IS FCS FOOTBALL DYING?

[BlackFalkin]

Missouri State heads to FBS, joining Conference USA in 2025

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... e-usa-2025

Recent FCS to FBS —
Jacksonville State x
Delaware x
App State
Coastal Carolina x
Georgia Southern x
Georgia State x
Liberty x
Old Dominion x
James Madison (JMU) x
Sam Houston x
Kennesaw State x
Massachusetts (UMASS) x
Missouri State x

A little earlier—

Boise State
Nevada x
Texas State
Western Kentucky Hilltoppers x

x Do not have a 30,000 seat stadium.


The latest FCS Program to “accept an invitation from Conference USA” wasn’t an FCS powerhouse. Not only have championship caliber programs, like App State, Georgia Southern & JMU left the FCS, but regular .500 programs have left as well.. and they’re not looking back. What’s your opinion?

[AshevilleApp]

College football is changing and who knows where it ends up? I still think the big boys (SEC, Big 10,ACC, Big 12 and Notre Dame) will part ways with the other FBS conferences. From there I find it hard to say what happens to the rest of us. I wouldn't be surprised or against the current G5 and larger profile FCS programs combining. But who knows? I will say that where App is now has a strong 1AA feel to it. We play Marshall, Georgia Southern, JMU and Coastal in conference. That's like a tough playoff run in the old days!

[bonarae]

College football is changing and who knows where it ends up? I still think the big boys (SEC, Big 10,ACC, Big 12 and Notre Dame) will part ways with the other FBS conferences. From there I find it hard to say what happens to the rest of us. I wouldn't be surprised or against the current G5 and larger profile FCS programs combining. But who knows? I will say that where App is now has a strong 1AA feel to it. We play Marshall, Georgia Southern, JMU and Coastal in conference. That's like a tough playoff run in the old days!

How about the smaller programs especially Georgetown and the PFL teams? It will probably depend on the NCAA scrapping the Dayton Rule for the betterment of them and the Ivy League competition-wise.

[BDKJMU]

Missouri State heads to FBS, joining Conference USA in 2025

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... e-usa-2025

Recent FCS to FBS —
Jacksonville State x
Delaware x
App State
Coastal Carolina x
Georgia Southern x
Georgia State x
Liberty x
Old Dominion x
James Madison (JMU) x
Sam Houston x
Kennesaw State x
Massachusetts (UMASS) x
Missouri State x

A little earlier—

Boise State
Nevada x
Texas State
Western Kentucky Hilltoppers x

x Do not have a 30,000 seat stadium.


The latest FCS Program to “accept an invitation from Conference USA” wasn’t an FCS powerhouse. Not only have championship caliber programs, like App State, Georgia Southern & JMU left the FCS, but regular .500 programs have left as well.. and they’re not looking back. What’s your opinion?

If you’re going to include Boise St (moved up 1996) need to include Marshall (moved up 1997). That list is basically all publics except for Liberty:
-12 to 13 Southern schools
-2 Western
-1 to 2 Northeastern ones (not sure if you call UD northeastern).

FCS football is dead on the West Coast (only 5? full scholly FCS teams).
FCS football is dying in the southeast as far as publics go.

The stength is midwest/mtn west publics.

[bonarae]

If you’re going to include Boise St (moved up 1996) need to include Marshall (moved up 1997). That list is basically all publics except for Liberty:
-12 to 13 Southern schools
-2 Western
-1 to 2 Northeastern ones (not sure if you call UD northeastern).

FCS football is dead on the West Coast (only 5? full scholly FCS teams).
FCS football is dying in the southeast as far as publics go.

The stength is midwest/mtn west publics.

OK, did I get this list right?

West Coast
UC Davis
Sacramento State
Portland State
EWU
Cal Poly

San Diego Toreros play non-scholarship football in the PFL.

Only six west coast FCS teams all in all.

UD is mid-Atlantic I believe. They are still in the Northeast Census region too?

Alright, for comparison, here is the current list of playoff participating New England FCS Teams:
Maine
UNH
Holy Cross
Bryant
Rhody
CCSU
Sacred Heart
Merrimack (not yet come)
Stonehill (not yet come)

[kalm]

College football is changing and who knows where it ends up? I still think the big boys (SEC, Big 10,ACC, Big 12 and Notre Dame) will part ways with the other FBS conferences. From there I find it hard to say what happens to the rest of us. I wouldn't be surprised or against the current G5 and larger profile FCS programs combining. But who knows? I will say that where App is now has a strong 1AA feel to it. We play Marshall, Georgia Southern, JMU and Coastal in conference. That's like a tough playoff run in the old days!

All of this

[BlackFalkin]

FCS to FBS

Jacksonville State x
Delaware x
App State
Coastal Carolina x
Georgia Southern x
Georgia State x
Liberty x
Old Dominion x
James Madison (JMU) x
Sam Houston x
Kennesaw State x
Massachusetts (UMASS) x
Nevada x
Western Kentucky x
Missouri State x
Texas State
Boise State
Marshall

x Does not have a 30,000 seat stadium.

College football is changing and who knows where it ends up? I still think the big boys (SEC, Big 10,ACC, Big 12 and Notre Dame) will part ways with the other FBS conferences. From there I find it hard to say what happens to the rest of us. I wouldn't be surprised or against the current G5 and larger profile FCS programs combining. But who knows? I will say that where App is now has a strong 1AA feel to it. We play Marshall, Georgia Southern, JMU and Coastal in conference. That's like a tough playoff run in the old days!

All of this

That’s because 8 of the 14 teams in the Sun Belt transitioned from the FCS! The “tough playoff run in the old days” have been replaced by NDSU steamrolling everyone, with 9 National Championships since 2011, and SDSU with 2 consecutive championships in 2022 & 2023.

[AshevilleApp]

FCS to FBS

Jacksonville State x
Delaware x
App State
Coastal Carolina x
Georgia Southern x
Georgia State x
Liberty x
Old Dominion x
James Madison (JMU) x
Sam Houston x
Kennesaw State x
Massachusetts (UMASS) x
Nevada x
Western Kentucky x
Missouri State x
Texas State
Boise State
Marshall

x Does not have a 30,000 seat stadium.

All of this

That’s because 8 of the 14 teams in the Sun Belt transitioned from the FCS! The “tough playoff run in the old days” have been replaced by NDSU steamrolling everyone, with 9 National Championships since 2011, and SDSU with 2 consecutive championships in 2022 & 2023.

Yeah, the SB has been a haven for 1AA/FCS schools along with Conference USA. They've put together a pretty nice little football conference. Part of me misses the SOCON, but we're still in a pretty good place.

[dbackjon]

Chances are better that half or more of G5 conferences will be back in FCS + in 10 years than FCS dying.

[kalm]

Chances are better that half or more of G5 conferences will be back in FCS + in 10 years than FCS dying.

[AshevilleApp]

Chances are better that half or more of G5 conferences will be back in FCS + in 10 years than FCS dying.

If you mean a second level of D1 I agree, no matter what it's called. It's also likely that many smaller current FCS teams will move to D2 or D3. Maybe that's a good thing.

[UNI88]

Chances are better that half or more of G5 conferences will be back in FCS + in 10 years than FCS dying.

If you mean a second level of D1 I agree, no matter what it's called. It's also likely that many smaller current FCS teams will move to D2 or D3. Maybe that's a good thing.

A lot will depend on what the big boys do with the NCAA men's basketball tournament. If it stays close to what it currently is then schools will stick around so they have an opportunity to partake in the spoils. If the big boys make it their own invitational and exclude potential Cinderellas then the incentive to be D1 drops considerably.

[AshevilleApp]

If you mean a second level of D1 I agree, no matter what it's called. It's also likely that many smaller current FCS teams will move to D2 or D3. Maybe that's a good thing.

A lot will depend on what the big boys do with the NCAA men's basketball tournament. If it stays close to what it currently is then schools will stick around so they have an opportunity to partake in the spoils. If the big boys make it their own invitational and exclude potential Cinderellas then the incentive to be D1 drops considerably.

Good point. I'd be interested to see how much the basketball payout is for a one bid conference team.

[Gil Dobie]

Not the same teams as 1995, but it's not dying.

[UNI88]

Not the same teams as 1995, but it's not dying.

It's changing.

[AshevilleApp]

A lot will depend on what the big boys do with the NCAA men's basketball tournament. If it stays close to what it currently is then schools will stick around so they have an opportunity to partake in the spoils. If the big boys make it their own invitational and exclude potential Cinderellas then the incentive to be D1 drops considerably.

Good point. I'd be interested to see how much the basketball payout is for a one bid conference team.

And I guess another option is only being D2 or D3 for football, while staying D1 in other sports? Some schools are only D1 for hockey.

[UNI88]

Good point. I'd be interested to see how much the basketball payout is for a one bid conference team.

And I guess another option is only being D2 or D3 for football, while staying D1 in other sports? Some schools are only D1 for hockey.

I think a school can be D1 in 1 sport (or 1 men's & 1 women's sport) and D2 or D3 in all other sports but not vice versa.

NCAA tournament units mean payouts for men’s teams only. That will soon change.

The NCAA pays out 132 units per men’s tournament, one for every game played by a team. That means every squad that makes the tournament earns a unit for its conference.

Each unit is worth roughly $2 million. That money typically goes to the conference and is split among the schools in the conference. Some conferences split it equally others give an extra share to the team that earned the units. I believe the $2 million is spread out over 6 years. A final four run could mean $10 million for a conference.

The NCAA men's basketball tournament revenue is really the engine that funds smaller schools & conferences.

[BlackFalkin]

FCS to FBS

Jacksonville State x
Delaware x
App State
Coastal Carolina x
Georgia Southern x
Georgia State x
Liberty x
Old Dominion x
James Madison (JMU) x
Sam Houston x
Kennesaw State x
Massachusetts (UMASS) x
Nevada x
Western Kentucky x
Missouri State x
Texas State
Boise State
Marshall

x Does not have a 30,000 seat stadium.



That’s because 8 of the 14 teams in the Sun Belt transitioned from the FCS! The “tough playoff run in the old days” have been replaced by NDSU steamrolling everyone, with 9 National Championships since 2011, and SDSU with 2 consecutive championships in 2022 & 2023.

Yeah, the (Sun Belt Conference) has been a haven for 1AA/FCS schools along with Conference USA. They've put together a pretty nice little football conference. Part of me misses the SOCON, but we're still in a pretty good place.

Damn right App State is the poster child of a successful FCS to FBS transition. The Mountaineer Football Program has seen consistent success & growth while in the FBS. With Power 5 teams at home games, App State has gained a significant national presence in FBS College Football. I definitely agree they’re in a good place, and they’ve shown what’s possible for other FCS Programs with the potential to make that transition.

[SuperHornet]

While I do like what App State has done since taking down Michigan, I'd have to disagree with the "poster child" designation. I don't like App State or Liberty in the FBS, but Liberty has done more from the get-go in FBS than anybody since perhaps Marshall....

[kalm]

While I do like what App State has done since taking down Michigan, I'd have to disagree with the "poster child" designation. I don't like App State or Liberty in the FBS, but Liberty has done more from the get-go in FBS than anybody since perhaps Marshall....

SH, I saw a kid in a Cheney grocery store the other day with Pacific University Football on it. Black and orange.

[SuperHornet]

I know this will sound odd coming from a guy who still insists on directional designations for schools like SW Missouri State, SW Louisiana State, SW Texas State, etc., and the State designation for schools like Nicholls State, Troy State, Memphis State, etc., but this is one where I REALLY want to get things right, kalm. Pacific University is a small D-III school in Forest Grove, Oregon. They wear Boxer Red and Boxer Black, and are known as the Boxers.

University of the Pacific (where I went before I got to Sac State) is located in Stockton, CA, and is currently Division I-AAA. The Tigers play here, and, yes, they wear Orange and Black. This school is primarily known these days for basketball, water polo, and volleyball (championship days long dormant).

The big difference between the two schools is football: UOP dropped football in 1995 (while I was a 6th string walk-on who couldn't afford the then-$18K tuition, which is now something like $60K), while PU still has it. The school names are so similar that people have been known to call PU to congratulate them on UOP's NCAA Tournament bids (more of a "thing" when UOP was in the Big West; Gonzaga is too big a power in the WCC to allow that now), and UOP gets congratulatory calls when PU's football team makes the D-III playoffs.

Both schools are known for movies. Glory Days (a made-for-TV football movie starring Robert Conrad as a 50-year-old quarterback) and one of the Indiana Jones movies (the one where Jones escapes the co-eds by climbing out the window) were filmed at UOP. Zero Effect (starring Bill Pullman) and the TV series Pretty Little Liars: The Perfectionists were filmed at PU. Notable alumni at UOP include notorious sports agent Scott Boras, DB-turned-SB-winning-coach Pete Carroll, QB-turned-coach Hue Jackson, actress Janet Leigh, jazz musician Dave Brubeck, HOF Raiders QB Tom Flores, NASA astronaut Jose Hernandez. Current Cowboys Special Teams Coordinator John Fassel (son of NYG HC Jim Fassel) played for UOP during the last season in 1995 before transferring to Weber State. Other members of that '95 QB Room were Chad Fotheringham (father of Utah and LV Raiders TE Cole Fotheringham), World Games CEO Nick Sellers, Graham Leigh (took New Mexico to the Insight.com Bowl before playing in the original XFL), Gio Carmazzi (drafted by the 49ers the same year they picked up failure Jim Druckenmiller and sent to Europe), QBs Coach Mike Canales, and a guy you've all come to know and love (I hope) as Super Hornet. Some locally famous people have attended or graduated from PU, but the one that might ring a bell here would be Tim Hauck, who apparently spent his freshman year there before transferring to his better known digs in Missoula.

It's that confusion between the two athletic programs that prompts my concern about the actual designation. The controversies regarding the directionals are more about history rather than confusion with other programs for me....

[SuperHornet]

That said, kalm, I thank you for recognizing some of my history. Wherever you are, that seems on a par with a guy who recognized my Lodi letterman's jacket in the Navy Nuclear Field "A" School parking lot in Orlando in early '91. Most people that far away won't recognize the school by ANY name....

[kalm]

That said, kalm, I thank you for recognizing some of my history. Wherever you are, that seems on a par with a guy who recognized my Lodi letterman's jacket in the Navy Nuclear Field "A" School parking lot in Orlando in early '91. Most people that far away won't recognize the school by ANY name....

You got it buddy. I stand corrected and I enjoyed your historical info on the University of the Pacific. This kid’s shirt was definitely black and orange.

[AshevilleApp]

Yeah, the (Sun Belt Conference) has been a haven for 1AA/FCS schools along with Conference USA. They've put together a pretty nice little football conference. Part of me misses the SOCON, but we're still in a pretty good place.

Damn right App State is the poster child of a successful FCS to FBS transition. The Mountaineer Football Program has seen consistent success & growth while in the FBS. With Power 5 teams at home games, App State has gained a significant national presence in FBS College Football. I definitely agree they’re in a good place, and they’ve shown what’s possible for other FCS Programs with the potential to make that transition.

Yeah, we've been hot,hot,hot. I read yesterday that App now has a home and home with Boise State in 2025 (Boise) and 2027 (Boone). I may have to take a road trip to Idaho next year.

[dal4018]

All those powerhouse D2 schools need to start stepping up to the FCS