The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

Reading Russia keeps probing Ukrainian defenses, only to back away once Ukraine gets settled and then bombing the shit out of the newly arrived troops.

[kalm]

None of the sources I read say UKR is winning beyond the fact they haven’t been over-run by one of the world, strongest militaries. “Stalemate” is a term most often used.

Continuing to send arms is a no-brainer for very obvious reasons.

No, it's not obvious. If you want to keep playing the false choice game, I get to say you are obviously the problem. You keep promoting a war in which you have no skin in the game and simply keep sending Ukrainians to their death.

You get to say whatever you’d like.

I didn’t invade a sovereign nation. Neither did Finland and the rest of Europe. I’m glad their security against further RUS hostility is proving to be strong. Ukrainians are willfully fighting for their existence regardless of what you or I think.

There has been no reunification of UKR and RUS

No denazification of UKR.

There has been NATO expansion.

There is one person responsible. There are many sadly supporting his endeavors and are apparently ok with additional UKR and RUS deaths. You’re not one of those I hope?

[kalm]

BTW, I’m listening to Al Franken interview Julie Ioffe. Some very good historical takes on Putin’s rise and sentiments as well as the sheer evil of the Wagner Group and its history.

Well worth the listen.

[houndawg]

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

Russians are deserting in droves at the first opportunity, the educated young are fleeing by the hundreds of thousands and prisoners fill the ranks replacing 100,000 dead Russians.

[houndawg]

When you're being invaded by a hostile power there is no choice but to fight to the end. You wouldn't understand

Agreed, I don't understand. I don't understand why the western media keeps up the charade that Ukraine is winning and Russia is on the edge of defeat, unless to drum up support to keep sending old weaponry and more bodies into the grinder.

You're part of a very small, select minority.

Russia invaded with enough supplies for a week, a year later they're still there, bleeding treasure day after day after day with no end in sight. You're probably too young to remember the collapse of the Soviet Union, but it happened very much how Hemingway described bankruptcy - gradually, then suddenly. Putin's done, your crusaders backed the wrong white supremecist.

[UNI88]

Ukraine isn't winning. This is a no-win situation for them. They've chosen to fight to the death over being put under the Russian fascist boot.

Russia has already lost. This war was supposed to be over 10+ months ago. Anything less than a quick victory is a loss for Russia. The longer it drags out the worse it is for Russia's position in the world order.

Your sources this war was supposed to be over? Love to see your Intel.

In regards to "the worse it is for Russia" doesn't comport with the 75% of the world outside of US and W Europe.

Your sources for the “doesn’t comport with the 75% of the world”?

By population, sure. China and India alone make up a huge chunk of that. By number of nations? By popular sentiment? Nations and people fear being dominated by a more powerful neighbor with a bully complex.


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[SeattleGriz]

Your sources this war was supposed to be over? Love to see your Intel.

In regards to "the worse it is for Russia" doesn't comport with the 75% of the world outside of US and W Europe.

Your sources for the “doesn’t comport with the 75% of the world”?

By population, sure. China and India alone make up a huge chunk of that. By number of nations? By popular sentiment? Nations and people fear being dominated by a more powerful neighbor with a bully complex.


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BRICS++

[SeattleGriz]

No, it's not obvious. If you want to keep playing the false choice game, I get to say you are obviously the problem. You keep promoting a war in which you have no skin in the game and simply keep sending Ukrainians to their death.

You get to say whatever you’d like.

I didn’t invade a sovereign nation. Neither did Finland and the rest of Europe. I’m glad their security against further RUS hostility is proving to be strong. Ukrainians are willfully fighting for their existence regardless of what you or I think.

There has been no reunification of UKR and RUS

No denazification of UKR.

There has been NATO expansion.

There is one person responsible. There are many sadly supporting his endeavors and are apparently ok with additional UKR and RUS deaths. You’re not one of those I hope?

You keep putting out these either / or arguments.

Let me help you here, as this started way before Putin back when James Baker is on record promising, "not one inch further" with the deployment of military capabilities.

Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are actually many shades of gray.

[houndawg]

You get to say whatever you’d like.

I didn’t invade a sovereign nation. Neither did Finland and the rest of Europe. I’m glad their security against further RUS hostility is proving to be strong. Ukrainians are willfully fighting for their existence regardless of what you or I think.

There has been no reunification of UKR and RUS

No denazification of UKR.

There has been NATO expansion.

There is one person responsible. There are many sadly supporting his endeavors and are apparently ok with additional UKR and RUS deaths. You’re not one of those I hope?

You keep putting out these either / or arguments.

Let me help you here, as this started way before Putin back when James Baker is on record promising, "not one inch further" with the deployment of military capabilities.

Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are actually many shades of gray.

Either defeat the invading army or live under their rule

I think a lot of you wackadoodle evangelical types are jizzing all over yourselves anticipating the end of days.

[SeattleGriz]

You keep putting out these either / or arguments.

Let me help you here, as this started way before Putin back when James Baker is on record promising, "not one inch further" with the deployment of military capabilities.

Either defeat the invading army or live under their rule

I think a lot of you wackadoodle evangelical types are jizzing all over yourselves anticipating the end of days.

Not sure how pointing out that the Russia Ukraine issue is more than a simple either/or scenario that has anything to do with end of times, but you keep on doing you bro!

[UNI88]

Either defeat the invading army or live under their rule

I think a lot of you wackadoodle evangelical types are jizzing all over yourselves anticipating the end of days.

Not sure how pointing out that the Russia Ukraine issue is more than a simple either/or scenario that has anything to do with end of times, but you keep on doing you bro!

Isn’t it ultimately a simple either/or scenario for Ukraine? Do you really think Putin will stop with any agreement that doesn’t give Russia all of Ukraine? He didn’t stop with Crimea.


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[SeattleGriz]

Not sure how pointing out that the Russia Ukraine issue is more than a simple either/or scenario that has anything to do with end of times, but you keep on doing you bro!

Isn’t it ultimately a simple either/or scenario for Ukraine? Do you really think Putin will stop with any agreement that doesn’t give Russia all of Ukraine? He didn’t stop with Crimea.


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Why was he in Crimea?

[houndawg]

Isn’t it ultimately a simple either/or scenario for Ukraine? Do you really think Putin will stop with any agreement that doesn’t give Russia all of Ukraine? He didn’t stop with Crimea.


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Why was he in Crimea?

Because he needs a warm-water port.

[SeattleGriz]

Why was he in Crimea?

Because he needs a warm-water port.

Ding. Ding. Ding! You finally got something right. Don't forget the people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

[kalm]

Because he needs a warm-water port.

Ding. Ding. Ding! You finally got something right. Don't forget the people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

I think it was Ceaușescu in Romania who won election with something like 97% of the vote in the ‘89 election and was executed during a people’s uprising a month later.

[houndawg]

Because he needs a warm-water port.

Ding. Ding. Ding! You finally got something right. Don't forget the people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

And 99% of Russians voted for Putin..

[UNI88]

Because he needs a warm-water port.

Ding. Ding. Ding! You finally got something right. Don't forget the people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

Invading a country, taking territory and then holding a referendum where inhabitants vote to join your country doesn't legitimize the invasion. International law doesn't work that way.

Putin's invasion of Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine proper in 2022 is a pattern. He isn't going to stop with what he has now. The only way for Ukraine to continue to exist is to fight.

[SeattleGriz]

Ding. Ding. Ding! You finally got something right. Don't forget the people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

Invading a country, taking territory and then holding a referendum where inhabitants vote to join your country doesn't legitimize the invasion. International law doesn't work that way.

Putin's invasion of Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine proper in 2022 is a pattern. He isn't going to stop with what he has now. The only way for Ukraine to continue to exist is to fight.

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

[UNI88]

Invading a country, taking territory and then holding a referendum where inhabitants vote to join your country doesn't legitimize the invasion. International law doesn't work that way.

Putin's invasion of Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine proper in 2022 is a pattern. He isn't going to stop with what he has now. The only way for Ukraine to continue to exist is to fight.

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

[GannonFan]

Invading a country, taking territory and then holding a referendum where inhabitants vote to join your country doesn't legitimize the invasion. International law doesn't work that way.

Putin's invasion of Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine proper in 2022 is a pattern. He isn't going to stop with what he has now. The only way for Ukraine to continue to exist is to fight.

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

Perfect Russian bot response, do you get extra rubles for all the talking points? You forgot to include the made-up NATO encroachment talking point from James Baker back when the USSR collapsed. But you did include false flags of a US coup (never minding the Ukrainians did that), that Crimea wanted out, and that there were Nazi terrorists in Crimea. Heavy lifting today for Putin on your part.

[kalm]

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

Rest assured there’s good people on both sides.

[SeattleGriz]

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

Thought you were all for self determination? People who are treated like shit because they live on the Russian border don't get to live in peace?

[SeattleGriz]

Think you got your facts off a little there. The Republic of Crimea was not happy with the US coup forcing out the pro Russian leader of Ukraine. They had been demonstrating and wanting to leave before Putin got invited in to protect from the Nazi terrorists.

Perfect Russian bot response, do you get extra rubles for all the talking points? You forgot to include the made-up NATO encroachment talking point from James Baker back when the USSR collapsed. But you did include false flags of a US coup (never minding the Ukrainians did that), that Crimea wanted out, and that there were Nazi terrorists in Crimea. Heavy lifting today for Putin on your part.

Are you getting your thoughts from the same media and politicians that told us there were WMDs in Iraq?

Yeah, we totally blew that one, but we 100% on Ukraine.

[GannonFan]

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

Thought you were all for self determination? People who are treated like shit because they live on the Russian border don't get to live in peace?

And yet you're quiet on Russians crossing the border and causing most of those people to be treated like shit and not live in peace. But no worries, most of those people have been casualties in the Russian aggression that you fully support so many of those folks are now resting in peace. I'm sure you consider that to be a success as long as the correct flag is flying over their graves.

[SeattleGriz]

Thought you were all for self determination? People who are treated like shit because they live on the Russian border don't get to live in peace?

And yet you're quiet on Russians crossing the border and causing most of those people to be treated like shit and not live in peace. But no worries, most of those people have been casualties in the Russian aggression that you fully support so many of those folks are now resting in peace. I'm sure you consider that to be a success as long as the correct flag is flying over their graves.

Uh huh. I'm amazed how someone who lives in America is 100% right, but all those that live in Europe and have differing opinions can be so wrong. I'm glad you fully believe everything you are told by our government and media.