The Ukraine Crisis

[GannonFan]

So 13% of our annual budget to neuter Russia. Still a good deal.

Peanuts.

The Pentagon can't account for about $2 trillion, they won't even notice it

Trillion? What are you referring to? This seems like an exaggeration.

[SeattleGriz]

BDKarenJMU post_id=1424729 time=1677201411 user_id=1070]

Because you said

No I can’t read your mind. And since I can’t read your mind I’m going to take you meant what you said, “soldiers who died serving their country” which is totally different from POW.

And the ‘soldiers who died serving their country are losers’ allegation against Trump came from the certainly questionable & disputed Atlantic piece. Its not from anywhere else.

‘Trump said (US) solders who died serving their country are losers.’
‘Trump referred to neo-Nazis as fine people’.
etc..
Like Goebbels said (he wasn’t the first): If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

Sorry, I triggered you. I'll try to be more aware of your fragile sensitivity to criticism of trump.

Back to what I meant to say, if Biden's draft deferments were his bone spurs moment, was Kiev his POWs are losers moment?

Regarding the Goebbels statement, is that why trump keeps spewing his election was stolen lies? So people will believe it? Has he come to believe it himself? My apologies if you find those questions overwhelming and need a safe space. I can see about sending you a fuzzy blanket and teddy bear if it will help.

[/quote]

The ones you used recovering from COVID no doubt.

[houndawg]

Peanuts.

The Pentagon can't account for about $2 trillion, they won't even notice it

Trillion? What are you referring to? This seems like an exaggeration.

I think they failed like four audits of their assets in a row, couldn't account for over half of them.

[houndawg]

Local radio station is in contact with an Iowan that lives in Ukraine and is a farmer there. They usually talk to him 1-2 times a week. Interesting to hear his take on what is going on. In the last one I caught he was talking about how he just finished his harvest and how a lot of farmers are struggling. Many have already had foreclosure on their farms. The Ukraine government is not doing anything to stop these foreclosures. I find this interesting and wonder, who is ending up with these farms? Who will profit on owning/reselling that land at whatever point this is over?

Banks owned by god knows who I'm sure. But when its over I don't see a crowd that's been kicking the shit out of the Russian military sitting still for losing their land to scumbag bankers

[houndawg]

What a strong and fearless leader.

Is that a big red dot for Joe to stand on in the bottom tweet? Holy shit.

Biden stepping on the red dot must have been the que for ‘Start the air raid sirens!”

Just wait till the 2024 campaign. He’ll be saying ‘I was in Kiev while it was under a Russian missile attack, with the air raid sirens going off. Seriously. Not a joke.’

Still doesn't stand up to his predecessor's cred from serving at The Battle of Covfefe.

[UNI88]

Biden stepping on the red dot must have been the que for ‘Start the air raid sirens!”

Just wait till the 2024 campaign. He’ll be saying ‘I was in Kiev while it was under a Russian missile attack, with the air raid sirens going off. Seriously. Not a joke.’

Still doesn't stand up to his predecessor's cred from serving at The Battle of Covfefe.

He was awarded the Bone Spurs of Honor along with a lifetime supply of Viagra for his courage and heroism in that battle.

[BDKJMU]

Because you said

No I can’t read your mind. And since I can’t read your mind I’m going to take you meant what you said, “soldiers who died serving their country” which is totally different from POW.

And the ‘soldiers who died serving their country are losers’ allegation against Trump came from the certainly questionable & disputed Atlantic piece. Its not from anywhere else.

‘Trump said (US) solders who died serving their country are losers.’
‘Trump referred to neo-Nazis as fine people’.
etc..
Like Goebbels said (he wasn’t the first): If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

Sorry, I triggered you. I'll try to be more aware of your fragile sensitivity to criticism of trump.

Back to what I meant to say, if Biden's draft deferments were his bone spurs moment, was Kiev his POWs are losers moment?

Regarding the Goebbels statement, is that why trump keeps spewing his election was stolen lies? So people will believe it? Has he come to believe it himself? My apologies if you find those questions overwhelming and need a safe space. I can see about sending you a fuzzy blanket and teddy bear if it will help.

Not triggered just pointing out I post an original new video of something just Biden said. Its 100% beyond dispute because its on video.
You then have a ‘But Trump’ response with something Trump allegedly said years ago according to questionable anonymous sources from a lib outlet.

How about if I post something Biden actually says on video, and you have a ‘But Trump’ TDS flare up, that you respond with something Trump actually says on video/audio, or at least have it quoted by a named 1st hand source..

[UNI88]

Sorry, I triggered you. I'll try to be more aware of your fragile sensitivity to criticism of trump.

Back to what I meant to say, if Biden's draft deferments were his bone spurs moment, was Kiev his POWs are losers moment?

Regarding the Goebbels statement, is that why trump keeps spewing his election was stolen lies? So people will believe it? Has he come to believe it himself? My apologies if you find those questions overwhelming and need a safe space. I can see about sending you a fuzzy blanket and teddy bear if it will help.

Not triggered just pointing out I post an original new video of something just Biden said. Its 100% beyond dispute because its on video.
You then have a ‘But Trump’ response with something Trump allegedly said years ago according to questionable anonymous sources from a lib outlet.

How about if I post something Biden actually says on video, and you have a ‘But Trump’ TDS flare up, that you respond with something Trump actually says on video/audio, or at least have it quoted by a named 1st hand source..

I've already admitted that I was wrong about military casualties being losers. Was I wrong about trumping saying that POWs were losers? Am I wrong about bone spurs being the reason that trump didn't serve?

Can you answer my questions about Goebbels and why trump keeps spewing his election was stolen lies?

I'm sorry if I'm having a tDS Type 1 flare-up in response to your tDS Type 2 flare-up.

Where should I send the blankie, binkie and teddy bear?

[SDHornet]

Nah, Ukraine isn't my fight. I couldn't care less how many Ukrainians and Russians die in this war.

BTW, looking like the Ukrainian defenses around Bakhmut are starting the fall apart and various folks are reporting some major stacking of bodies in this battle. I guess there is some credence to those who refer to the battle for Bakhmut as the Ukranian Verdun after all.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. I guess the Kherson fiasco didn't teach you anything. Stacks of (Russian) bodies indeed.

And keep telling yourself you haven't chosen a horse in this race. You've been rah rah'ing the Russian propaganda since day one

Ok. So not buying the flag waiving narratives is the same a pushing Russian narratives. Sure thing bud.

BTW, Ukraine is losing even harder now since my post 2 months ago. I get a good laugh from the back and forth narratives of "Bakhmut isn't important" and "Bakhmut must be held at all costs" going on in recent weeks. Make up your mind, flag waivers.

BTW, anyone of you flag waivers answer the Zalensky's call to spill American blood over there? Sign up, grab a gun and head to the front. Nothing stopping you from getting directly involved.

[SDHornet]

Local radio station is in contact with an Iowan that lives in Ukraine and is a farmer there. They usually talk to him 1-2 times a week. Interesting to hear his take on what is going on. In the last one I caught he was talking about how he just finished his harvest and how a lot of farmers are struggling. Many have already had foreclosure on their farms. The Ukraine government is not doing anything to stop these foreclosures. I find this interesting and wonder, who is ending up with these farms? Who will profit on owning/reselling that land at whatever point this is over?

We will. We'll have to claw back that $100B somehow.

[SDHornet]

If you think that's clever, consider why the breadbasket of Ukraine is so full of Russian speakers to begin with.

Spoiler: show

Soviets starved out millions of Ukrainians and resettled Russians to replace them.

The Holodomor.

If only the USSR would have implemented Communism the right way, none of that would have happened.

[SDHornet]

Russia is proving it is NATO that is not ready. Russia's been fighting a war of attrition on Ukraine. The US and the UK are low on inventory. Russia has exposed them with industrial warfare.

Dude, war is the largest revenue stream of the largest economy on the planet and bidniz is only gettin' better, and at the expense of Russia's dwindling market share . Meanwhile Russia has to buy back artillery rounds, at a steep premium, that it sold to North Korea years ago; and has to put them in the hands of convicts with nothing to lose. The collapse of the Soviet Union is history to you but those of us that remember it are getting some strong deja vu right now. Putin and Prigozhin are like Two Trains Runnin'..

Credit to Biden in this war. He cut off Europe's access to cheap Russain oil (now people have to buy it via middle man India and China or buy ours) and has positioned the US MIC as the prime weapons dealers to non-BRICS members all at the expense of a few hundred thousand Ukrainian and Russian casualties and Ukraine that will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age when it's all said and done. We're still in the early stages of German de-insutrialization due to the much higher energy costs which no doubt the American economy will benefit from. Brillant and unscrupulous ploy.

[houndawg]

Dude, war is the largest revenue stream of the largest economy on the planet and bidniz is only gettin' better, and at the expense of Russia's dwindling market share . Meanwhile Russia has to buy back artillery rounds, at a steep premium, that it sold to North Korea years ago; and has to put them in the hands of convicts with nothing to lose. The collapse of the Soviet Union is history to you but those of us that remember it are getting some strong deja vu right now. Putin and Prigozhin are like Two Trains Runnin'..

Credit to Biden in this war. He cut off Europe's access to cheap Russain oil (now people have to buy it via middle man India and China or buy ours) and has positioned the US MIC as the prime weapons dealers to non-BRICS members all at the expense of a few hundred thousand Ukrainian and Russian casualties and Ukraine that will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age when it's all said and done. We're still in the early stages of German de-insutrialization due to the much higher energy costs which no doubt the American economy will benefit from. Brillant and unscrupulous ploy.

....but hardly original - remember after 9/11 when Osama was hiding out in the mountains of Afghanistan and we seized Iraq's oil to teach them Saudi terrorists a lesson? We can still capitalism with the best of them when we put our minds to it.

[UNI88]

Dude, war is the largest revenue stream of the largest economy on the planet and bidniz is only gettin' better, and at the expense of Russia's dwindling market share . Meanwhile Russia has to buy back artillery rounds, at a steep premium, that it sold to North Korea years ago; and has to put them in the hands of convicts with nothing to lose. The collapse of the Soviet Union is history to you but those of us that remember it are getting some strong deja vu right now. Putin and Prigozhin are like Two Trains Runnin'..

Credit to Biden in this war. He cut off Europe's access to cheap Russain oil (now people have to buy it via middle man India and China or buy ours) and has positioned the US MIC as the prime weapons dealers to non-BRICS members all at the expense of a few hundred thousand Ukrainian and Russian casualties and Ukraine that will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age when it's all said and done. We're still in the early stages of German de-insutrialization due to the much higher energy costs which no doubt the American economy will benefit from. Brillant and unscrupulous ploy.

Putin is significantly more responsible for the Ukrainian and Russian casualties and that Ukraine will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age than Biden. The Ukrainians were going to fight back regardless of their weaponry so I'm not sure how arming them is unscrupulous.

Putin and the Russians ignored international law to invade a sovereign nation and when sanctioned cut off gas to European nations. Biden is unscrupulous but he's not in Putin's class

[SeattleGriz]

Credit to Biden in this war. He cut off Europe's access to cheap Russain oil (now people have to buy it via middle man India and China or buy ours) and has positioned the US MIC as the prime weapons dealers to non-BRICS members all at the expense of a few hundred thousand Ukrainian and Russian casualties and Ukraine that will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age when it's all said and done. We're still in the early stages of German de-insutrialization due to the much higher energy costs which no doubt the American economy will benefit from. Brillant and unscrupulous ploy.

Putin is significantly more responsible for the Ukrainian and Russian casualties and that Ukraine will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age than Biden. The Ukrainians were going to fight back regardless of their weaponry so I'm not sure how arming them is unscrupulous.

Putin and the Russians ignored international law to invade a sovereign nation and when sanctioned cut off gas to European nations. Biden is unscrupulous but he's not in Putin's class

That's quite the rewriting of history. Let me help you with the facts.

1) On Feb 21st, The Donetsk News Agency reported unprecedented artillery attacks on the Donbas republic by Ukrainian forces, which is backed up by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine.

The OSCE Special Observer Mission at the ceasefire line in southeast-Ukraine reported of Monday, February 21 2022.

It was the worst day ever.

In Donetsk region, the SMM recorded 703 ceasefire violations, including 332 explosions. In the previous 24 hours, it recorded 579 ceasefire violations in the region.
In Luhansk region, the Mission recorded 1,224 ceasefire violations, including 1,149 explosions. In the previous 24 hours, it recorded 333 ceasefire violations in the region

2) Around 6 o'clock that night the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic had asked the president of Russia Vladimir Putin to recognize the republics as independent states.

On behalf of our people we ask you to recognize the DPR as an independent, democratic, social state under the rule of law," the DPR Head Denis Pushilin said.
"I ask you to recognise the sovereignty and independence of the Lugansk People's Republic", the LPR Head Leonid Pasechnik said.

They both asked to consider the possibility of signing an agreement of friendship and cooperation between Russia and the LPR, including the cooperation in the sphere of defence.

3) Putin then held a Security Council meeting and after that meeting, had a phone call with Scholz and Macron to inform them of the results.

4) During a speech that night, Putin said:

In this regard, I consider it necessary to take a long overdue decision and to immediately recognise the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic. I would like to ask the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation to support this decision and then ratify the Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with both republics. These two documents will be prepared and signed shortly.

5) After the speech Putin signed documents recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics. The treaties of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance included mutual defense agreements.

Russia was asked for help, as Ukraine was not following the agreed upon Minsk II agreements and had intensified their attacks, not to mention had 120,000 troops amassed in the area. Russia pulled the US going to protect Kosovo from Serbia move.

[UNI88]

Putin is significantly more responsible for the Ukrainian and Russian casualties and that Ukraine will have been bombed/shelled back to the stone age than Biden. The Ukrainians were going to fight back regardless of their weaponry so I'm not sure how arming them is unscrupulous.

Putin and the Russians ignored international law to invade a sovereign nation and when sanctioned cut off gas to European nations. Biden is unscrupulous but he's not in Putin's class

That's quite the rewriting of history. Let me help you with the facts.

1) On Feb 21st, The Donetsk News Agency reported unprecedented artillery attacks on the Donbas republic by Ukrainian forces, which is backed up by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine.

The OSCE Special Observer Mission at the ceasefire line in southeast-Ukraine reported of Monday, February 21 2022.

It was the worst day ever.

In Donetsk region, the SMM recorded 703 ceasefire violations, including 332 explosions. In the previous 24 hours, it recorded 579 ceasefire violations in the region.
In Luhansk region, the Mission recorded 1,224 ceasefire violations, including 1,149 explosions. In the previous 24 hours, it recorded 333 ceasefire violations in the region

2) Around 6 o'clock that night the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic had asked the president of Russia Vladimir Putin to recognize the republics as independent states.

On behalf of our people we ask you to recognize the DPR as an independent, democratic, social state under the rule of law," the DPR Head Denis Pushilin said.
"I ask you to recognise the sovereignty and independence of the Lugansk People's Republic", the LPR Head Leonid Pasechnik said.

They both asked to consider the possibility of signing an agreement of friendship and cooperation between Russia and the LPR, including the cooperation in the sphere of defence.

3) Putin then held a Security Council meeting and after that meeting, had a phone call with Scholz and Macron to inform them of the results.

4) During a speech that night, Putin said:

In this regard, I consider it necessary to take a long overdue decision and to immediately recognise the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic. I would like to ask the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation to support this decision and then ratify the Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with both republics. These two documents will be prepared and signed shortly.

5) After the speech Putin signed documents recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics. The treaties of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance included mutual defense agreements.

Donetsk and Luhansk being recognized by Russia does not make them independent republics and doesn't just Russia's invasion.

[SeattleGriz]

That's quite the rewriting of history. Let me help you with the facts.

1) On Feb 21st, The Donetsk News Agency reported unprecedented artillery attacks on the Donbas republic by Ukrainian forces, which is backed up by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine.



2) Around 6 o'clock that night the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic had asked the president of Russia Vladimir Putin to recognize the republics as independent states.



3) Putin then held a Security Council meeting and after that meeting, had a phone call with Scholz and Macron to inform them of the results.

4) During a speech that night, Putin said:



5) After the speech Putin signed documents recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics. The treaties of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance included mutual defense agreements.

Donetsk and Luhansk being recognized by Russia does not make them independent republics and doesn't just Russia's invasion.

I thought you were all about the right to self determination? It only works when you approve?

[UNI88]

Donetsk and Luhansk being recognized by Russia does not make them independent republics and doesn't just Russia's invasion.

I thought you were all about the right to self determination? It only works when you approve?

And if Fedir Melnyk in Luhansk is of Ukrainian descent and declares his house independent of the Luhansk People's Republic and is subsequently arrested by the Russians? Doesn't Ukraine have the same right to defend his human rights and sovereign right to self determination that the Russians have to defend ethnic Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk? Where does it end?

The whole defending Russian human rights or the right of Donetsk and Luhansk to self determination is a canard with more holes than Swiss cheese that is being used to attempt to justify an illegal invasion. There are processes that can be followed both nationally and internationally to do those things and Russia didn't follow them. Their invasion was illegal

[kalm]

Donetsk and Luhansk being recognized by Russia does not make them independent republics and doesn't just Russia's invasion.

I thought you were all about the right to self determination? It only works when you approve?

Sounds like they need a national divorce.

[SeattleGriz]

I thought you were all about the right to self determination? It only works when you approve?

And if Fedir Melnyk in Luhansk is of Ukrainian descent and declares his house independent of the Luhansk People's Republic and is subsequently arrested by the Russians? Doesn't Ukraine have the same right to defend his human rights and sovereign right to self determination that the Russians have to defend ethnic Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk? Where does it end?

The whole defending Russian human rights or the right of Donetsk and Luhansk to self determination is a canard with more holes than Swiss cheese that is being used to attempt to justify an illegal invasion. There are processes that can be followed both nationally and internationally to do those things and Russia didn't follow them. Their invasion was illegal

Did Fedir comply with Article 51 of the UN Charter?

After recognizing the independence of the LPR/DNR Russia all three could claim a right of collective self-defense in analog to Article 51 of the UN Charter.

Don't be upset Putin pulled the same move the US did when they bombed the shit out of Serbia to "protect" Kosovo.

[SeattleGriz]

I thought you were all about the right to self determination? It only works when you approve?

Sounds like they need a national divorce.

It does!

[UNI88]

And if Fedir Melnyk in Luhansk is of Ukrainian descent and declares his house independent of the Luhansk People's Republic and is subsequently arrested by the Russians? Doesn't Ukraine have the same right to defend his human rights and sovereign right to self determination that the Russians have to defend ethnic Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk? Where does it end?

The whole defending Russian human rights or the right of Donetsk and Luhansk to self determination is a canard with more holes than Swiss cheese that is being used to attempt to justify an illegal invasion. There are processes that can be followed both nationally and internationally to do those things and Russia didn't follow them. Their invasion was illegal

Did Fedir comply with Article 51 of the UN Charter?

After recognizing the independence of the LPR/DNR Russia all three could claim a right of collective self-defense in analog to Article 51 of the UN Charter.

Don't be upset Putin pulled the same move the US did when they bombed the shit out of Serbia to "protect" Kosovo.

If we're using your (and Putin's) logic, he doesn't have to because Putin, Russia, Donetsk and Luhansk did not comply with Article 51.

From the United Nations Charter:

Article 51
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Donetsk and Luhansk were and are not members of the UN. They are only recognized by Russia, Syria, and North Korea.

What NATO (not just the US) did in Serbia to protect Kosovo was also illegal.

The NATO intervention was, the Commission concludes, illegal but legitimate. It was illegal because it did not receive approval from the UN Security Council but it was legitimate because all diplomatic avenues had been exhausted and there was no other way to stop the killings and atrocities in Kosovo. The Commission has however criticized the way the intervention was conducted in several aspects.

Diplomatic avenues were not exhausted over Donetsk and Luhansk. Killings and atrocities in Donetsk and Luhansk were no where near what was happening in Kosovo. It was hypocritical for Russia to use Kosovo as justification when it still hasn't recognized the country.

[Ibanez]

Peanuts.

The Pentagon can't account for about $2 trillion, they won't even notice it

Trillion? What are you referring to? This seems like an exaggeration.

Must be the aggregate. When I was in logistics with the USN, one location was wasting approximately $60M a decade in warehousing costs.

[UNI88]

Could go in the funnies thread as well.

[kalm]

Things may not be going well in Bakhmut…