What Will It Take To Save America.....?

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Col Hogan
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by Col Hogan »

RobsPics wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: And cannot be wiped out by legislative edict...

But racism has been wiped out by legislative edict...not 100% though, just in areas where the government has jurisdiction over peoples' actions.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I bet you believe that... :rofl:

I served 35 years in the military, where the government has jurisdiction over people's actions, as you put it...there is racism in the military as there is in society...the rules just prevent it from being institutionalized...so are you proposing our society be run like the military... :roll:

Otherwise...

I can see it now.....

"Mr President, with this legislation, we will wipe out racism in our generation"...


Try again... :coffee:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by travelinman67 »

Col Hogan wrote:
RobsPics wrote:
The whole purpose of hate crime legislation is to identify the reason why a crime was committed.
Why does a reason need to be identified??? A beating is a beating...the sentence should be the same no matter what the reason...unless we want to establish a special class of people who get extra special treatment...
Friends of Obama...

...hell, they get their intellectual "asses" kicked every day.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by Cap'n Cat »

travelinman67 wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Why does a reason need to be identified??? A beating is a beating...the sentence should be the same no matter what the reason...unless we want to establish a special class of people who get extra special treatment...
Friends of Obama...

...hell, they get their intellectual "asses" kicked every day.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Haliburton, Cheney!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by travelinman67 »

RobsPics wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: And cannot be wiped out by legislative edict...
But racism has been wiped out by legislative edict...not 100% though, just in areas where the government has jurisdiction over peoples' actions.
Rob...

...so young and naive.

I'm not condoning racism, but I can GUARANTEE that racism is alive and well, even in matters in which "the government's" hand guides the process.

I've worked with companies executing, or participated in contracts, administered by Fed, State and Local governments, and despite all the set asides and regulations imposed to ensure benefits to minorities, I repeatedly witness incidents wherein discrimination effects decisions made by everyone from the line supervisors and project managers all the way up to the bank management charged with overseeing funding.

Racism has been EXACERBATED by the incessant media and governmental efforts to identify racial/cultural differences.

In many of the cases I've witnessed, the motivation for discrimination arose from prior incidents of reverse discrimination imposed upon the offender: Educational, contractual (business) opportunities LOST merely because the offender was not a minority. Those incidents are frequent everytime the government becomes involved. The offender then rationalizes their actions as a means of "leveling the playing field".

This is VERY real in America today, and for the foreseeable future, so long as the government continues to impose laws and regulatory control which enforce reverse discrimination.

And, BTW, the vast majority of racial discrimination is not manifested in "violent" or "assaultive" action, but through selection, hiring and job (opportunity) assignment.

Now, that I've got your blood pressure up...

...the other shoe drops.

I've witnessed an equal percentage of discrimatory "penetration" by minority decisionmakers, who allow race to influence their decisions: This is not a "whites versus XXXXX" equation. The door of discrimination swings both ways.

I must say than I'm rather shocked that any thinking person would have the temerity to profess that "racism is fixed where government is involved in the process"...

...with the increasing influence of special interests and political demographic "gerrymandering" on legislative and regulatory decisions over the past century, the cases where "government works better" than private sector have become increasingly RARE: Statements to the contrary, IMHO, are the beliefs of wishful theoretical academicians, or fools, rather than the experienced pragmatist.

:coffee:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by travelinman67 »

Cap'n Cat wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:
Friends of Obama...

...hell, they get their intellectual "asses" kicked every day.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Haliburton, Cheney!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Cap'n, D1B!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by clenz »

JayJ79 wrote:
clenz wrote: A 15 year old is too a full American citizen.... :nod:
...
They can not vote, but that doesn't make the not a citizen.
They can't vote. They can't sign a legal contract. They can't legally consent to anything. They aren't held fully responsible for their actions (i.e. breaking the law, etc.).

Thus they aren't full citizens, IMO.
Good thing your opinion doesn't mean shit, because they are full American citizens. Have you ever saw a minor deported because he/she wasn't an American citizen. Juveniles are head accountable for their actions...you know, the whole juvenile detention, juvenile court, being tried as adult thing... Hell, there are adults who can't vote because they aren't registered. Only about 50% of eligible American's are actually registered to vote. That leaves about 50% of American's who can't vote.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by clenz »

This whole thread reminds me of two things....One by George Carlin, the other I'm not sure who wrote it but both Carlin and Rooney were falsely attributed to it.

Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.
I like big cars, big boats, big motorcycles, big houses and big campfires.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some governmental stooge with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts for squirting out babies.

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion.

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens. Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability.

I know what sex is, and there are not varying degrees of it. If I received sex from one of my subordinates in my office, it wouldn't be a private matter or my personal business. I would be "FIRED" immediately!

I believe that if you are selling me a milk shake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry self if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines.

I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation recount votes when needed. I know what the definition of lying is.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor. I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them.

I believe a self-righteous liberal or conservative with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say "NO!"

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me french fries!

I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by kalm »

Travelinman, do you think affirmative action policies can limit individual freedoms as much as dynastic wealth?
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by RobsPics »

Col Hogan wrote:
RobsPics wrote:


The whole purpose of hate crime legislation is to identify the reason why a crime was committed.
Why does a reason need to be identified??? A beating is a beating...the sentence should be the same no matter what the reason...unless we want to establish a special class of people who get extra special treatment...

Why does a reason need to be identified? You do understand that crime laws are based on the mental state a person who commits a criminal act in the first place right?

For example:

A person drives drunk, crashes his car, and in the process kills a random innocent person on the street.
vs.
A person premeditates, buys a gun, and intentionally shoots a random innocent person in the head.

Both have committed homicide. Do you assert that both should receive the exact same sentence?
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by RobsPics »

Oh btw, I never claimed that racism is 100% eradicated due to Government intervention. Of course not, there's always people who will break the law.

But it doesn''t mean that particular legislation is useless...

For example, there was a time when it was legal for racist landlords to discriminate against black people. But the FAIR HOUSING ACT changed that. Now, the landlord might still be a racist, but he can't legally practice his racism...
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by Col Hogan »

RobsPics wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Why does a reason need to be identified??? A beating is a beating...the sentence should be the same no matter what the reason...unless we want to establish a special class of people who get extra special treatment...

Why does a reason need to be identified? You do understand that crime laws are based on the mental state a person who commits a criminal act in the first place right?

For example:

A person drives drunk, crashes his car, and in the process kills a random innocent person on the street.
vs.
A person premeditates, buys a gun, and intentionally shoots a random innocent person in the head.

Both have committed homicide. Do you assert that both should receive the exact same sentence?
One is called vehicular homicide under the influence...one is called murder...usually second or third degree...

Different charges get a different sentence...

Try again...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by RobsPics »

Col Hogan wrote:
RobsPics wrote:

Why does a reason need to be identified? You do understand that crime laws are based on the mental state a person who commits a criminal act in the first place right?

For example:

A person drives drunk, crashes his car, and in the process kills a random innocent person on the street.
vs.
A person premeditates, buys a gun, and intentionally shoots a random innocent person in the head.

Both have committed homicide. Do you assert that both should receive the exact same sentence?
One is called vehicular homicide under the influence...one is called murder...usually second or third degree...

Different charges get a different sentence...

Try again...

Same difference...

Different charges (hate crime versus traditional assault)...depending on the mental state of the perp.

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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by OSBF »

JoltinJoe wrote:
First question: the good, common sense of the majority. (Incidentally, what would prevent the federal government from doing the same?)

Second question: how can that 99% act but through congress/federal government?

Third question: again, the good, common sense of the majority.
The majority is not always on the right side of issues like civil rights and human rights.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by CID1990 »

RobsPics wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: And cannot be wiped out by legislative edict...

But racism has been wiped out by legislative edict...not 100% though, just in areas where the government has jurisdiction over peoples' actions.
I did not realize we had posters from Uranus on this board.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by AZGrizFan »

RobsPics wrote:
Col Hogan wrote: And cannot be wiped out by legislative edict...

But racism has been wiped out by legislative edict...not 100% though, just in areas where the government has jurisdiction over peoples' actions.
Jesus. Just when I think you can't get any dumber, you prove me wrong.


Were you drinking when you wrote this? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by bobbythekidd »

AZGrizFan wrote:
RobsPics wrote:

But racism has been wiped out by legislative edict...not 100% though, just in areas where the government has jurisdiction over peoples' actions.
Jesus. Just when I think you can't get any dumber, you prove me wrong.


Were you drinking when you wrote this? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I'm shitfaced! My neighbor and I have have fixed all the worlds problems with a 5 year plan and it could be done if everyone submits to our rule! All yo haave to so is everything we say and it will fall in pplace. It's amazing what can be accomplished with beer, mixed shots, and 2 like minds. :nod:

I have nothing to add other than the fact that I am drunk. Starting another thread seemed like too much so I'll just add it here.

What's the tobic here anyway?
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by AZGrizFan »

bobbythekidd wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Jesus. Just when I think you can't get any dumber, you prove me wrong.


Were you drinking when you wrote this? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I'm shitfaced! My neighbor and I have have fixed all the worlds problems with a 5 year plan and it could be done if everyone submits to our rule! All yo haave to so is everything we say and it will fall in pplace. It's amazing what can be accomplished with beer, mixed shots, and 2 like minds. :nod:

I have nothing to add other than the fact that I am drunk. Starting another thread seemed like too much so I'll just add it here.

What's the tobic here anyway?
Don't worry about the topic Bobbi, this thread was hijacked about 30 posts ago. :lol:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by mainejeff »

Col Hogan wrote:By the way...how did I fail...you admitted you want special treatment for your group...

If I'm attacked, my attacker is only charged with one crime...if you are attacked, you want your attacker charged with two crimes...

Both attacks hurt just as much,,,but you want special treatment...you have proven my point...

And that, my friend, is why America is going to hell in a hand basket...

I'm all for equal treatment for all people...but too many groups want special treatment...that does not fit into the American ideal that ALL PEOPLE are equal...
You're a friggin freak.

Hate crime legislation should be the least of your and our worries! :thumb:

By the way.......can you come up with a REAL example of what "special rights" that gays are seeking???
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by mainejeff »

catamount man wrote:VOTE ALL CURRENT POLITICIANS THE HELL OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That one I will agree with!
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by mainejeff »

Col Hogan wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:
No, I have nothing more to offer. Conkunism is deeply embedded and there's no changing anyone's mind.

:nod:
And you make your own point....why don't you try changing your mind.....
You seem VERY frustrated.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by mainejeff »

Col Hogan wrote:Why does a reason need to be identified??? A beating is a beating...the sentence should be the same no matter what the reason...unless we want to establish a special class of people who get extra special treatment...
Exactly.......same with marriage. Why should heterosexual consenting adults be the only consenting adults that can get married with all of the resulting "special" perks???
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by travelinman67 »

kalm wrote:Travelinman, do you think affirmative action policies can limit individual freedoms as much as dynastic wealth?
Although that is their intent, from what I've witnessed, the so-called redistribution is at best a multi-generational deterioration of old-working class wealth, not a redistribution of old capital wealth (which is unaffected by contractual allocation).
Not to be cynical, but it would be pollyannish to presume Congress would enact legislation resulting in *true* redistribution of old capital wealth.

More to the exact question you have asked, however, the "wealth" benefactors of affirmative action policies, IMHO, are not as many as one would expect in proportion to the volume of expenditures. And from the frontline, I can attest that results from basis business practice deficiencies. Akin to, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, I regularly have worked with MBE/WBE businesses who have contracts "thrown" at them by govt. set-asides, yet the owners/managers do not have the basic mgmt. skills needed to handle the volume of work available. Lack of formal education, but most notably, lack of work ethic and humility, are the chief issues. I could offer example after example of owners/managers who are catapulted onto balance sheets via govt. set asides, and rather than recognizing their achievement as a result of short-term market opportunity, perceive their "success" as resulting from their (nonexistent) accumen: Arrogance and degraded interpersonal skills quickly follow.

There's wisdom in what your grandparents used to tell you...

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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by Appaholic »

kalm wrote:Big government breaks up monopolies, wins wars, provides the infrastructure on which private industry is built, and prevents economic depressions from turning into situations where we are shanking each other in the streets.
And currently our banking industry merged to monopoly-like power and "too big to fail" status, we are currently in two wars that we aren't winning nor losing as we cannot articulate what "winning" is, our infrastructure is crumbling as the the country experiences blackouts, gridlock, & water/power shortages while we have the highest murder rate of any industrialzed western country....all under the careful watch of a large government growing bigger everyday..... :coffee:
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by bobbythekidd »

bobbythekidd wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Jesus. Just when I think you can't get any dumber, you prove me wrong.


Were you drinking when you wrote this? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I'm shitfaced! My neighbor and I have have fixed all the worlds problems with a 5 year plan and it could be done if everyone submits to our rule! All yo haave to so is everything we say and it will fall in pplace. It's amazing what can be accomplished with beer, mixed shots, and 2 like minds. :nod:

I have nothing to add other than the fact that I am drunk. Starting another thread seemed like too much so I'll just add it here.

What's the tobic here anyway?
OOOFF! I don't remember that one.
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Re: What Will It Take To Save America.....?

Post by kalm »

Appaholic wrote:
kalm wrote:Big government breaks up monopolies, wins wars, provides the infrastructure on which private industry is built, and prevents economic depressions from turning into situations where we are shanking each other in the streets.
And currently our banking industry merged to monopoly-like power and "too big to fail" status, we are currently in two wars that we aren't winning nor losing as we cannot articulate what "winning" is, our infrastructure is crumbling as the the country experiences blackouts, gridlock, & water/power shortages while we have the highest murder rate of any industrialzed western country....all under the careful watch of a large government growing bigger everyday..... :coffee:
It's grown large in all the wrong ways. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread the need for a strong government verus a big government which is more of what I was getting at, so I'll strike the word large if it makes you feel better.

We are threatened just as much from big business as we are from big government.
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