Case Study 1A on why healthcare premiums are so high.travelinman67 wrote:Love the vid...
...I've done a few like those...
...last one was 'bout three weeks ago...
...was demo'ing some old residential fencing...bunch of small trees and brush had grown around both sides...
...of course, being an OSHA believer, I was wearing shorts and flip-flops...
...operating my 18" bar Husky...
...was being careful to clear the old boards out of the work area as I demo'd so I wouldn't step on any nails...
...and just as I was bending under some brush to get at the trunk of a small tree...with the chainsaw running...
I stepped back on a small piece of board that was under some leaves...right onto a 16d galv....directly up into my heel about an inch...but since I was leaning backward, I would either fall back over a small brick retaining wall, holding the chainsaw above me, or just drop it, take my chances and protect my noggin...
...I dropped it on my leg...landed on my back...twisting the nail in my heel as I went down...
...good news was...the saw was idling and the blade had stopped so I only got a small gouge on my leg...
...and I tried to keep off my heel for a few days...
...healed right up.
Just another in a long line of Tman OSHA nightmare stories...
...btw...I went out a week later and finished the job...
...wearing shorts and flip-flops.
Absolutely, and that's the way it should be. They have an obligation to do what they do in secrecy so that those that want to think that we are so morally superior can still feel that way while doing the job of getting things done in the cloak and dagger world. JFC stop videotaping, audio taping, and documenting this shit. We don't have the stomach to make it in the situations we are in.bandl wrote:I have no problem with the use of torture to coerce these fuckers. The only problem I have is that a few agents will be taking the fall for the CIA so that the CIA can save face. And the CIA will continue to use these practices (as they should), but they will just be more secretive about it...you know, like not documenting it, not letting the prisoners interview, etc.
I don't think it is about having sympathy for terrorists. For some people it's about walking the walk and not just talking the talk. America is about higher ideals, respect, democracy, etc. and to some that means you treat your prisoners with a certain level of dignity regardless of how they treat their prisoners. You do this because you believe it is the right thing to do and you want to set an example for others to follow knowing full well that some won't follow it. We shouldn't lose sight of who we are and what we represent in order to protect it.Wildcat Ryan wrote:If it works, and they save American lives, Who cares? Its amazing how some people have more sympathy for the terrorists, than the people the terrorists killed.
I understand what your saying, but why should we care what other countries think about us? I believe the CIA should use any means necessary to keep this country and its people safe. I dont care how bad or "inhumane" some people think they are.UNI88 wrote:I don't think it is about having sympathy for terrorists. For some people it's about walking the walk and not just talking the talk. America is about higher ideals, respect, democracy, etc. and to some that means you treat your prisoners with a certain level of dignity regardless of how they treat their prisoners. You do this because you believe it is the right thing to do and you want to set an example for others to follow knowing full well that some won't follow it. We shouldn't lose sight of who we are and what we represent in order to protect it.Wildcat Ryan wrote:If it works, and they save American lives, Who cares? Its amazing how some people have more sympathy for the terrorists, than the people the terrorists killed.
Personally, I understand the need to do some things off the books and the CIA is the agency best suited for those activities. IMO, those things should not be done on military bases or similar locations. Off the books activities should follow some guidelines that take into account the gravity of the situation (how time sensitive & serious) as well the reliability of various methods.
One reason we should care is the young PFC captured 30 June and now in the hands of the Taliban.Wildcat Ryan wrote:I understand what your saying, but why should we care what other countries think about us? I believe the CIA should use any means necessary to keep this country and its people safe. I dont care how bad or "inhumane" some people think they are.UNI88 wrote:
I don't think it is about having sympathy for terrorists. For some people it's about walking the walk and not just talking the talk. America is about higher ideals, respect, democracy, etc. and to some that means you treat your prisoners with a certain level of dignity regardless of how they treat their prisoners. You do this because you believe it is the right thing to do and you want to set an example for others to follow knowing full well that some won't follow it. We shouldn't lose sight of who we are and what we represent in order to protect it.
Personally, I understand the need to do some things off the books and the CIA is the agency best suited for those activities. IMO, those things should not be done on military bases or similar locations. Off the books activities should follow some guidelines that take into account the gravity of the situation (how time sensitive & serious) as well the reliability of various methods.
I suspect you will be among the first to point out the barbarity of our opponents if that soldier's body turns up bearing signs of torture. It's pretty clear that torture doesn't provide useful intelligence and that most anybody will cop to shooting Kennedy and Lincoln if they think that is what you want to hear.. And the flip side of that is that he could sing like a canary and tell them EVERYTHING he knows, and they'll still torture him and behead him and drag his body throuh the streets...I don't think the Taliban or Al Quaeda torture for "information". They torture for SPORT.houndawg wrote:One reason we should care is the young PFC captured 30 June and now in the hands of the Taliban.Wildcat Ryan wrote:
I understand what your saying, but why should we care what other countries think about us? I believe the CIA should use any means necessary to keep this country and its people safe. I dont care how bad or "inhumane" some people think they are.
And what do you call 183 waterboardings? Either we're like them or we're not. If we are like them then it doesn't really matter who wins the so-called "War on Terror".AZGrizFan wrote:And the flip side of that is that he could sing like a canary and tell them EVERYTHING he knows, and they'll still torture him and behead him and drag his body throuh the streets...I don't think the Taliban or Al Quaeda torture for "information". They torture for SPORT.houndawg wrote:
One reason we should care is the young PFC captured 30 June and now in the hands of the Taliban.
houndawg wrote:And what do you call 183 waterboardings? Either we're like them or we're not. If we are like them then it doesn't really matter who wins the so-called "War on Terror".AZGrizFan wrote:
And the flip side of that is that he could sing like a canary and tell them EVERYTHING he knows, and they'll still torture him and behead him and drag his body throuh the streets...I don't think the Taliban or Al Quaeda torture for "information". They torture for SPORT.
I don't see that as any kind of "flip side". Either we're like them or we're not
I agree with your premise and have said so in previous posts, but you are talking about the most vile man alive. All 183 waterboardings were against one man. The SELF described mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Nothing is too foul for him, IMO. If a bullet found it's way into the base of his skull I think I would sleep jus as well tonight as I did last night.houndawg wrote:And what do you call 183 waterboardings? Either we're like them or we're not. If we are like them then it doesn't really matter who wins the so-called "War on Terror".
I don't see that as any kind of "flip side". Either we're like them or we're not
If you don't see the difference between attempting to extract information and torturing for sport, then no amount of explaining is going to help. I'm not arguing that torture is EFFECTIVE....but to assume that it doesn't happen for different reasons is naive.houndawg wrote:And what do you call 183 waterboardings? Either we're like them or we're not. If we are like them then it doesn't really matter who wins the so-called "War on Terror".AZGrizFan wrote:
And the flip side of that is that he could sing like a canary and tell them EVERYTHING he knows, and they'll still torture him and behead him and drag his body throuh the streets...I don't think the Taliban or Al Quaeda torture for "information". They torture for SPORT.
I don't see that as any kind of "flip side". Either we're like them or we're not
We are not like them, Dawg. We do not execute prisoners, we do not mutilate prisoners, we do not throw acid on schoolgirls' faces, we do not destroy priceless religious relics because they are different from our own religion, we do not behead innocent civilians, we do no desecrate the bodies of prisoners (that we do not execute in the first place), etc...houndawg wrote:And what do you call 183 waterboardings? Either we're like them or we're not. If we are like them then it doesn't really matter who wins the so-called "War on Terror".AZGrizFan wrote:
And the flip side of that is that he could sing like a canary and tell them EVERYTHING he knows, and they'll still torture him and behead him and drag his body throuh the streets...I don't think the Taliban or Al Quaeda torture for "information". They torture for SPORT.
I don't see that as any kind of "flip side". Either we're like them or we're not
