The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

Interesting.


Conspiracy alert and not linked to tweet:

Word is that Zelensky was told to reject Putin's offer because he was promised game changing weapons. More specifically HIMARS. If true, this war was to have been the first test of Western next-generation battle doctrine, focused on persistent surveillance and precision strike

Russia adapted and the US ran out of ammo to give and now Ukrainians are paying the price.

Da, comrade, dees vas zee plan all along, Putin is master strategist, has running dog capitalists right vere he vants zem

Thought you said Russia had no air power?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... malertNEWS

Ukraine Runs Into Russian Air Superiority

Russia has taken advantage of its superior air power and Kyiv’s limited air defenses to strike Ukrainian armored columns and stop several attacks, destroying some of the sophisticated Western weaponry Ukraine is fielding.

[kalm]

Da, comrade, dees vas zee plan all along, Putin is master strategist, has running dog capitalists right vere he vants zem

Thought you said Russia had no air power?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... malertNEWS

Ukraine Runs Into Russian Air Superiority

Russia has taken advantage of its superior air power and Kyiv’s limited air defenses to strike Ukrainian armored columns and stop several attacks, destroying some of the sophisticated Western weaponry Ukraine is fielding.

They continue to take their lumps as well.

[kalm]

[kalm]

It’s either one hell of disinformation campaign or there is some dissension amongst the ranks…

[Skjellyfetti]

[kalm]

Reported traffic jams at midnight in Moscow. Skirmishes breaking out between Wagner regulars. Definitely seems like some shit is going down.

[SeattleGriz]

It’s either one hell of disinformation campaign or there is some dissension amongst the ranks…

Disinformation from the US/UK or Russia?

[SeattleGriz]

[Skjellyfetti]

Third front opened.

Little Green Men in Belgorod and now in Rostov.

[SeattleGriz]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

[kalm]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

Some people walk away from the negotiating table. Others lawyer, choosing the court system. Still others decide to launch an armed insurrection and march toward the capital of their own country I guess.

[houndawg]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

They're still working on your new talking points in Moscow - try to stick to generalities until then..

[UNI88]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

Wagner is simply attempting to denazify Russia.

Who is going to invade Russia to support the oppressed and persecuted members of Wagner?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

Kinda.

They wanted to roll Wagner under MoD and sent him a contract. Prig showed up at MoD last week with his own contract for MoD to sign - essentially rolling MoD under Wagner.

I guess you could look at it as a "contract dispute." But, it's really a power struggle. Wagner got way too powerful and got out of Putin and MoD's control because they were forced to make them more powerful to get anything done in Ukraine. Really to capture fuckin Bakhmut. Lol. Blew back big time.

[houndawg]

Da, comrade, dees vas zee plan all along, Putin is master strategist, has running dog capitalists right vere he vants zem

Thought you said Russia had no air power?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... malertNEWS

Ukraine Runs Into Russian Air Superiority

Russia has taken advantage of its superior air power and Kyiv’s limited air defenses to strike Ukrainian armored columns and stop several attacks, destroying some of the sophisticated Western weaponry Ukraine is fielding.

I said they had no air superiority.


I was right.

[SeattleGriz]

Thought you said Russia had no air power?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... malertNEWS

I said they had no air superiority.


I was right.

Nevermind the article and title list superiority. It's okay.

[houndawg]

I said they had no air superiority.


I was right.

Nevermind the article and title list superiority. It's okay.

So where is all the airpower?

Will they use it to stop Wagner from reaching Moscow?

[SeattleGriz]

Nevermind the article and title list superiority. It's okay.

So where is all the airpower?

Will they use it to stop Wagner from reaching Moscow?

Hey Klam#2. Stop asking silly questions you know the answer to. They have much more capability, but are not using it. It's still an SMO and not classified as a war. Russia is still holding back capability.

Wagner already turned around. Don't tell me you bought a coup was taking place?

[SeattleGriz]

Haven't been following at all, so I'm going to butcher this, but from what I'm reading, the Russian Ministry of Defense wanted to "roll" the Wagner group under its control. Told them they would have all the rights and benefits of regular military.

Prigozhin said "Nope". Don't know if he felt the terms were insufficient or simply didn't like the idea.

Anyway, and here comes the butchering part, it sounds like a contract dispute, at its most basic, set this in motion.

Kinda.

They wanted to roll Wagner under MoD and sent him a contract. Prig showed up at MoD last week with his own contract for MoD to sign - essentially rolling MoD under Wagner.

I guess you could look at it as a "contract dispute." But, it's really a power struggle. Wagner got way too powerful and got out of Putin and MoD's control because they were forced to make them more powerful to get anything done in Ukraine. Really to capture fuckin Bakhmut. Lol. Blew back big time.

Thank you for clarifying.

[SeattleGriz]

Obviously don't know intentions here, but if true, could push closer to wider war like this guy says.

The downing of the Reaper drone a couple months ago was a brushback pitch letting Western Intel know Russia was getting fed up with NATO participating in the war (ISR), but doing it outside the boundaries of Ukraine.

Pretty direct threat.

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/06/20/ ... ing-speed/

The statement by Shoigu leaves little doubt that we are entering the final phase of the Ukraine war as a war limited to the geography of Ukraine, and are possibly heading into a wider war with unforeseeable consequences both for Europeans and (finally) for Americans.

The ball is in the court of Washington and London.

[UNI88]

So where is all the airpower?

Will they use it to stop Wagner from reaching Moscow?

Hey Klam#2. Stop asking silly questions you know the answer to. They have much more capability, but are not using it. It's still an SMO and not classified as a war. Russia is still holding back capability.

Wagner already turned around. Don't tell me you bought a coup was taking place?

The “coup” or whatever you want to call it was not a good look for putin.

It also took some of their best troops away from Ukraine at least temporarily, both Wagner and the Chechens who I heard were pulled to respond.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kalm]

So where is all the airpower?

Will they use it to stop Wagner from reaching Moscow?

Hey Klam#2. Stop asking silly questions you know the answer to. They have much more capability, but are not using it. It's still an SMO and not classified as a war. Russia is still holding back capability.

Wagner already turned around. Don't tell me you bought a coup was taking place?

Putin thought a coup was taking place.

[SeattleGriz]

Hey Klam#2. Stop asking silly questions you know the answer to. They have much more capability, but are not using it. It's still an SMO and not classified as a war. Russia is still holding back capability.

Wagner already turned around. Don't tell me you bought a coup was taking place?

Putin thought a coup was taking place.

Oh, did he call you up and tell you what was going on like he does with his war strategy?

[kalm]

Putin thought a coup was taking place.

Oh, did he call you up and tell you what was going on like he does with his war strategy?

“I appeal to the citizens of Russia, to the personnel of the armed forces, law enforcement and security services, fighters and commanders currently fighting on their positions, repelling the enemy attacks, doing it heroically.

“I spoke to the commanders in all directions last night. I appeal also to those who were deceptively pulled into the criminal adventure, pushed towards a serious crime of an armed mutiny.


“Russia today is leading the most difficult war for its future, repelling the aggression of neo-Nazis and their handlers. Against us, the whole military, economical and information machines of the west are turned. We fight for the lives and security of our people. For our sovereignty and independence. The right to remain Russia, a state with 1,000 years of history.

“It’s a battle where the fate of our people is decided and requires uniting of all our forces, unity, consolidation and responsibility. Everything else that weakens us must be shoved to the side.

“Our external enemies are using any arguments to undermine us from within. Thus, actions splitting our unity is a betrayal of our people, our combat brothers who fight now at the frontline.

“It’s a strike in the back of our country and our people. Exactly this strike was dealt in 1917 when the country was in world war one, but its victory was stolen. Intrigues, and arguments behind the army’s back turned out to be the greatest catastrophe, destruction of the army and the state, loss of huge territories, resulting in a tragedy and a civil war. Russians were killing Russians, brothers killing brothers. But the beneficiaries were various political chevaliers of fortune and foreign powers who divided the country, and tore it into parts.


“We will not let this happen. We will protect our people and state from any threats, including internal betrayal.

“What we’re facing is exactly internal betrayal. Extraordinary ambitions and personal interests led to treason. Treason of their own country and people and of the case that fighters of Wagner were dying for alongside our soldiers. Heroes who liberated Soledar and Artemivsk, towns and cities of the Donbas. They fought and were giving lives to Novorossiya and the unity of the Russian world.

“Their name and glory were also betrayed by those who are trying to organise the mutiny, pushing the country into anarchy and brother-killing, to a defeat, in the end, and capitulation.

“Repeat: any internal mutiny is a deadly threat to our state, to us as a nation. It’s a strike against our nation, our people. And our actions to defend the fatherland from such a threat will be brutal. Anyone who consciously went on the path of betrayal, who prepared the armed mutiny, went on the path of blackmail and terrorist actions, will take an inevitable punishment. They will answer to the law and our people.“

PS: JK…we struck a deal.

[SeattleGriz]

Oh, did he call you up and tell you what was going on like he does with his war strategy?

“I appeal to the citizens of Russia, to the personnel of the armed forces, law enforcement and security services, fighters and commanders currently fighting on their positions, repelling the enemy attacks, doing it heroically.

“I spoke to the commanders in all directions last night. I appeal also to those who were deceptively pulled into the criminal adventure, pushed towards a serious crime of an armed mutiny.


“Russia today is leading the most difficult war for its future, repelling the aggression of neo-Nazis and their handlers. Against us, the whole military, economical and information machines of the west are turned. We fight for the lives and security of our people. For our sovereignty and independence. The right to remain Russia, a state with 1,000 years of history.

“It’s a battle where the fate of our people is decided and requires uniting of all our forces, unity, consolidation and responsibility. Everything else that weakens us must be shoved to the side.

“Our external enemies are using any arguments to undermine us from within. Thus, actions splitting our unity is a betrayal of our people, our combat brothers who fight now at the frontline.

“It’s a strike in the back of our country and our people. Exactly this strike was dealt in 1917 when the country was in world war one, but its victory was stolen. Intrigues, and arguments behind the army’s back turned out to be the greatest catastrophe, destruction of the army and the state, loss of huge territories, resulting in a tragedy and a civil war. Russians were killing Russians, brothers killing brothers. But the beneficiaries were various political chevaliers of fortune and foreign powers who divided the country, and tore it into parts.


“We will not let this happen. We will protect our people and state from any threats, including internal betrayal.

“What we’re facing is exactly internal betrayal. Extraordinary ambitions and personal interests led to treason. Treason of their own country and people and of the case that fighters of Wagner were dying for alongside our soldiers. Heroes who liberated Soledar and Artemivsk, towns and cities of the Donbas. They fought and were giving lives to Novorossiya and the unity of the Russian world.

“Their name and glory were also betrayed by those who are trying to organise the mutiny, pushing the country into anarchy and brother-killing, to a defeat, in the end, and capitulation.

“Repeat: any internal mutiny is a deadly threat to our state, to us as a nation. It’s a strike against our nation, our people. And our actions to defend the fatherland from such a threat will be brutal. Anyone who consciously went on the path of betrayal, who prepared the armed mutiny, went on the path of blackmail and terrorist actions, will take an inevitable punishment. They will answer to the law and our people.“

PS: JK…we struck a deal.

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.