'Bout Time For A "Religion Sucks" Thread, Ain't It?

[D1B]

I saw the PBS special on String Theory, you're right - utterly amazing stuff.

As far as its theological/philosophical orgins, I pretty sure the Eastern/Asian mystics beat the Greeks by hundreds, if not a thousand or more years.

You're right, there are amazing parallels between some religous thought and physics, particularly subatomic physics.

Physics isn't about sinners and saints
Physics isn't about Heaven and Hell
Physics isn't about an eternal afterlife

The core of physics is based on a unified symmetry: The Nature of Space Time & Matter

This triangle is the building blocks for quantum theory and special relativity... a mastery of The characteristics of Matter - The Nature of Space = Physical Law

Unification is the next step... The CERN project strives to close the unification loop

All of this has nothing to do with man's perception of Good and Evil or things as small and meaningless as what ones philosophy on afterlife is... That's crap to be argued by Televangelists

CERN is a genuine search for truth and "What is"...
We're moving baby steps away from myth and legend one day at a time
But it's not an attempt to Refute anything - it's about the search for truth - not disproving anything

There is nothing for anybody to be fearful of...

No shit, Commander Obvious. But there are numerous parallels between modern physics and religion none the less. Here's a wonderful book precisely on this subject:

First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Review
"A brilliant best-seller. . . . Lucidly analyzes the tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism to show their striking parallels with the latest discoveries in cyclotrons."—New York Magazine

"A pioneering book of real value and wide appeal."—Washington Post

"Fritjof Capra, in The Tao of Physics , seeks . . . an integration of the mathematical world view of modern physics and the mystical visions of Buddha and Krishna. Where others have failed miserably in trying to unite these seemingly different world views, Capra, a high-energy theorist, has succeeded admirably. I strongly recommend the book to both layman and scientist."—V. N. Mansfield, Physics Today

"I have been reading the book with amazement and the greatest interest, recommending it to everyone I meet, and as often as possible, in my lectures. I think [Capra has] done a magnificent and extremely important job."—Joseph Campbell


Next.....

[JoltinJoe]

Physics isn't about sinners and saints
Physics isn't about Heaven and Hell
Physics isn't about an eternal afterlife

The core of physics is based on a unified symmetry: The Nature of Space Time & Matter

This triangle is the building blocks for quantum theory and special relativity... a mastery of The characteristics of Matter - The Nature of Space = Physical Law

Unification is the next step... The CERN project strives to close the unification loop

All of this has nothing to do with man's perception of Good and Evil or things as small and meaningless as what ones philosophy on afterlife is... That's crap to be argued by Televangelists

CERN is a genuine search for truth and "What is"...
We're moving baby steps away from myth and legend one day at a time
But it's not an attempt to Refute anything - it's about the search for truth - not disproving anything

There is nothing for anybody to be fearful of...

No ****, Commander Obvious. But there are numerous parallels between modern physics and religion none the less. Here's a wonderful book precisely on this subject:

First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Review
"A brilliant best-seller. . . . Lucidly analyzes the tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism to show their striking parallels with the latest discoveries in cyclotrons."—New York Magazine

"A pioneering book of real value and wide appeal."—Washington Post

"Fritjof Capra, in The Tao of Physics , seeks . . . an integration of the mathematical world view of modern physics and the mystical visions of Buddha and Krishna. Where others have failed miserably in trying to unite these seemingly different world views, Capra, a high-energy theorist, has succeeded admirably. I strongly recommend the book to both layman and scientist."—V. N. Mansfield, Physics Today

"I have been reading the book with amazement and the greatest interest, recommending it to everyone I meet, and as often as possible, in my lectures. I think [Capra has] done a magnificent and extremely important job."—Joseph Campbell


Next.....

I find it curious that you posted this. Do you really see and accept parrallels between physics and theology/philisophy? Not for nothing, but this point, as well as your earlier recommendation to read Kierkegarrd -- a Christian philosopher and theologian -- seems to represent some evolving in your outlook on things.

[D1B]

Religion Sucks.:

"Man formed God with the image of good, and man followed God with the image in the mirror."

...with disastrous results. Man is only now beginning to realize the folly of past generations and forge ahead to a new era where critical thinking replaces dogma and blind obedience to ghosts.

[D1B]

No ****, Commander Obvious. But there are numerous parallels between modern physics and religion none the less. Here's a wonderful book precisely on this subject:

First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Review
"A brilliant best-seller. . . . Lucidly analyzes the tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism to show their striking parallels with the latest discoveries in cyclotrons."—New York Magazine

"A pioneering book of real value and wide appeal."—Washington Post

"Fritjof Capra, in The Tao of Physics , seeks . . . an integration of the mathematical world view of modern physics and the mystical visions of Buddha and Krishna. Where others have failed miserably in trying to unite these seemingly different world views, Capra, a high-energy theorist, has succeeded admirably. I strongly recommend the book to both layman and scientist."—V. N. Mansfield, Physics Today

"I have been reading the book with amazement and the greatest interest, recommending it to everyone I meet, and as often as possible, in my lectures. I think [Capra has] done a magnificent and extremely important job."—Joseph Campbell


Next.....

I find it curious that you posted this. Do you really see and accept parrallels between physics and theology/philisophy?

Why Joe? I've agreed with you throughout this thread. Parrallels not so much with Jahweh-based religions but with eastern mysticism.

IMO, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about subatomic physics and the ideas of our thinking ancestors.

[JoltinJoe]

I find it curious that you posted this. Do you really see and accept parrallels between physics and theology/philisophy?

Why Joe? I've agreed with you throughout this thread. Parrallels not so much with Jahweh-based religions but with eastern mysticism.

IMO, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about subatomic physics and the ideas of our thinking ancestors.

Becuase in the past, I thought you were willing to go no further than, if there is a creative force imperceptibnle to our senses, you saw it as a impersonal force uninterested in human affairs. But your reference to Eastern philosophical and theological traditions, and your approving statements of Kierkegarrd, suggest to me that you are at least thinking that this force may, in fact, be a personal God.

[D1B]

Why Joe? I've agreed with you throughout this thread. Parrallels not so much with Jahweh-based religions but with eastern mysticism.

IMO, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about subatomic physics and the ideas of our thinking ancestors.

Becuase in the past, I thought you were willing to go no further than, if there is a creative force imperceptibnle to our senses, you saw it as a impersonal force uninterested in human affairs. But your reference to Eastern philosophical and theological traditions, and your approving statements of Kierkegarrd, suggest to me that you are at least thinking that this force may, in fact, be a personal God.

Joe, it's 7:40am, I gotta run to work. I look forward to picking this up later. Good discussion, finally.

[Cap'n Cat]

D1B - good idea to stay at clenz's place Saturday night. Can't see driving back to Minnesota.

[MSUDuo]

Just thought I would laugh at the guy who brought Genesis 1 into question and the subject of God creating light before He created the sun and stars. So....Because we don't/can't comprehend light without the sun, that makes God a moron and the Bible a bunch of BS from the beginning? Considering God spoke and it was, He can create light without a sun.

Dude, the god portrayed in the bible is utterly impossible. The reference to the light absurdity is one of hundreds that appear in Genesis. Genesis is an awefully good read, but it is what it is - one of thousands of man made myths to explain our beginnnings. BTW, according to your logic, your god also created evil and suffering.


Joltin Joe is right, the god or life force described by our philosophic forebearers, especially the eastern mystics, makes much more sense to us humans.

Utterly impossible by whose standards? Man's? That is your argument? Again, God spoke and it was. I don't think anything can be consider absurd by His standards. Actually, I know nothing can.

If Genesis is such a good read, how about you go read it again and tell me who "created" evil and suffering. God didn't "create" it. He handed it out because man earned it.

[Skjellyfetti]

Did man earn it by eating the magic apple?

[clenz]

There are things that live with no aide from the sun. I would think that oxygen and water would be the giver of life....

Clenz, the Captain and I are staying at your place on Saturday night. Make sure you have plenty of beer, food and porn for us. Oh, beds too. If you and TBH have to get a hotel for the night to make room for us, make sure you leave a key in the mailbox.

Thanks, man.

We have an extra bed down stairs, and a futon that folds into a bed, and a really big chair that is amazing to sleep in. We have 3 computers, and video on demand, so porn shouldn't be an issue. Beer, well I suppose I can buy more, what would you like? Food, well that you will have to do on your own.


When i talked to cap last night he didn't say you were coming too, so that is good to hear. When are you guys getting into town?

[ASUMountaineer]

Did man earn it by eating the magic apple?

I hope the apple I brought for lunch today is magical.

[MSUDuo]

Did man earn it by eating the magic apple?

He earned it through disobedience.

[D1B]

Clenz, the Captain and I are staying at your place on Saturday night. Make sure you have plenty of beer, food and porn for us. Oh, beds too. If you and TBH have to get a hotel for the night to make room for us, make sure you leave a key in the mailbox.

Thanks, man.

We have an extra bed down stairs, and a futon that folds into a bed, and a really big chair that is amazing to sleep in. We have 3 computers, and video on demand, so porn shouldn't be an issue. Beer, well I suppose I can buy more, what would you like? Food, well that you will have to do on your own.


When i talked to cap last night he didn't say you were coming too, so that is good to hear. When are you guys getting into town?

Thanks Clenz. I was kidding of course, but we may take you up on your generous offer.

Cap'n says he'll be there by 1pm, which means 2-3pm. I plan on getting into town by noon.

Look forward to meeting you in person.

[D1B]

Dude, the god portrayed in the bible is utterly impossible. The reference to the light absurdity is one of hundreds that appear in Genesis. Genesis is an awefully good read, but it is what it is - one of thousands of man made myths to explain our beginnnings. BTW, according to your logic, your god also created evil and suffering.


Joltin Joe is right, the god or life force described by our philosophic forebearers, especially the eastern mystics, makes much more sense to us humans.

Utterly impossible by whose standards? Man's? That is your argument? Again, God spoke and it was. I don't think anything can be consider absurd by His standards. Actually, I know nothing can.

If Genesis is such a good read, how about you go read it again and tell me who "created" evil and suffering. God didn't "create" it. He handed it out because man earned it.

Who was god speakin to?

[clenz]

We have an extra bed down stairs, and a futon that folds into a bed, and a really big chair that is amazing to sleep in. We have 3 computers, and video on demand, so porn shouldn't be an issue. Beer, well I suppose I can buy more, what would you like? Food, well that you will have to do on your own.


When i talked to cap last night he didn't say you were coming too, so that is good to hear. When are you guys getting into town?

Thanks Clenz. I was kidding of course, but we may take you up on your generous offer.

Cap'n says he'll be there by 1pm, which means 2-3pm. I plan on getting into town by noon.

Look forward to meeting you in person.

Cap has my number, let me know when you get in. I was sheduled to work till 2, but with my hand my schedule changed so I may be off earlier.

[Chizzang]

No shit, Commander Obvious. But there are numerous parallels between modern physics and religion none the less. Here's a wonderful book precisely on this subject:

First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Review
"A brilliant best-seller. . . . Lucidly analyzes the tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism to show their striking parallels with the latest discoveries in cyclotrons."—New York Magazine

"A pioneering book of real value and wide appeal."—Washington Post

"Fritjof Capra, in The Tao of Physics , seeks . . . an integration of the mathematical world view of modern physics and the mystical visions of Buddha and Krishna. Where others have failed miserably in trying to unite these seemingly different world views, Capra, a high-energy theorist, has succeeded admirably. I strongly recommend the book to both layman and scientist."—V. N. Mansfield, Physics Today

"I have been reading the book with amazement and the greatest interest, recommending it to everyone I meet, and as often as possible, in my lectures. I think [Capra has] done a magnificent and extremely important job."—Joseph Campbell


Next.....

Well I'll be interested to read what you have to say regarding physics and the nature of God - preferably something that's not entirely "cut & paste" from a book review - such as every word from the above post...

Seriously - every word of your post from above is cut and paste...

[D1B]

No shit, Commander Obvious. But there are numerous parallels between modern physics and religion none the less. Here's a wonderful book precisely on this subject:

First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Review
"A brilliant best-seller. . . . Lucidly analyzes the tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism to show their striking parallels with the latest discoveries in cyclotrons."—New York Magazine

"A pioneering book of real value and wide appeal."—Washington Post

"Fritjof Capra, in The Tao of Physics , seeks . . . an integration of the mathematical world view of modern physics and the mystical visions of Buddha and Krishna. Where others have failed miserably in trying to unite these seemingly different world views, Capra, a high-energy theorist, has succeeded admirably. I strongly recommend the book to both layman and scientist."—V. N. Mansfield, Physics Today

"I have been reading the book with amazement and the greatest interest, recommending it to everyone I meet, and as often as possible, in my lectures. I think [Capra has] done a magnificent and extremely important job."—Joseph Campbell


Next.....

Well I'll be interested to read what you have to say regarding physics and the nature of God - preferably something that's not entirely "cut & paste" from a book review - such as every word from the above post...

Seriously - every word of your post from above is cut and paste...

Quit repeating yourself, Rain Man. My post was primarily about the book, so what? I have a life and am not going to compose a review for your stupid ass, so I found one, on Amazon. Fuck off.

[Chizzang]

Quit repeating yourself, Rain Man. My post was primarily about the book, so what? I have a life and am not going to compose a review for your stupid ass, so I found one, on Amazon. Fuck off.

I'm just here to learn from the resident Zen Physics Master... lead on oh great one

[D1B]

Quit repeating yourself, Rain Man. My post was primarily about the book, so what? I have a life and am not going to compose a review for your stupid ass, so I found one, on Amazon. Fuck off.

I'm just here to learn from the resident Zen Physics Master... lead on oh great one

Go fuck yourself Cleets. Unlike others, I aint arrogant enough to claim I know the nature of god or the nature of our beginnings. I do not believe in a personal god.

I think there is something though. There has to be. A force. A power of some type that's in or actually is everything, animate or not. I agree with whoever said the answer, if there is one, will be found in physics, not in a church.

I appreciate the beauty, organic nature and consistency of some Eastern thought, especially ideas related balance, unity and interconnectedness, synthesis of opposites, duality, yin and yang, nirvana and so on. Most of these having direct parrallels to modern physics, sociology and ecology.

[Chizzang]

I'm just here to learn from the resident Zen Physics Master... lead on oh great one

Go fuck yourself Cleets. Unlike others, I aint arrogant enough to claim I know the nature of god or the nature of our beginnings. I do not believe in a personal god.

I think there is something though. There has to be. A force. A power of some type that's in or actually is everything, animate or not. I agree with whoever said the answer, if there is one, will be found in physics, not in a church.

I appreciate the beauty, organic nature and consistency of some Eastern thought, especially ideas related balance, unity and interconnectedness, synthesis of opposites, duality, yin and yang, nirvana and so on. Most of these having direct parrallels to modern physics, sociology and ecology.

I agree with every part of that post... (can I still be an arrogant dick-head though..?)

[D1B]

Go fuck yourself Cleets. Unlike others, I aint arrogant enough to claim I know the nature of god or the nature of our beginnings. I do not believe in a personal god.

I think there is something though. There has to be. A force. A power of some type that's in or actually is everything, animate or not. I agree with whoever said the answer, if there is one, will be found in physics, not in a church.

I appreciate the beauty, organic nature and consistency of some Eastern thought, especially ideas related balance, unity and interconnectedness, synthesis of opposites, duality, yin and yang, nirvana and so on. Most of these having direct parrallels to modern physics, sociology and ecology.

I agree with every part of that post... (can I still be an arrogant dick-head though..?)

There's only one arrogant dickhead, me.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

D!B meets JoltinJoe for the 1st time.

[youtube][/youtube]

[D1B]

D!B meets JoltinJoe for the 1st time.

[youtube][/youtube]

Ursus, awesome TPB clips!

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I knew you'd like it.

I'm watching a few clips on youtube and I left you another one in the clenz home invasion thread that fucking cracks me up as well.

[D1B]

D!B meets JoltinJoe for the 1st time.

[youtube][/youtube]

There's no doubt in my mind Joltin Joe is a stand up cool motherfucker. I hope to meet him soon.