 1-3 years, and the pain that comes along with that. So yes, we should be happy that inflation isn't still growing at crazy amounts month to month, but it still takes quite a while to fix the tracks and to get the train back on those tracks so we still have a fair amount of work to do. On the bright side, a GOP held Congress, in at least one house, and a Dem in the White House means we won't see the blow-out spending again that got us into this mess in the first place.
Well said.

There are a bunch of factors that are at play and exchange priority at any given time to other factors. The economy is like a heavily loaded ship sailing with only half sail and a quarter of the crew, running up along the coast with a swirling wind. The Pilot (Fed) can only guide with a certain percentage of certainty based on experience and a bit of luck.

We have already seen the Fed give a bit of a nod to politics in delaying the interest rate hikes and it remains to be seen if they will stay the course or bend. The talk of a "soft" landing is pure PR at this point and the only hope is that we can limit the duration and depth of the recession to something that we can come out of in reasonable shape.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:48 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:56 pm Todd Rundgren is just a musician. Also he wasn't quite right when he said Liz Cheney isn't in the Republican Party. But I think he nailed the basic situation when I saw him interviewed this morning. Here's an excerpt:



It's true. Liz Cheney tells the truth, displays integrity, and seeks to hold people who SHOULD be held accountable accountable. And for displaying integrity she is a pariah in the Republican Party. It is just SO corrupt I know a lot of people feel the need to act like there is some symmetry whereby both major Parties are bad. And to a certain extent they both have their problems. But there is no symmetry right now. In today's context the Republican Party is WAY worse.
JSO, you're a lot like trump. You believe that if you say something, it makes it true.

The Republican Party is way worse on your part, the election was stolen among other things on trump's part. :coffee:
The difference is that there is obvious evidence that the Republican Party is worse while there is no evidence that the election was stolen.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:11 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:48 pm

JSO, you're a lot like trump. You believe that if you say something, it makes it true.

The Republican Party is way worse on your part, the election was stolen among other things on trump's part. :coffee:
The difference is that there is obvious evidence that the Republican Party is worse while there is no evidence that the election was stolen.
2016 (kettle) meet 2020 (pot)

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Now I am seeing Democrats question the polls. It's a good time to review something I did in 2021. I looked at the Real Clear Politics poll averages on election eve for all the national (House and President) elections 2002 through 2020. I also looked at State by State polls for the 2012, 2016, and 2020 Presidential Elections.

In the national polls, the Party/Candidate that led in the Real Clear Politics average of polls on election even won the majority of the popular vote in 13 of 15 cases. That's "only: 87% of the time. But the two exceptions were when things were very close in the polls. In 2012 the polling average had Republicans winning the overall popular vote in House races by 0.2% and the Democrats won by 1.2%. In 2016 the polling average had the Democrats winning the overall popular vote in House races by 0.6% and the Republicans won it by 1.1%.

In State by State polls in Presidential Elections during 2012 - 2020, the candidate leading in the polls on election even won the State 95% of the time. That includes 94% of the time in 2016 when people think the polls were REALLY off.

No. The polls are the best information we have on this sort of thing and they are "right" a WHOLE lot more often than they are "wrong." And I have "right" and "wrong" in quotes because polling really needs to be taken in the context of the recognized sources of error that tell you ahead of time that you should not expect the person or Party who leads in the point estimate of the poll to win every time.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:22 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:11 pm

The difference is that there is obvious evidence that the Republican Party is worse while there is no evidence that the election was stolen.
2016 (kettle) meet 2020 (pot)

:roll:
Look, we all saw a sitting President try to use corrupt means to stay in power after he lost an election. We all saw how the rest of the Republican Party responded to that. It's not hard. There is no evidence that the 2020 election was stolen. There is obvious evidence that the Republican Party of today is corrupt.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:34 pm
Winterborn wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:22 pm

2016 (kettle) meet 2020 (pot)

:roll:
Look, we all saw a sitting President try to use corrupt means to stay in power after he lost an election. We all saw how the rest of the Republican Party responded to that. It's not hard. There is no evidence that the 2016 election was stolen. There is obvious evidence that the Democrat Party of today is corrupt.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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BDKJMU wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:36 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:34 pm
Can we talk about the Speaker of the House trying to use corrupt means to remove a sitting President from power after the Speaker's party's candidate lost an election. We all saw how the rest of the Democratic Party and MSM responded to that. It's not hard. There was no significant evidence of Russian collusion. There is obvious evidence that the both parties of today are corrupt.
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FIFY ;)
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Going to habe some SEC ties in the Senate..
-Curremt 1st term Alabama Senator Tommy Tubberville, former head coach at Ole Miss & Auburn.
-Soon to be Alabama Senator Katie Britt, wife of former Bama & NFL OT Wesley Britt, who’s 2 brothers also played for Bama.
-Likely to be Georgia Senator Herschel Walker, former Georgia (won Heisman trophy) & NFL RB.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by houndawg »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:41 pm
kalm wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:04 am

You are thinking of Scotland.
No. I just have booze on the brain. 8-)

Speaking of which, JW Blue prices have got out of hand. I remember not that long ago when I could get a bottle for $160/170. Now it is $220/230 (highest I saw in Michigan was $250).
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:10 am
TMI - I really don't want to know what Fetterman and his mom do together. :D
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:16 pm 1st post debate poll has Oz +3 over Uncle Fester. 1st poll ever with Oz ahead.
PA is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:48 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:16 pm 1st post debate poll has Oz +3 over Uncle Fester. 1st poll ever with Oz ahead.
PA is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome.
:nod: The Fetterman/Oz choice might be worse than trump/Hillary or trump/Biden. Fortunately, the winner will only be 1 of 100 senators rather than POTUS.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:52 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:48 am
PA is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome.
:nod: The Fetterman/Oz choice might be worse than trump/Hillary or trump/Biden. Fortunately, the winner will only be 1 of 100 senators rather than POTUS.
Of the two, I'd say the quack MD pushing snake oil remedies on Oprah fits the Senator template better... :coffee:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:48 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:16 pm 1st post debate poll has Oz +3 over Uncle Fester. 1st poll ever with Oz ahead.
PA is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome.
Instead of some snarky ass response, since you just appeared after a rather long hiatus, I'll just say respectfully disagree, see below post. :D
Last edited by BDKJMU on Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:52 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:48 am
PA is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome.
:nod: The Fetterman/Oz choice might be worse than trump/Hillary or trump/Biden. Fortunately, the winner will only be 1 of 100 senators rather than POTUS.
Outside of being a carpetbagger, not a whole lot wrong with Oz. I think the conks end up with 53 seats, but if it is only 51, and Oz is one of them, the donks not having control of the Senate will be huge due to fed nominees, esp judicial, esp a potential SCOTUS nominee. And conks having control of Senate hearings will be nice for a change. :nod:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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houndawg wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:55 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:52 am
:nod: The Fetterman/Oz choice might be worse than trump/Hillary or trump/Biden. Fortunately, the winner will only be 1 of 100 senators rather than POTUS.
Of the two, I'd say the quack MD pushing snake oil remedies on Oprah fits the Senator template better... :coffee:
You could be right. Fetterman seems to be a better match for the Democratic presidential candidate profile.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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kalm wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:10 am
And Katie Hobbs failed to show up for her debates vs Kari Lake...

And Uncle Fester refused to do a 2nd debate vs Oz (we can see why :lol: )
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

houndawg wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:55 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:52 am

:nod: The Fetterman/Oz choice might be worse than trump/Hillary or trump/Biden. Fortunately, the winner will only be 1 of 100 senators rather than POTUS.
Of the two, I'd say the quack MD pushing snake oil remedies on Oprah
You’re confused by referring to Fauci..
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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…the liber…the liberty of stachu…your tired huddered masses…

Christ, I‘m not even laughing anymore..
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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