The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

You actually went to discussmormom? To try and refute a military capability that you didn't even refute?

How about some information on the capability of the Russians being able to "blind" US defense. Did this truly happen or is there another explanation.

I don't know - your crowd posted it. Do you believe it?

My guess is they can't judging by the pitiful performance of their military from top to bottom and the fact that they are barely more than a third-world country. If we do get involved we'll have the Ukraine airspace cleaned out in about 48 hrs. Putin is a dead man walking.

Pro tip: ...if they want to blind somebody's defense they should probably try to blind Ukraine's. After they can do that we'll see what happens....

They don't need to blind Ukrainian defenses. The defenses are off because they can then be located and attacked. This is why the US is helping from outside Ukrainian airspace. US gives Ukraine a heads up that missiles are incoming. Ukraine then turns their air defense to "on" and tries to shoot down the incoming. After the salvo is complete, Ukraine turns their air defense off to further protect.

In regards to whether Russia has the capability, I have no idea, but know 25% of the college population is in STEM.

[houndawg]

They have this large group of buildings where they manufacture them. No shit.

They won't get ours until next year probably since we're going to make them custom for Ukraine.

Until then the leopards will do just fine and probably achieve a 10:1 kill ratio against the Russian's excuse for tanks. I think we'll probably wind up selling them some A-10s too. i used to work in a munitions factory that made ammo for them - you should see what they do at the test range to the armor used by Russian tanks. I truly feel nothing but sorrow and pity for any troops that have face either if those systems...

You sure you were in the military? How do you expect these tanks to make it more than a day without support?

sigh... I already answered this for you once - now pay attention when I'm talking, son, I won't always be here to help you through life ...

there will be plenty of support because Ukraine is a big time agricultural nation that abounds in farm families accustomed to maintaining complex ag equipment. By the time the Abrams are ready the diesel-powered Leopards will have already gone through the Russians like corn through a goose.

The Abrams will be nicely pre-positioned near where NATOs new eastern border will be.

[BDKJMU]

https://nypost.com/2023/01/26/ukraine-w ... ussia-war/
Well, that answers my earlier question of are they sending older M1s, M1A1s, or the newer M1A2s. Shows you how stupid our govt is. Instead of having to create new contracts & hire the companies to build the Ukranians brand new M1A2s, courtesy of the US taxpayer, and have them delivered not until late 2023 or 2024, just get a bunch of the mothballed M1s & M1A1s that are sitting by the HUNDREDS mothballed in the desert.

It would cost a fraction of the cost to get them operational and fraction of the time to get to Ukraine vs building new M1A2s from scratch. But oh no, we can’t give the Ukranians those older models. They need the newest verison, and the military industrial complex needs to be paid billions to make them. Meanwhile, the hundreds stores in the desert will continue to sit unused..

We live in a free-market society, Karen - why shouldn't we maximize profits?

That's why wars are fought, right?

Well, if the left really cared and were competent, they would bring a few doz old M1s out of mothballs and send them over to Ukraine as a stopgap until the 31 specially built A2s could be contracted out, built, and shipped over later this year or next year.

[BDKJMU]

There's an export version without some tech like depleted uranium armor that we don't want other countries to have. Pretty sure those mothballed once can't be exported.

And, it seems pretty likely the Abrams announcement was just part of the negotiations for Germany to free up the Leopard 2s. Those are a bigger deal.

Well the Krauts always had better tanks than the Russians. Just not enough of them (Tigers and Panthers) on the battlefield.

[houndawg]

We live in a free-market society, Karen - why shouldn't we maximize profits?

That's why wars are fought, right?

Well, if the left really cared and were competent, they would bring a few doz old M1s out of mothballs and send them over to Ukraine as a stopgap until the 31 specially built A2s could be contracted out, built, and shipped over later this year or next year.

send them the old M60s they're probably still a match for the T72s

[BDKJMU]

Well, if the left really cared and were competent, they would bring a few doz old M1s out of mothballs and send them over to Ukraine as a stopgap until the 31 specially built A2s could be contracted out, built, and shipped over later this year or next year.

send them the old M60s they're probably still a match for the T72s

Do they still have tanks mothballed from a half century ago when you were in the army?

[houndawg]

send them the old M60s they're probably still a match for the T72s

Do they still have tanks mothballed from a half century ago when you were in the army?

whoooooosh goes the point...

[houndawg]

We live in a free-market society, Karen - why shouldn't we maximize profits?

That's why wars are fought, right?

Well, if the left really cared and were competent, they would bring a few doz old M1s out of mothballs and send them over to Ukraine as a stopgap until the 31 specially built A2s could be contracted out, built, and shipped over later this year or next year.

You aren't thinking forward, or listening , when I explain simple shit to you.

When this is over and Putin is dead and gone, NATO will have a new border right at the old border between Russia and Ukraine, and the best armor in the world nicely positioned keep that border in its historical position. After years of cleanup the Ukrainians will once again have a lifestyle that is the envy of their Russian neighbors. Not to mention Crimea

[SeattleGriz]

Well, if the left really cared and were competent, they would bring a few doz old M1s out of mothballs and send them over to Ukraine as a stopgap until the 31 specially built A2s could be contracted out, built, and shipped over later this year or next year.

You aren't thinking forward, or listening , when I explain simple shit to you.

When this is over and Putin is dead and gone, NATO will have a new border right at the old border between Russia and Ukraine, and the best armor in the world nicely positioned keep that border in its historical position. After years of cleanup the Ukrainians will once again have a lifestyle that is the envy of their Russian neighbors. Not to mention Crimea

I like it. It's a bold statement. I think you're wrong, but at least you're putting it out there.

[houndawg]

You aren't thinking forward, or listening , when I explain simple shit to you.

When this is over and Putin is dead and gone, NATO will have a new border right at the old border between Russia and Ukraine, and the best armor in the world nicely positioned keep that border in its historical position. After years of cleanup the Ukrainians will once again have a lifestyle that is the envy of their Russian neighbors. Not to mention Crimea

I like it. It's a bold statement. I think you're wrong, but at least you're putting it out there.

You thought I was wrong about the Dobbs decision too.

[SeattleGriz]

I like it. It's a bold statement. I think you're wrong, but at least you're putting it out there.

You thought I was wrong about the Dobbs decision too.

So's your mom.

[houndawg]

You thought I was wrong about the Dobbs decision too.

So's your mom.

snippy snippy.....

[Skjellyfetti]

[SeattleGriz]

Changing of the narrative. Now Ukraine is in trouble.

[SeattleGriz]

If Ukraine is doing so well, why are they always asking for new equipment? Russia has now taken out the equivalent of 3 Ukrainian armies. The loss is Ukrainian troops is also insane.

[BDKJMU]

The US should be telling Ukraine sorry, we can’t send any more weaponry & munitions, we have to stock up for our upcoming war with China..

[houndawg]

I don't know - your crowd posted it. Do you believe it?

My guess is they can't judging by the pitiful performance of their military from top to bottom and the fact that they are barely more than a third-world country. If we do get involved we'll have the Ukraine airspace cleaned out in about 48 hrs. Putin is a dead man walking.

Pro tip: ...if they want to blind somebody's defense they should probably try to blind Ukraine's. After they can do that we'll see what happens....

They don't need to blind Ukrainian defenses. The defenses are off because they can then be located and attacked. This is why the US is helping from outside Ukrainian airspace. US gives Ukraine a heads up that missiles are incoming. Ukraine then turns their air defense to "on" and tries to shoot down the incoming. After the salvo is complete, Ukraine turns their air defense off to further protect.

In regards to whether Russia has the capability, I have no idea, but know 25% of the college population is in STEM.

Most of them have/are/will be left/leaving Russia just as fast as they can unass the AO

[houndawg]

If Ukraine is doing so well, why are they always asking for new equipment? Russia has now taken out the equivalent of 3 Ukrainian armies. The loss is Ukrainian troops is also insane.

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

[SeattleGriz]

If Ukraine is doing so well, why are they always asking for new equipment? Russia has now taken out the equivalent of 3 Ukrainian armies. The loss is Ukrainian troops is also insane.

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

[kalm]

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

None of the sources I read say UKR is winning beyond the fact they haven’t been over-run by one of the world, strongest militaries. “Stalemate” is a term most often used.

Continuing to send arms is a no-brainer for very obvious reasons.

[UNI88]

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

Ukraine isn't winning. This is a no-win situation for them. They've chosen to fight to the death over being put under the Russian fascist boot.

Russia has already lost. This war was supposed to be over 10+ months ago. Anything less than a quick victory is a loss for Russia. The longer it drags out the worse it is for Russia's position in the world order.

[SeattleGriz]

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

Ukraine isn't winning. This is a no-win situation for them. They've chosen to fight to the death over being put under the Russian fascist boot.

Russia has already lost. This war was supposed to be over 10+ months ago. Anything less than a quick victory is a loss for Russia. The longer it drags out the worse it is for Russia's position in the world order.

Your sources this war was supposed to be over? Love to see your Intel.

In regards to "the worse it is for Russia" doesn't comport with the 75% of the world outside of US and W Europe.

[SeattleGriz]

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

None of the sources I read say UKR is winning beyond the fact they haven’t been over-run by one of the world, strongest militaries. “Stalemate” is a term most often used.

Continuing to send arms is a no-brainer for very obvious reasons.

No, it's not obvious. If you want to keep playing the false choice game, I get to say you are obviously the problem. You keep promoting a war in which you have no skin in the game and simply keep sending Ukrainians to their death.

[SeattleGriz]

[SeattleGriz]

Reading Russia keeps probing Ukrainian defenses, only to back away once Ukraine gets settled and then bombing the shit out of the newly arrived troops.