Team Trump v/s Everyone

[kalm]

Cherry picking my post and what you respond to and keep trotting out weak arguments that a guilty person would use to try and avoid responsibility for their actions.

An impeachment is not a trial. Double jeopardy doesn’t apply.

Did they attempt to seat the Hawaii electors? Were they part of a concerted effort to overturn an election? The fraudulent electors did not happen in a vacuum and should be considered in the context of all of trumps efforts to prevent the lawful transfer of power.

It wasn’t just Georgia. trump tried to bully Wisconsin (see the article above about Robin Vos), Michigan, and I’m sure there are others. Raffensberger has more integrity in his pinky than trump has in his entire body and Brian Kemp is 1 million times a better leader than trump but anyone who isn’t 100% loyal and support every baseless claim trump makes is a RINO, neocon or similar (again see Vos article). So while you might have provided MAGAt yahoo echo chamber talking points, you only answered the question in your wet trump dreams.

Links to reputable sites on the Georgia ballot inspection claims? You have a tendency to push MAGAt yahoo tinfoil hat conspiracy bullshit as truth.


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I'm only cherry picking because I'm on my phone. It's a total pain to try and answer 4 or 5 points in a reply, so I've got to choose which ones. Limit the questions to one or two and I'll try to answer in one post.

Here's your link to the case. A little background. The case was initially dismissed for the usual "lack of standing", then was overturned when the Supreme Court said there was a right to see the ballots.

The state's attorneys recently stepped down from the case and have to be replaced.

This has been going on since 2020. That's an insane amount of time.

And somehow this blockbuster complaint has gone unnoticed by news agencies and even after all of the previous reviews and investigations. And Trump knew about it all along as he asked Ragffensberger for one more vote than needed way before the evidence even came to light.

Fucking bombshell, man!

[SeattleGriz]

I'm only cherry picking because I'm on my phone. It's a total pain to try and answer 4 or 5 points in a reply, so I've got to choose which ones. Limit the questions to one or two and I'll try to answer in one post.

Here's your link to the case. A little background. The case was initially dismissed for the usual "lack of standing", then was overturned when the Supreme Court said there was a right to see the ballots.

The state's attorneys recently stepped down from the case and have to be replaced.

This has been going on since 2020. That's an insane amount of time.

And somehow this blockbuster complaint has gone unnoticed by news agencies and even after all of the previous reviews and investigations. And Trump knew about it all along as he asked Ragffensberger for one more vote than needed way before the evidence can even came to light.

Fucking bombshell, man!

How does what you say make this case false?

The case has pointed out that in Fulton county alone, they can't corroborate their election claims AND are unwilling to prove their claims to outside inspections. It's taken THREE years to get this far through the court system, and it still hasn't been resolved. The votes in question are greater than the margin of victory.

[kalm]

And somehow this blockbuster complaint has gone unnoticed by news agencies and even after all of the previous reviews and investigations. And Trump knew about it all along as he asked Ragffensberger for one more vote than needed way before the evidence can even came to light.

Fucking bombshell, man!

How does what you say make this case false?

The case has pointed out that in Fulton county alone, they can't corroborate their election claims AND are unwilling to prove their claims to outside inspections. It's taken THREE years to get this far through the court system, and it still hasn't been resolved. The votes in question are greater than the margin of victory.

Your unsubstantiated assertions and no link to at least a background story. If you had any unbiased sources you’d lead with that as neither of us are lawyers.

Occam’s razor.

[SeattleGriz]

How does what you say make this case false?

The case has pointed out that in Fulton county alone, they can't corroborate their election claims AND are unwilling to prove their claims to outside inspections. It's taken THREE years to get this far through the court system, and it still hasn't been resolved. The votes in question are greater than the margin of victory.

Your unsubstantiated assertions and no link to at least a background story. If you had any unbiased sources you’d lead with that as neither of us are lawyers.

Occam’s razor.

I gave you the actual court document. No bias through a news source. If you bothered to read it, it is pretty easy read as they are showing how the reported totals do not match up with what was discovered via FOIA and interviews AND does not match up with the process the State of Georgia has said they will follow.

Just because you don't like the source, an ACTUAL court document, does not make 2+2=4 false. What you are saying is like trying to say you don't believe a math textbook because MSNBC didn't write a story corroborating it's veracity. Your lawyer claim is another fallacy. Address the facts, not your narrative.

All that needs to be done is for the State to hand over the requested ballots and images.

[kalm]

Your unsubstantiated assertions and no link to at least a background story. If you had any unbiased sources you’d lead with that as neither of us are lawyers.

Occam’s razor.

I gave you the actual court document. No bias through a news source. If you bothered to read it, it is pretty easy read as they are showing how the reported totals do not match up with what was discovered via FOIA and interviews AND does not match up with the process the State of Georgia has said they will follow.

Just because you don't like the source, an ACTUAL court document, does not make 2+2=4 false. What you are saying is like trying to say you don't believe a math textbook because MSNBC didn't write a story corroborating it's veracity. Your lawyer claim is another fallacy. Address the facts, not your narrative.

All that needs to be done is for the State to hand over the requested ballots and images.

Don’t deny a complaint has been filed. What you posted is with the board of elections. Why not just post the actual court filing?

And why are news sources not all over this?

If you’d like to be believed, try harder.

[UNI88]

I gave you the actual court document. No bias through a news source. If you bothered to read it, it is pretty easy read as they are showing how the reported totals do not match up with what was discovered via FOIA and interviews AND does not match up with the process the State of Georgia has said they will follow.

Just because you don't like the source, an ACTUAL court document, does not make 2+2=4 false. What you are saying is like trying to say you don't believe a math textbook because MSNBC didn't write a story corroborating it's veracity. Your lawyer claim is another fallacy. Address the facts, not your narrative.

All that needs to be done is for the State to hand over the requested ballots and images.

Don’t deny a complaint has been filed. What you posted is with the board of elections. Why not just post the actual court filing?

And why are news sources not all over this?

If you’d like to be believed, try harder.

Has a complaint been filed? It’s a document uploaded to Scribd.

Most things like this are subject to public records laws (except in Floridastan where mullah deconkis likes to hide his malfeasance) so it should have been covered by a news outlet through an FOIA request if not actually searchable on the county website.

Methinks it’s fodder for MAGAt yahoo echo chamber conspiracy theorists.


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[UNI88]

Trump’s Latest Election Fraud Spin

State investigators found there were double-counted and miscounted votes during an audit in the county to confirm the 2020 results. But the audit was never part of the certified tally in Georgia, which Joe Biden narrowly won. Investigators say the errors were unintentional and did not affect the outcome.

During an AUDIT not the actual election.


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[kalm]

Trump’s Latest Election Fraud Spin

State investigators found there were double-counted and miscounted votes during an audit in the county to confirm the 2020 results. But the audit was never part of the certified tally in Georgia, which Joe Biden narrowly won. Investigators say the errors were unintentional and did not affect the outcome.

During an AUDIT not the actual election.


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Right. The totals went down from a 16,000 vote discrepancy to around 100 and it was all corrected before certification.

[SeattleGriz]

Trump’s Latest Election Fraud Spin

State investigators found there were double-counted and miscounted votes during an audit in the county to confirm the 2020 results. But the audit was never part of the certified tally in Georgia, which Joe Biden narrowly won. Investigators say the errors were unintentional and did not affect the outcome.

During an AUDIT not the actual election.


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Isn't that what an audit is for? To double check if there were errors. Regardless, the case Favorito vs Wan is now back in the courts, as they are trying to get the ballots and images from Georgia elections.

https://embed.documentcloud.org/documen ... =1&title=1

As we got off track from the original topic, I bring this up because you had asked why Trump would be involved in this? I think it's obvious he personally has standing and would actually like a forensic audit performed by an outside source.

On a separate note, I like how both you and Klam use the "we're not Lawyers" line, only to come back as if you are Lawyers when it suits your need.

What is the State of Georgia refusing to give over the ballots and images when a group of people have standing to inspect those ballots and images?

Late edit: The letter to the Elections group was a rebuttal to the Fact check statements. They are saying you cannot have properly reconciled and give their reasoning.

[kalm]

Trump’s Latest Election Fraud Spin



During an AUDIT not the actual election.


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Isn't that what an audit is for? To double check if there were errors. Regardless, the case Favorito vs Wan is now back in the courts, as they are trying to get the ballots and images from Georgia elections.

https://embed.documentcloud.org/documen ... =1&title=1

As we got off track from the original topic, I bring this up because you had asked why Trump would be involved in this? I think it's obvious he personally has standing and would actually like a forensic audit performed by an outside source.

On a separate note, I like how both you and Klam use the "we're not Lawyers" line, only to come back as if you are Lawyers when it suits your need.

What is the State of Georgia refusing to give over the ballots and images when a group of people have standing to inspect those ballots and images?

Late edit: The letter to the Elections group was a rebuttal to the Fact check statements. They are saying you cannot have properly reconciled and give their reasoning.

Why documentcloud and scribd?

Aren’t there any news orgs who have broken this down? Or is the conspiracy that deep?

[SeattleGriz]

Isn't that what an audit is for? To double check if there were errors. Regardless, the case Favorito vs Wan is now back in the courts, as they are trying to get the ballots and images from Georgia elections.

https://embed.documentcloud.org/documen ... =1&title=1

As we got off track from the original topic, I bring this up because you had asked why Trump would be involved in this? I think it's obvious he personally has standing and would actually like a forensic audit performed by an outside source.

On a separate note, I like how both you and Klam use the "we're not Lawyers" line, only to come back as if you are Lawyers when it suits your need.

What is the State of Georgia refusing to give over the ballots and images when a group of people have standing to inspect those ballots and images?

Late edit: The letter to the Elections group was a rebuttal to the Fact check statements. They are saying you cannot have properly reconciled and give their reasoning.

Why documentcloud and scribd?

Aren’t there any news orgs who have broken this down? Or is the conspiracy that deep?

Are the documents too deep for you to understand?

Have you heard about Trump classified document case in awhile? No, because there isn't any court action. Same here I assume, especially because it has taken three years to finally get to a court case in which the people are asking to see documents they have a right under Georgia law to see. Three years and no documents, so nothing has been proven. Who keeps writing a story about something that hasn't progressed.

Why aren't you supporting the people's right to transparency? Afraid? See this game is easy to play.

I remember when I pointed out the lack of chain of custody documents in the same county and you blew it off because you didn't like that the Georgia Star did the reporting. It was true, but you dismissed it.

Why was it almost impossible to find a story on Michael Mann and his lost Canadian case where he wouldn't turn over data and methodology? Same thing. It took forever.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

https://justthenews.com/government/cour ... -sent-back

On Monday, the appeals court reinstated the Garland Favorito, et al. v. Alex Wan, et al. case, which alleges that counterfeit ballots were included in the 2020 absentee election results in Fulton County.

Favorito, one of the petitioners and the co-founder of VoterGA, said in a statement regarding his lawsuit, "The misapplication of state and federal law, as well as case precedents, caused a two-year delay that prevented us from ensuring Georgia has honest, transparent elections. This double standard of justice impacted millions of Georgians and is one of the greatest voting rights violations in the state's history."

[kalm]

Why documentcloud and scribd?

Aren’t there any news orgs who have broken this down? Or is the conspiracy that deep?

Are the documents too deep for you to understand?

Have you heard about Trump classified document case in awhile? No, because there isn't any court action. Same here I assume, especially because it has taken three years to finally get to a court case in which the people are asking to see documents they have a right under Georgia law to see. Three years and no documents, so nothing has been proven. Who keeps writing a story about something that hasn't progressed.

Why aren't you supporting the people's right to transparency? Afraid? See this game is easy to play.

I remember when I pointed out the lack of chain of custody documents in the same county and you blew it off because you didn't like that the Georgia Star did the reporting. It was true, but you dismissed it.

Why was it almost impossible to find a story on Michael Mann and his lost Canadian case where he wouldn't turn over data and methodology? Same thing. It took forever.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

https://justthenews.com/government/cour ... -sent-back

On Monday, the appeals court reinstated the Garland Favorito, et al. v. Alex Wan, et al. case, which alleges that counterfeit ballots were included in the 2020 absentee election results in Fulton County.

Favorito, one of the petitioners and the co-founder of VoterGA, said in a statement regarding his lawsuit, "The misapplication of state and federal law, as well as case precedents, caused a two-year delay that prevented us from ensuring Georgia has honest, transparent elections. This double standard of justice impacted millions of Georgians and is one of the greatest voting rights violations in the state's history."

Justthenews is on it! This changes everything!

I might have to go back and review that Michael Mann was vindicated!

[Caribbean Hen]

Say it ain’t so Joe

“We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

[SeattleGriz]

Are the documents too deep for you to understand?

Have you heard about Trump classified document case in awhile? No, because there isn't any court action. Same here I assume, especially because it has taken three years to finally get to a court case in which the people are asking to see documents they have a right under Georgia law to see. Three years and no documents, so nothing has been proven. Who keeps writing a story about something that hasn't progressed.

Why aren't you supporting the people's right to transparency? Afraid? See this game is easy to play.

I remember when I pointed out the lack of chain of custody documents in the same county and you blew it off because you didn't like that the Georgia Star did the reporting. It was true, but you dismissed it.

Why was it almost impossible to find a story on Michael Mann and his lost Canadian case where he wouldn't turn over data and methodology? Same thing. It took forever.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

https://justthenews.com/government/cour ... -sent-back

Justthenews is on it! This changes everything!

I might have to go back and review that Michael Mann was vindicated!

Exactly. Right on cue with more logical fallacies. 2+2 is NOT 4.

[BDKJMU]

Say it ain’t so Joe

“We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

[Caribbean Hen]

Say it ain’t so Joe

“We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

Totally explains why they keep Uncle JoJo locked down the basement

[UNI88]

Why documentcloud and scribd?

Aren’t there any news orgs who have broken this down? Or is the conspiracy that deep?

Are the documents too deep for you to understand?

Have you heard about Trump classified document case in awhile? No, because there isn't any court action. Same here I assume, especially because it has taken three years to finally get to a court case in which the people are asking to see documents they have a right under Georgia law to see. Three years and no documents, so nothing has been proven. Who keeps writing a story about something that hasn't progressed.

Why aren't you supporting the people's right to transparency? Afraid? See this game is easy to play.

I remember when I pointed out the lack of chain of custody documents in the same county and you blew it off because you didn't like that the Georgia Star did the reporting. It was true, but you dismissed it.

Why was it almost impossible to find a story on Michael Mann and his lost Canadian case where he wouldn't turn over data and methodology? Same thing. It took forever.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

https://justthenews.com/government/cour ... -sent-back

On Monday, the appeals court reinstated the Garland Favorito, et al. v. Alex Wan, et al. case, which alleges that counterfeit ballots were included in the 2020 absentee election results in Fulton County.

Favorito, one of the petitioners and the co-founder of VoterGA, said in a statement regarding his lawsuit, "The misapplication of state and federal law, as well as case precedents, caused a two-year delay that prevented us from ensuring Georgia has honest, transparent elections. This double standard of justice impacted millions of Georgians and is one of the greatest voting rights violations in the state's history."

It’s lawfare by MAGAt yahoos, weaponizing the courts to attack the sanctity of our elections with make-believe allegations.

trump couldn’t get enough people to win the election fairly so they’re trying to tear down the electoral process so he can cheat his way back in.

Innocent election workers and officials are victims of a trump inspired MAGAt yahoo witch hunt.

[BDKJMU]

Michigan democrat controlled state supreme court, presented with same arguememt as in Colorado, rules in direct contrast to Colorado state supreme court, says Trump can stay on ballot. Now you have 2 courts, both democrat controlled, with polar opposite rulings on the 14th Amemdment, guaranteeing SCOTUS in involvememt.

[kalm]

Michigan democrat controlled state supreme court, presented with same arguememt as in Colorado, rules in direct contrast to Colorado state supreme court, says Trump can stay on ballot. Now you have 2 courts, both democrat controlled, with polar opposite rulings on the 14th Amemdment, guaranteeing SCOTUS in involvememt.

If Trump prevails in cases like this one and presidential immunity, Biden is almost guaranteed another 4 years if he wants it.

[UNI88]

Michigan democrat controlled state supreme court, presented with same arguememt as in Colorado, rules in direct contrast to Colorado state supreme court, says Trump can stay on ballot. Now you have 2 courts, both democrat controlled, with polar opposite rulings on the 14th Amemdment, guaranteeing SCOTUS in involvememt.

If Trump prevails in cases like this one and presidential immunity, Biden is almost guaranteed another 4 years if he wants it.

trump prevailing on presidential immunity is extremely bad for the USA regardless of who is President.


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[kalm]

If Trump prevails in cases like this one and presidential immunity, Biden is almost guaranteed another 4 years if he wants it.

trump prevailing on presidential immunity is extremely bad for the USA regardless of who is President.


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Agreed.

[SeattleGriz]

Are the documents too deep for you to understand?

Have you heard about Trump classified document case in awhile? No, because there isn't any court action. Same here I assume, especially because it has taken three years to finally get to a court case in which the people are asking to see documents they have a right under Georgia law to see. Three years and no documents, so nothing has been proven. Who keeps writing a story about something that hasn't progressed.

Why aren't you supporting the people's right to transparency? Afraid? See this game is easy to play.

I remember when I pointed out the lack of chain of custody documents in the same county and you blew it off because you didn't like that the Georgia Star did the reporting. It was true, but you dismissed it.

Why was it almost impossible to find a story on Michael Mann and his lost Canadian case where he wouldn't turn over data and methodology? Same thing. It took forever.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

https://justthenews.com/government/cour ... -sent-back

It’s lawfare by MAGAt yahoos, weaponizing the courts to attack the sanctity of our elections with make-believe allegations.

trump couldn’t get enough people to win the election fairly so they’re trying to tear down the electoral process so he can cheat his way back in.

Innocent election workers and officials are victims of a trump inspired MAGAt yahoo witch hunt.

It was the proper submittal of paperwork, afforded to citizens of the state of Georgia, to review ballots and images.

The Lawfare you speak of is the Elections "group" in Georgia hiring high powered defense attorneys to prevent the LEGAL hand over of ballots and images to the requestors for inspection.

[UNI88]

It’s lawfare by MAGAt yahoos, weaponizing the courts to attack the sanctity of our elections with make-believe allegations.

trump couldn’t get enough people to win the election fairly so they’re trying to tear down the electoral process so he can cheat his way back in.

Innocent election workers and officials are victims of a trump inspired MAGAt yahoo witch hunt.

It was the proper submittal of paperwork, afforded to citizens of the state of Georgia, to review ballots and images.

The Lawfare you speak of is the Elections "group" in Georgia hiring high powered defense attorneys to prevent the LEGAL hand over of ballots and images to the requestors for inspection.

It seems that you believe any attempt to use the courts against someone (trump) or something (access to the Georgia ballots) you support is lawfare. You then search for “proof” to support your claims believing what does and dismissing what doesn’t regardless of the integrity of the source.

Your ability to use an argument to criticize the elections “group” in Georgia and the opposite argument to defend trump without seeing the irony is amazing.


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[SeattleGriz]

It was the proper submittal of paperwork, afforded to citizens of the state of Georgia, to review ballots and images.

The Lawfare you speak of is the Elections "group" in Georgia hiring high powered defense attorneys to prevent the LEGAL hand over of ballots and images to the requestors for inspection.

It seems that you believe any attempt to use the courts against someone (trump) or something (access to the Georgia ballots) you support is lawfare. You then search for “proof” to support your claims believing what does and dismissing what doesn’t regardless of the integrity of the source.

Your ability to use an argument to criticize the elections “group” in Georgia and the opposite argument to defend trump without seeing the irony is amazing.


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You seem to have an issue with granting citizens their legal rights. The request to see the ballots and images did not impede or influence the election in any manner. The filing didn't even try and twist the rules. It was a citizen afforded request that has been denied for three years.

You always cry about the need for "proof", and I give you a real life example of how the proof you want, can't even be created because access to documents is denied. Even you see what is being done here.

Lawfare at it's most basic, is creating an undue burden on another. Filling the proper government forms out, and asking for access to documents you are allowed to see by State law, is not Lawfare.

As an add on, Trump used Lawfare as a business man by burying his claimants in the legal process. It's a big reason I wasn't a fan of him as a person.

[UNI88]

It seems that you believe any attempt to use the courts against someone (trump) or something (access to the Georgia ballots) you support is lawfare. You then search for “proof” to support your claims believing what does and dismissing what doesn’t regardless of the integrity of the source.

Your ability to use an argument to criticize the elections “group” in Georgia and the opposite argument to defend trump without seeing the irony is amazing.


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You seem to have an issue with granting citizens their legal rights. The request to see the ballots and images did not impede or influence the election in any manner. The filing didn't even try and twist the rules. It was a citizen afforded request that has been denied for three years.

You always cry about the need for "proof", and I give you a real life example of how the proof you want, can't even be created because access to documents is denied. Even you see what is being done here.

Lawfare at it's most basic, is creating an undue burden on another. Filling the proper government forms out, and asking for access to documents you are allowed to see by State law, is not Lawfare.

As an add on, Trump used Lawfare as a business man by burying his claimants in the legal process. It's a big reason I wasn't a fan of him as a person.

The first problem with the “proof” that you like to provide is we don’t know how valid it is. Who verifies documents uploaded to scribd and documentcloud?

FTR, it is as t difficult to find an actual court system version of the one document you linked to but I didn’t have time to compare them for accuracy.

If the Georgia election story was as big of a deal as you think it is then why hasn’t a conservative network like Fox covered it?

The second problem is trying to claim trump has immunity for almost every action he took while President (while biden has none). Talking to your supporters (we can leave it to the courts to decide whether that talk incited a seditious riot) is the action of a candidate not a sitting President. Saying that an election was stolen without proof is reckless and not a presidential duty. Trying to replace electors chosen by their states with fraudulent electors is not a presidential duty. Attempting to bully state officials into fraudulently finding votes or not certifying election results is not a presidential duty. The states and the federal election commission (an independent agency not under the President’s control) have primary responsibility for elections. Congress and the Courts also have roles. The president can’t attempt to interfere in elections outside of normal channels and then claim immunity for all his/her actions.

We’re not going to agree on the criminality of his intentional obstruction of the return of classified documents so we’ll skip that one.

trumps attempts to delay his trials until after the election is lawfare meant to avoid the very real possibility that he will be found guilty. If elected he’ll declare himself immune from prosecution and then attempt to fire/replace prosecutors and possibly judges before his term is up. He’s a spoiled little twat who thinks he’s above the law.


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