Yankees/Phillies World Series....

[bandl]

Not that I need your approval or anything, but WTF are you talking about? Jeter has had at least 200 hits in four of his last five seasons, and has hit at least .300 in each of the last five seasons, including .343. (2006); .322 (2007); and .334 (2009). His worst season was 2008 when he hit exactly .300.

I don't see a downward trend at all prior to this year.

The master of spin is at it again: Try and stay with me here, Joe. I'm going to post 2006/2007/2008 in THAT order:

Runs: 118/102/88
Hits: 214/206/179
HR: 14/12/11
RBI: 97/73/69
SB: 34/15/11
BA: .343/.322/.300
OBP: .417/.388/.363
SLG: .483/.452/.408
OPS: .900/.840/.771


Yep. NO DISCERNABLE TREND THERE, RIGHT?

every single meaningful statistic he declined for three consecutive years. If you'd like to retract your last statement, I'll allow it.

You forgot Average
(and I'll use douchebagJoe's numbers)
2006 - .343
2007 - .322
2008 - .300

[wideright82]

The master of spin is at it again: Try and stay with me here, Joe. I'm going to post 2006/2007/2008 in THAT order:

Runs: 118/102/88
Hits: 214/206/179
HR: 14/12/11
RBI: 97/73/69
SB: 34/15/11
BA: .343/.322/.300
OBP: .417/.388/.363
SLG: .483/.452/.408
OPS: .900/.840/.771


Yep. NO DISCERNABLE TREND THERE, RIGHT?

every single meaningful statistic he declined for three consecutive years. If you'd like to retract your last statement, I'll allow it.

You forgot Average
(and I'll use douchebagJoe's numbers)
2006 - .343
2007 - .322
2008 - .300

you said somethign about happy hour i believe?

[AZGrizFan]

The master of spin is at it again: Try and stay with me here, Joe. I'm going to post 2006/2007/2008 in THAT order:

Runs: 118/102/88
Hits: 214/206/179
HR: 14/12/11
RBI: 97/73/69
SB: 34/15/11
BA: .343/.322/.300
OBP: .417/.388/.363
SLG: .483/.452/.408
OPS: .900/.840/.771


Yep. NO DISCERNABLE TREND THERE, RIGHT?

every single meaningful statistic he declined for three consecutive years. If you'd like to retract your last statement, I'll allow it.

You forgot Average
(and I'll use douchebagJoe's numbers)
2006 - .343
2007 - .322
2008 - .300

[bandl]

You forgot Average
(and I'll use douchebagJoe's numbers)
2006 - .343
2007 - .322
2008 - .300

you said somethign about happy hour i believe?

No, not today...

[bandl]

You forgot Average
(and I'll use douchebagJoe's numbers)
2006 - .343
2007 - .322
2008 - .300

I kill me!

Maybe I should start drinking now.

Actually, I just wanted to reiterate the fact.

[wideright82]

you said somethign about happy hour i believe?

No, not today...

It's ok. Even clenz gets things wrong every now and again.... so we can't be all perfect, now can we?

[bandl]

No, not today...

It's ok. Even clenz gets things wrong every now and again.... so we can't be all perfect, now can we?

No he doesn't. HE DOES NOT.

[AZGrizFan]

JOE!!!!

COME OUT, COME OUT, WHEREVER YOU ARE!!!!

[JoltinJoe]

Not that I need your approval or anything, but WTF are you talking about? Jeter has had at least 200 hits in four of his last five seasons, and has hit at least .300 in each of the last five seasons, including .343. (2006); .322 (2007); and .334 (2009). His worst season was 2008 when he hit exactly .300.

I don't see a downward trend at all prior to this year.

The master of spin is at it again: Try and stay with me here, Joe. I'm going to post 2006/2007/2008 in THAT order:

Runs: 118/102/88
Hits: 214/206/179
HR: 14/12/11
RBI: 97/73/69
SB: 34/15/11
BA: .343/.322/.300
OBP: .417/.388/.363
SLG: .483/.452/.408
OPS: .900/.840/.771


Yep. NO DISCERNABLE TREND THERE, RIGHT?

every single meaningful statistic he declined for three consecutive years. If you'd like to retract your last statement, I'll allow it.

Dude, you are grasping ... you are talking one down season, followed by this year when he hit .334. Four of the last five seasons, over 200 hits, averages of .334, .322, and .343 during those years.

What gives your numbers some appearance of a decline is that 2006 was an exceptional year for Jeter; much like his 1999 season.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

What gives your numbers some appearance of a decline is that 2006 was an exceptional year for Jeter; much like his 1999 season.

So, back to the original point of this whole discussion - Jeter has an exceptional year in 2006 and bounces back with an exceptional year in 2009. Rollins, on the other hand, had an exceptional year in 2007, but his number in 2008 and 2009, according to you, demonstrate what Phillie fans should expect out of JRoll going forward.

So why is it that Jeter can have an exceptional year, followed by less exceptional years, but Rollins can't?

[JoltinJoe]

What gives your numbers some appearance of a decline is that 2006 was an exceptional year for Jeter; much like his 1999 season.

So, back to the original point of this whole discussion - Jeter has an exceptional year in 2006 and bounces back with an exceptional year in 2009. Rollins, on the other hand, had an exceptional year in 2007, but his number in 2008 and 2009, according to you, demonstrate what Phillie fans should expect out of JRoll going forward.

So why is it that Jeter can have an exceptional year, followed by less exceptional years, but Rollins can't?

What made Rollins' year in 2006 exceptional were the power numbers. He hit 30 HRS in his MVP season and drove in 94 RBIs. I don't think it is likely he is going to reach those levels again.

Note also Jeter had an excellent season in 2007. We are talking about one down year for Jeter. One down year doesn't make a trend.

[Ivytalk]

TTBF, you're my hero!

I'm hurt. The joke about UPenn being a football factory was made just for you.

Point taken. However, given the makeup of the Penn student body, there are probably more Yankee fans than Phillies fans on Locust Walk!

[JoltinJoe]

I'm hurt. The joke about UPenn being a football factory was made just for you.

Point taken. However, given the makeup of the Penn student body, there are probably more Yankee fans than Phillies fans on Locust Walk!

That explains why Penn is a winner.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

What made Rollins' year in 2006 exceptional were the power numbers. He hit 30 HRS in his MVP season and drove in 94 RBIs. I don't think it is likely he is going to reach those levels again.

Well, Jimmy had 25 Hr's in 2006 and 21 this year. I'm not sure that is a sound conclusion.

[BlueHen86]

I think these teams are very close in many areas.

The Yankees should have a big edge in the bullpen, their closer is the greatest of all time and has been clutch in the playoffs before. It would be an understatement to say that Lidge has been shaky this year.

I think the Phillies have an edge on defense, they don't make many errors and have better range up the middle.

The Phillies also may get an extra boost because they are the defending champs.

Should be a close series. I'll make the homer pick and say Phils in 6.

[CatMom]

I hate cheez whiz

Ok, so maybe I'm used to pizza in SJ, where it actually is made right and not from a chain. You think Philly Pizza is bad, try Texas

Having a song written about you doesn't make you all that. Think about that one.

To be honest, I'm a Philly fan so I defend them. Like it or not. I'm really not a big fan of cities, per se. I grew up in farm country and avoid cities when I can. Don't really live in Austin and avoid heading down there as much as I can.

You're really having issues with this Joe. I can send you one of my vicodins if you like.

and I still don't like Sinatra, deal with it.

(and we love pulling your chain. I can see you getting pinstripes, head to toe, as you read these posts)

You think this bothers me? Really?

Actually, no, I don't and didn't. It was all just messin' around.......

[CatMom]

Ryan Howard has been in the majors 5 years. Come on folks, he's just getting started.

MVP, LCS MVP, World Series MVP, Rookie of the Year, Silver Slugger Award, Hank Aaron Award, TSN Player of the Year, Josh Gibson Award (x2), Fastest in history to 200 HRs, .990 Fielding Pct., 2 time All-Star

I'll take it.

[AZGrizFan]

Try and stay with me here, Joe. I'm going to post 2006/2007/2008 in THAT order:

Runs: 118/102/88
Hits: 214/206/179
HR: 14/12/11
RBI: 97/73/69
SB: 34/15/11
BA: .343/.322/.300
OBP: .417/.388/.363
SLG: .483/.452/.408
OPS: .900/.840/.771
Yep. NO DISCERNABLE TREND THERE, RIGHT?

every single meaningful statistic he declined for three consecutive years. If you'd like to retract your last statement, I'll allow it.

Dude, you are grasping ... you are talking one down season, followed by this year when he hit .334. Four of the last five seasons, over 200 hits, averages of .334, .322, and .343 during those years.

What gives your numbers some appearance of a decline is that 2006 was an exceptional year for Jeter; much like his 1999 season.

Joe----you are cornered and you KNOW it. The issue isn't whether a year was "down" or not. YOUR argument was that Rollins 2009 is about what Phillie fans could expect and that the GOOD years were abberations. I used YOUR argument against you and you got beat---fair and square. If the argument (despite how "good" or "bad" the numbers are) can't be used in Jeter's case, it sure as HELL can't be used in Rollins' case. To watch you try to spin this any other way is really just embarrassing for you.

[AZGrizFan]

What made Rollins' year in 2006 exceptional were the power numbers. He hit 30 HRS in his MVP season and drove in 94 RBIs. I don't think it is likely he is going to reach those levels again.

Note also Jeter had an excellent season in 2007. We are talking about one down year for Jeter. One down year doesn't make a trend.

Jeter's 2007 was markedly worse than 2006. And 2008 was markedly worse than 2007. In 2009, he went on the juice and got things straightened out.

But he's a Yankmee, so he CAN'T age, right?

[JoltinJoe]

Dude, you are grasping ... you are talking one down season, followed by this year when he hit .334. Four of the last five seasons, over 200 hits, averages of .334, .322, and .343 during those years.

What gives your numbers some appearance of a decline is that 2006 was an exceptional year for Jeter; much like his 1999 season.

Joe----you are cornered and you KNOW it. The issue isn't whether a year was "down" or not. YOUR argument was that Rollins 2009 is about what Phillie fans could expect and that the GOOD years were abberations. I used YOUR argument against you and you got beat---fair and square. If the argument (despite how "good" or "bad" the numbers are) can't be used in Jeter's case, it sure as HELL can't be used in Rollins' case. To watch you try to spin this any other way is really just embarrassing for you.

What's embarrassing for you is that you called Rollins/Jeter a wash THIS YEAR, even though Jeter's OPS was 150 points higher. When you were called on that statement, you began to the spin.

You then compared overall career numbers, trying to suggest that Jeter's and Rollins' average season numbers were similar, ignoring the difference between a career.274 hitter (Rollins) and a career .317 hitter (Jeter) -- which in and of itself tells you why Jeter is ticketed as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

You then tried to suggest that Jeter was on a donward trend, staring with his exceptional 2006 season and drawing comparisons to his following two seasons. I then put those numbers in the context of the last five seaons, proving that 2005, 2007, and 2009 have been typical "great" years for Jeter; 2006 was exceptional even by Jeter's ridiculously high standards, and that he had one single "down" season in 2008.

And left unchallenged is the observation that Rollins' MVP season (which I was mistakenly said earlier was 2006, but was relly 2007) in which he had 30 HRs and 94 RBIs, has proven to be unchracteristic for him. In fact, hs slugging % in 2007 is over 50 points higher than his next best season.

And after taking this beating, you have the temerity to claim victory. I just don't get it why baseball fans, otherwise knowledegable, become complete idiots when it comes to Derek Jeter. At just 35, he is about 250 hits short of 3,000. He is ahead of Pete Rose's hit pace. Give the guy his due.

Meanwhile, back to the point you started with, Jeter's BA this year was 38 points higher than Rollins' OBP and you called that a push.

[JoltinJoe]

What made Rollins' year in 2006 exceptional were the power numbers. He hit 30 HRS in his MVP season and drove in 94 RBIs. I don't think it is likely he is going to reach those levels again.

Note also Jeter had an excellent season in 2007. We are talking about one down year for Jeter. One down year doesn't make a trend.

Jeter's 2007 was markedly worse than 2006. And 2008 was markedly worse than 2007. In 2009, he went on the juice and got things straightened out.

But he's a Yankmee, so he CAN'T age, right?

Jeter's in better shape this year than he has been in prior seasons, even coming to learn how to overcome the only chink in his otherwise superlative defensive game -- his lateral movement to his left. Jeter's defensive numbers actually dramatically improved this year due to better conditioning. na dhis new-found ability to get to more balls up the middle.

How Jeter Got Younger at 35

You can get younger in your mid-30s. When I was about 34, I started a martial arts training/boxing workourt program. It was the hardest and best workout I ever did. I was the oldest guy in the gym by like over 10 years and when I started; the kids made fun of the old guy who couldn't keep up. But I was with them within a few weeks. The following spring, when I was 35, I was still playing in an over 30 league, and my stats got markedly better. At 36, I hit over .400 -- which I didn't even come close to in high school. The numbers I put upin my late 30s were better than what I did in my early 30s. Then, I got married, had kids, and that was the end of my training program.

[JoltinJoe]

What made Rollins' year in 2006 exceptional were the power numbers. He hit 30 HRS in his MVP season and drove in 94 RBIs. I don't think it is likely he is going to reach those levels again.

Well, Jimmy had 25 Hr's in 2006 and 21 this year. I'm not sure that is a sound conclusion.

Sorry, I was referring to his 2007 season (30 HRS, 94 RBIs, and .531 slugging) and the reference to 2006 was a mistake.

But after some thought, I am going to flip-flop on my statement that Rollins is not likely to make the Hall of Fame.

When I said that, I did something I often criticize others for doing -- judging modern Hall of Fame potential by reference to questional statistical standards established in this era, which are likely to prove unreliable.

I think it is likely that, in future years, Hall of Fame voters are more likely to assess a player like Rollins, whose achievements are legitimate, by reference to historical standards, not modern standards, due to the steroid inflation of this era's statistics.

If Rollins continues to be a 15-20 HR, 75 RBI, 100 runs, .280 hitter with 30-40 SBs, and to play fine defense, he will compare favorably to shortstops already enshrined at Cooperstown, and in a number of cases, possess even better numbers.

So I think I made an unfair, premature judgment abour Rollins.

[JoltinJoe]

whatifsports.com played 10,001 computer simulations of the World Series, with the Yankees winning 72.3% of the time, most often in a 6-game series. Take this for what it is worth -- which is nothing.

Picks and Predictions from 10,001 simulations of the 2009 World Series

[93henfan]

whatifsports.com played 10,001 computer simulations of the World Series, with the Yankees winning 72.3% of the time, most often in a 6-game series. Take this for what it is worth -- which is nothing.

Picks and Predictions from 10,001 simulations of the 2009 World Series

I think we'll all concede that the Yankees have better raw data. Better W/L in the regular seson. Better pitching numbers for sure. Probably better batting numbers with the DH (maybe even without). The Yanks certainly had better competition pushing them in the AL, while the Phils were able to highstep through late Aug and Sep.

The computers pick based on this raw data. Too bad computers can't compute "clutch".

[Gil Dobie]

Sign of the times

Old Yankee Stadium: The House that Ruth Built
New Yankee Stadium: The House that Roids Built