Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[kalm]

I’m sure this will create some more gnashing of teeth. From Houndy’s post in the Trump vs. Everyone thread.

The Times report provided disturbing new details, for instance, about how a key prosecutor, Nora Dannehy, quit Durham’s team in 2020 over “ethical” concerns, including his close dealings with Barr, and discussions about releasing an unorthodox interim report before the 2020 election that might have helped Trump, but which didn’t come to fruition.

Critics of the Durham inquiry also noted early on that Barr on several occasions, and contrary to longtime DoJ policies, suggested publicly that Durham’s inquiry would yield significant results, which in effect would help validate Trump’s charges that some officials at the FBI and CIA had led a political witch-hunt.

Further, Barr and Durham, in highly unusual public statements early in their investigation, tried to undermine a chief conclusion of a report by the DoJ inspector general, Michael Horowitz, that the Russia investigation was based on sufficient facts to warrant opening the investigation in 2016.


Ex-DoJ officials say the Durham inquiry seemed aimed from the start at boosting Trump’s political fortunes.

“It was clear to people following the Durham investigation as it unfolded that it was highly irregular from the start,” said former deputy AG Donald Ayer who served in the George HW Bush administration “Indeed there’s good reason to believe that its purpose and primary function was to create fodder to advance Trump’s election prospects.”

Critics note that Barr tapped Durham to lead the investigation just a month after special counsel Robert Mueller issued a large report documenting substantial ties between Trump’s campaign and Russia, and concluded that Moscow tried to sway the election to help Trump in “sweeping” and “systematic” ways, a conclusion Barr and Trump worked to downplay.

[UNI88]

I’m sure this will create some more gnashing of teeth. From Houndy’s post in the Trump vs. Everyone thread.

The Times report provided disturbing new details, for instance, about how a key prosecutor, Nora Dannehy, quit Durham’s team in 2020 over “ethical” concerns, including his close dealings with Barr, and discussions about releasing an unorthodox interim report before the 2020 election that might have helped Trump, but which didn’t come to fruition.

Critics of the Durham inquiry also noted early on that Barr on several occasions, and contrary to longtime DoJ policies, suggested publicly that Durham’s inquiry would yield significant results, which in effect would help validate Trump’s charges that some officials at the FBI and CIA had led a political witch-hunt.

Further, Barr and Durham, in highly unusual public statements early in their investigation, tried to undermine a chief conclusion of a report by the DoJ inspector general, Michael Horowitz, that the Russia investigation was based on sufficient facts to warrant opening the investigation in 2016.


Ex-DoJ officials say the Durham inquiry seemed aimed from the start at boosting Trump’s political fortunes.

“It was clear to people following the Durham investigation as it unfolded that it was highly irregular from the start,” said former deputy AG Donald Ayer who served in the George HW Bush administration “Indeed there’s good reason to believe that its purpose and primary function was to create fodder to advance Trump’s election prospects.”

Critics note that Barr tapped Durham to lead the investigation just a month after special counsel Robert Mueller issued a large report documenting substantial ties between Trump’s campaign and Russia, and concluded that Moscow tried to sway the election to help Trump in “sweeping” and “systematic” ways, a conclusion Barr and Trump worked to downplay.

So Durham was biased for trump and working to pump trump up? I can believe that and it is definitely concerning.

Also concerning is that it is just as if not more apparent that a federal bureau was biased against trump and working to tear him down.

A biased FBI concerns me much more than a biased individual. It is easier to root out bias and corruption of individuals than it is an organizational bureaucracy.

[GannonFan]

No offense, kalmie, but the amount of water you're trying to carry in this thread all of a sudden to try to brush past the egregiousness of the lack of good judgment and integrity by many in the FBI at the beginning and through the several years of investigations is something that would make Kipling write a story about you.

At the end of the day, there was no real collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia - just wasn't. And heck, if anything, there was just as much minimal collusion with the Clinton campaign, knowingly or not, with Russia. It was a crap show, and the FBI completely bungled the job of investigating it. It was the perfect example of the descent of our political class, on both sides of the aisle, being so gung-ho on grasping power and hanging on to it that they would do anything and everything to accomplish that task. Coupled with an FBI that was at the same time incompetent and unable to separate their personal feelings from the job at hand. It's sobering, really, how poorly our government functioned at the time and often since.

Trump is a bad guy - a really bad guy. And his extreme narcissism, thrown together with potentially increasing senility, makes him worse year after year. How anyone can vote for this guy, multiple times even let alone once, is beyond me. I get it that the GOP, just like the Dems, only cares about winning power and exerting it, but even then there should be enough people in that party to realize who and what he is and just pick someone else. There's no real shortage of unsavory politicians so just pick another one not as deranged. But also, at the same time, people in opposition to Trump can't just decide that any and all means are on the table to keep him from power. It's like when the Philly cops dropped a bomb on that MOVE house back in the 80's and then let 60 other houses also go up in flames.

This thread will remain in infamy simply because people decided to believe any and everything just to contort the story to fit what they wanted to believe. And apparently, it's not just a thing of the past, we still have posters picking up the flag and carrying on. Critical thinking is easily one of the first things to go when people decide to adopt absolutist positions on things. Hopefully as Trump nears the end of his time in the spotlight folks who have moved towards those absolutist stances on both sides regain a little sanity. It might be naive by me, but I hope that happens.

[kalm]

No offense, kalmie, but the amount of water you're trying to carry in this thread all of a sudden to try to brush past the egregiousness of the lack of good judgment and integrity by many in the FBI at the beginning and through the several years of investigations is something that would make Kipling write a story about you.

At the end of the day, there was no real collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia - just wasn't. And heck, if anything, there was just as much minimal collusion with the Clinton campaign, knowingly or not, with Russia. It was a crap show, and the FBI completely bungled the job of investigating it. It was the perfect example of the descent of our political class, on both sides of the aisle, being so gung-ho on grasping power and hanging on to it that they would do anything and everything to accomplish that task. Coupled with an FBI that was at the same time incompetent and unable to separate their personal feelings from the job at hand. It's sobering, really, how poorly our government functioned at the time and often since.

Trump is a bad guy - a really bad guy. And his extreme narcissism, thrown together with potentially increasing senility, makes him worse year after year. How anyone can vote for this guy, multiple times even let alone once, is beyond me. I get it that the GOP, just like the Dems, only cares about winning power and exerting it, but even then there should be enough people in that party to realize who and what he is and just pick someone else. There's no real shortage of unsavory politicians so just pick another one not as deranged. But also, at the same time, people in opposition to Trump can't just decide that any and all means are on the table to keep him from power. It's like when the Philly cops dropped a bomb on that MOVE house back in the 80's and then let 60 other houses also go up in flames.

This thread will remain in infamy simply because people decided to believe any and everything just to contort the story to fit what they wanted to believe. And apparently, it's not just a thing of the past, we still have posters picking up the flag and carrying on. Critical thinking is easily one of the first things to go when people decide to adopt absolutist positions on things. Hopefully as Trump nears the end of his time in the spotlight folks who have moved towards those absolutist stances on both sides regain a little sanity. It might be naive by me, but I hope that happens.

Source?

[UNI88]

No offense, kalmie, but the amount of water you're trying to carry in this thread all of a sudden to try to brush past the egregiousness of the lack of good judgment and integrity by many in the FBI at the beginning and through the several years of investigations is something that would make Kipling write a story about you.

At the end of the day, there was no real collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia - just wasn't. And heck, if anything, there was just as much minimal collusion with the Clinton campaign, knowingly or not, with Russia. It was a crap show, and the FBI completely bungled the job of investigating it. It was the perfect example of the descent of our political class, on both sides of the aisle, being so gung-ho on grasping power and hanging on to it that they would do anything and everything to accomplish that task. Coupled with an FBI that was at the same time incompetent and unable to separate their personal feelings from the job at hand. It's sobering, really, how poorly our government functioned at the time and often since.

Trump is a bad guy - a really bad guy. And his extreme narcissism, thrown together with potentially increasing senility, makes him worse year after year. How anyone can vote for this guy, multiple times even let alone once, is beyond me. I get it that the GOP, just like the Dems, only cares about winning power and exerting it, but even then there should be enough people in that party to realize who and what he is and just pick someone else. There's no real shortage of unsavory politicians so just pick another one not as deranged. But also, at the same time, people in opposition to Trump can't just decide that any and all means are on the table to keep him from power. It's like when the Philly cops dropped a bomb on that MOVE house back in the 80's and then let 60 other houses also go up in flames.

This thread will remain in infamy simply because people decided to believe any and everything just to contort the story to fit what they wanted to believe. And apparently, it's not just a thing of the past, we still have posters picking up the flag and carrying on. Critical thinking is easily one of the first things to go when people decide to adopt absolutist positions on things. Hopefully as Trump nears the end of his time in the spotlight folks who have moved towards those absolutist stances on both sides regain a little sanity. It might be naive by me, but I hope that happens.

Source?

Common sense. Reason. True post-partisanism.

[SeattleGriz]

Holy shit. On to the next media talking point.

Ain't shit happening to Schiff.

[UNI88]

Holy shit. On to the next media talking point.

Ain't shit happening to Schiff.

Should whatever happens to Schiff happen to Comer and vice versa?

[SeattleGriz]

Holy shit. On to the next media talking point.

Ain't shit happening to Schiff.

Should whatever happens to Schiff happen to Comer and vice versa?

Was Comer on the House Intelligence Committee and came out saying he has proof of a crime when a special counsel said there was none? If yes, then yes. I don't care which side, I just want our elected officials to get busted when lying.

I absolutely loathe the speech and debate clause for this reason.

[UNI88]

Should whatever happens to Schiff happen to Comer and vice versa?

Was Comer on the House Intelligence Committee and came out saying he has proof of a crime when a special counsel said there was none? If yes, then yes. I don't care which side, I just want our elected officials to get busted when lying.

I absolutely loathe the speech and debate clause for this reason.

Comer's the guy who lost his (imaginary) whistleblower who would prove Biden's crimes. He seems to have a lot in common with Schiff.

[SeattleGriz]

Was Comer on the House Intelligence Committee and came out saying he has proof of a crime when a special counsel said there was none? If yes, then yes. I don't care which side, I just want our elected officials to get busted when lying.

I absolutely loathe the speech and debate clause for this reason.

Comer's the guy who lost his (imaginary) whistleblower who would prove Biden's crimes. He seems to have a lot in common with Schiff.

Ah. Haven't been paying much attention to anything Hunter lately. Nothing will happen to him. He'll probably take some extremely low level plea and all the serious stuff will be blown off.

Just because I'm Conservative, doesn't mean I like republicans. If Comers a douche, get rid of him as well.

[kalm]

Source?

Common sense. Reason. True post-partisanism.

You dirty rotten son of a bitch!

[kalm]

[kalm]

This probably helps with tourism and all the winning.

[BDKJMU]

-Elements within the FBI took part in attempting to subvert an election in 2016, and then an attempted coup by lawfare of a sitting POTUS in 2017 with their fake Trump Russia collusion hoax (see spying on the Trump campaign, lying on FISA warrant applications, Crossfire Hurricane, the Steele Dossier, etc).

-Elements within the FBI attempted to affect the outcome of the 2020 election by colluding with Big Tech and the MSM to suppress Hunter’s laptop. They knew it was real but were saying the opposite to Big Tech and the MSM.

-The FBI has been illegally surveilling Americans for years now with millions of warrantless searches.

-In 2021 the FBI opemed ip multiple domestic terrorism investigations on parents complaining at local school board meetings.

-Their treatment of whistleblowers.

The list goes on. The FBI has become hyper political, and rotten to the core.

[UNI88]

-Elements within the FBI took part in attempting to subvert an election in 2016, and then an attempted coup by lawfare of a sitting POTUS in 2017 with their fake Trump Russia collusion hoax (see spying on the Trump campaign, lying on FISA warrant applications, Crossfire Hurricane, the Steele Dossier, etc).

-Elements within the FBI attempted to affect the outcome of the 2020 election by colluding with Big Tech and the MSM to suppress Hunter’s laptop. They knew it was real but were saying the opposite to Big Tech and the MSM.

-The FBI has been illegally surveilling Americans for years now with millions of warrantless searches.

-In 2021 the FBI opemed ip multiple domestic terrorism investigations on parents complaining at local school board meetings.

-Their treatment of whistleblowers.

The list goes on. The FBI has become hyper political, and rotten to the core.

Is it serendipity or karma that they're investigating donald trump who is also hyper political and rotten to the core?

Let's solve the problem by cleaning up the FBI and retiring trump to an old folks home where he can regal the other residents with make believe tales of his greatness.

[kalm]

-Elements within the FBI took part in attempting to subvert an election in 2016, and then an attempted coup by lawfare of a sitting POTUS in 2017 with their fake Trump Russia collusion hoax (see spying on the Trump campaign, lying on FISA warrant applications, Crossfire Hurricane, the Steele Dossier, etc).

-Elements within the FBI attempted to affect the outcome of the 2020 election by colluding with Big Tech and the MSM to suppress Hunter’s laptop. They knew it was real but were saying the opposite to Big Tech and the MSM.

-The FBI has been illegally surveilling Americans for years now with millions of warrantless searches.

-In 2021 the FBI opemed ip multiple domestic terrorism investigations on parents complaining at local school board meetings.

-Their treatment of whistleblowers.

The list goes on. The FBI has become hyper political, and rotten to the core.

Yes…well that’s exactly the explanation that Joe Walsh is speaking to here.

[UNI88]

-Elements within the FBI took part in attempting to subvert an election in 2016, and then an attempted coup by lawfare of a sitting POTUS in 2017 with their fake Trump Russia collusion hoax (see spying on the Trump campaign, lying on FISA warrant applications, Crossfire Hurricane, the Steele Dossier, etc).

-Elements within the FBI attempted to affect the outcome of the 2020 election by colluding with Big Tech and the MSM to suppress Hunter’s laptop. They knew it was real but were saying the opposite to Big Tech and the MSM.

-The FBI has been illegally surveilling Americans for years now with millions of warrantless searches.

-In 2021 the FBI opemed ip multiple domestic terrorism investigations on parents complaining at local school board meetings.

-Their treatment of whistleblowers.

The list goes on. The FBI has become hyper political, and rotten to the core.

Yes…well that’s exactly the explanation that Joe Walsh is speaking to here.

• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2008? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2012? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2016? Yes.
• Did the trump campaign collude with Russia to assist them in subverting/influencing our elections in 2016? No.
• Did the fbi use unethical/illegal methods to justify an investigation into the trump campaign's alleged collusion with russia? Yes.
• Are republicans justified in being upset with the fbi? Yes.
• Should republicans also be upset with russia? Yes.
• Is it fair to ask why russian subversion/influence was a bigger concern to the fbi and democrats in 2016 than it was in 2008 or 2012? Yes.

Both sides are slimy and dirty on this one (and countless others) and neither has the moral high ground.

[SeattleGriz]

Yes…well that’s exactly the explanation that Joe Walsh is speaking to here.

• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2008? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2012? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2016? Yes.
• Did the trump campaign collude with Russia to assist them in subverting/influencing our elections in 2016? No.
• Did the fbi use unethical/illegal methods to justify an investigation into the trump campaign's alleged collusion with russia? Yes.
• Are republicans justified in being upset with the fbi? Yes.
• Should republicans also be upset with russia? Yes.
• Is it fair to ask why russian subversion/influence was a bigger concern to the fbi and democrats in 2016 than it was in 2008 or 2012? Yes.

Both sides are slimy and dirty on this one (and countless others) and neither has the moral high ground.

If you're an establishment Republican, you're upset on the outside, but happy on the inside. A piece many people miss is that many Republicans knew from the start it was bologna and didn't do a thing to refute. They too wanted that interloper Trump gone.

[kalm]

Yes…well that’s exactly the explanation that Joe Walsh is speaking to here.

• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2008? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2012? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2016? Yes.
• Did the trump campaign collude with Russia to assist them in subverting/influencing our elections in 2016? No.
• Did the fbi use unethical/illegal methods to justify an investigation into the trump campaign's alleged collusion with russia? Yes.
• Are republicans justified in being upset with the fbi? Yes.
• Should republicans also be upset with russia? Yes.
• Is it fair to ask why russian subversion/influence was a bigger concern to the fbi and democrats in 2016 than it was in 2008 or 2012? Yes.

Both sides are slimy and dirty on this one (and countless others) and neither has the moral high ground.

So, for example, Manafort, convicted of hiding millions from working with a pro Russian UKR party and working pro Bono for the Trump campaign was meh. But FBI investigations, book ‘em Danno!

Seems legit.

[UNI88]

• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2008? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2012? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2016? Yes.
• Did the trump campaign collude with Russia to assist them in subverting/influencing our elections in 2016? No.
• Did the fbi use unethical/illegal methods to justify an investigation into the trump campaign's alleged collusion with russia? Yes.
• Are republicans justified in being upset with the fbi? Yes.
• Should republicans also be upset with russia? Yes.
• Is it fair to ask why russian subversion/influence was a bigger concern to the fbi and democrats in 2016 than it was in 2008 or 2012? Yes.

Both sides are slimy and dirty on this one (and countless others) and neither has the moral high ground.

So, for example, Manafort, convicted of hiding millions from working with a pro Russian UKR party and working pro Bono for the Trump campaign was meh. But FBI investigations, book ‘em Danno!

Seems legit.

That would make me the yang to your yin but no, like a true post-partisan, I think they should all be investigated with equal fervor and justice should be served based on the results of those investigations, not party or ideology.

[SeattleGriz]

• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2008? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2012? Yes.
• Did russia seek to subvert/influence our elections in 2016? Yes.
• Did the trump campaign collude with Russia to assist them in subverting/influencing our elections in 2016? No.
• Did the fbi use unethical/illegal methods to justify an investigation into the trump campaign's alleged collusion with russia? Yes.
• Are republicans justified in being upset with the fbi? Yes.
• Should republicans also be upset with russia? Yes.
• Is it fair to ask why russian subversion/influence was a bigger concern to the fbi and democrats in 2016 than it was in 2008 or 2012? Yes.

Both sides are slimy and dirty on this one (and countless others) and neither has the moral high ground.

So, for example, Manafort, convicted of hiding millions from working with a pro Russian UKR party and working pro Bono for the Trump campaign was meh. But FBI investigations, book ‘em Danno!

Seems legit.

Don't forget about Tony Podesta working with Manafort. Tony is John's brother. You know, the Hillary Clinton campaign manager.

Amazing how he got to close up shop and everything was above board.

Lastly, the FBI already looked at Manafort's money and passed on that, but had no problem going back at him a second time once affiliated with Trump.

[kalm]

So, for example, Manafort, convicted of hiding millions from working with a pro Russian UKR party and working pro Bono for the Trump campaign was meh. But FBI investigations, book ‘em Danno!

Seems legit.

Don't forget about Tony Podesta working with Manafort. Tony is John's brother. You know, the Hillary Clinton campaign manager.

Amazing how he got to close up shop and everything was above board.

Lastly, the FBI already looked at Manafort's money and passed on that, but had no problem going back at him a second time once affiliated with Trump.

You forget I’m no fan of establishment Dems. Clintons, Podesta, Emmanuel, Pelosi, Manchin…the list is long and distinguished.

But the Russian ties to Trump are extraordinarily obvious.

[kalm]

So, for example, Manafort, convicted of hiding millions from working with a pro Russian UKR party and working pro Bono for the Trump campaign was meh. But FBI investigations, book ‘em Danno!

Seems legit.

That would make me the yang to your yin but no, like a true post-partisan, I think they should all be investigated with equal fervor and justice should be served based on the results of those investigations, not party or ideology.

Which is what’s happening and I’ve echoed many times your sentiments of both sides do it. There’s also selective prosecution. Trump had his chance with Durham. Fail.

[BDKJMU]

-Elements within the FBI took part in attempting to subvert an election in 2016, and then an attempted coup by lawfare of a sitting POTUS in 2017 with their fake Trump Russia collusion hoax (see spying on the Trump campaign, lying on FISA warrant applications, Crossfire Hurricane, the Steele Dossier, etc).

-Elements within the FBI attempted to affect the outcome of the 2020 election by colluding with Big Tech and the MSM to suppress Hunter’s laptop. They knew it was real but were saying the opposite to Big Tech and the MSM.

-The FBI has been illegally surveilling Americans for years now with millions of warrantless searches.

-In 2021 the FBI opemed ip multiple domestic terrorism investigations on parents complaining at local school board meetings.

-Their treatment of whistleblowers.

The list goes on. The FBI has become hyper political, and rotten to the core.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't forget about Tony Podesta working with Manafort. Tony is John's brother. You know, the Hillary Clinton campaign manager.

Amazing how he got to close up shop and everything was above board.

Lastly, the FBI already looked at Manafort's money and passed on that, but had no problem going back at him a second time once affiliated with Trump.

You forget I’m no fan of establishment Dems. Clintons, Podesta, Emmanuel, Pelosi, Manchin…the list is long and distinguished.

But the Russian ties to Trump are extraordinarily obvious.

As we are on Manafort, you know the crimes he was convicted of had nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with working with John and Tony Podesta?