I'm talking about keeping the money on the local level....allow local goverments to forego their federally-mandated spending on social programs if money is used within local community....in other words, keep the fokking money from ever exchanging hands with DC....you keep the same amount of money in the local economy initially, you eliminate funding of programs with questionable CBA's....the mere fact the money must funnel through DC to begin with decreases it's buying power as it gets "lost" on a pallet in the MidEast....bobbythekidd wrote:I thought about that idea too. It wouldn't help anything but the US Government if we tried it. In times like these, everyone is moving towards saving and paying off debt. Not that that is a bad thing, but the free spending days are behind us for a while. If everyone got $50,000; 20% of people would spend it as soon as they got it on crap they have always wanted but never really needed. Not a large enough portion to really get a substantial kick start going in the GDP. I call that 20% poor people.Appaholic wrote:But wouldn't the economy recover faster if, instead of spending $62,500-$167,000 to save 1.6million jobs, we gave 3.2million people $33,750-$83,500 in cash to spend into the economy in an effort to stimulate job creation? Why does it have to go through the middle-man (govt) to be effective? What would you do with $33k-$83k in your pocket & no job?...
60% (middle class) of the people would pay off credit card debt, mortgages, or car payments and that would get some of the debt off of the car industry and banking industry. Those businesses then could pay back the TARP money loans. The net winner their is the very industry that gave the loans or the "free money" in the first place, and they are only getting back 60% of what they gave away.
The final 20% don't "need" the money but would be happy to stick it in their war chest for retirement and doing little to spur the economy.
Stimulus is working!
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Re: Stimulus is working!
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Re: Stimulus is working!
Appaholic wrote:I'm talking about keeping the money on the local level....allow local goverments to forego their federally-mandated spending on social programs if money is used within local community....in other words, keep the fokking money from ever exchanging hands with DC....you keep the same amount of money in the local economy initially, you eliminate funding of programs with questionable CBA's....the mere fact the money must funnel through DC to begin with decreases it's buying power as it gets "lost" on a pallet in the MidEast....bobbythekidd wrote:
I thought about that idea too. It wouldn't help anything but the US Government if we tried it. In times like these, everyone is moving towards saving and paying off debt. Not that that is a bad thing, but the free spending days are behind us for a while. If everyone got $50,000; 20% of people would spend it as soon as they got it on crap they have always wanted but never really needed. Not a large enough portion to really get a substantial kick start going in the GDP. I call that 20% poor people.
60% (middle class) of the people would pay off credit card debt, mortgages, or car payments and that would get some of the debt off of the car industry and banking industry. Those businesses then could pay back the TARP money loans. The net winner their is the very industry that gave the loans or the "free money" in the first place, and they are only getting back 60% of what they gave away.
The final 20% don't "need" the money but would be happy to stick it in their war chest for retirement and doing little to spur the economy.
......or in a Haliburton brand bodybag.

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Re: Stimulus is working!
kalm wrote:The one positive about the stimulus is that it, along with social safety net programs, so far has prevented a recession from turning into a second Great Depression. But we're not out of the woods yet.
The only thing keeping this from being another Great Depression is our willingness to spend $10 trillion dollars more than we bring in....keep cranking that printing press in the basement, Obama...
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Re: Stimulus is working!
And the alternative?AZGrizFan wrote:kalm wrote:The one positive about the stimulus is that it, along with social safety net programs, so far has prevented a recession from turning into a second Great Depression. But we're not out of the woods yet.![]()
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The only thing keeping this from being another Great Depression is our willingness to spend $10 trillion dollars more than we bring in....keep cranking that printing press in the basement, Obama...![]()
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Re: Stimulus is working!
LET THEM FAILkalm wrote:And the alternative?AZGrizFan wrote:
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The only thing keeping this from being another Great Depression is our willingness to spend $10 trillion dollars more than we bring in....keep cranking that printing press in the basement, Obama...![]()
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
Repeat over and over until it sinks in. Instead of fucking the country for 5 years, they've effectively fucked it for 50.
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12

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Re: Stimulus is working!
AZGrizFan wrote:LET THEM FAILkalm wrote:
And the alternative?
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
Repeat over and over until it sinks in. Instead of fucking the country for 5 years, they've effectively fucked it for 50.
Z, you're not very smart are you?
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Re: Stimulus is working!
z, if you're referring to the banks I don't neccessarily disagree. I hope someone knows what they're doing but the cynic in me thinks we've just reinflated the bubble.
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Re: Stimulus is working!
AZGrizFan wrote:LET THEM FAILkalm wrote:
And the alternative?
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
Repeat over and over until it sinks in. Instead of fucking the country for 5 years, they've effectively fucked it for 50.

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Re: Stimulus is working!
What the hell does THAT have to do with letting the banks fail?Cap'n Cat wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
LET THEM FAIL
Repeat over and over until it sinks in. Instead of fucking the country for 5 years, they've effectively fucked it for 50.
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"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: Stimulus is working!
SK- answer this for me, OK?Skjellyfetti wrote:Well, if every dollar spent was supposed to go to job creation... you'd have a point.
It wasn't a job creation bill... it was a bill intended to stimulate the economy. Certainly job creation is a large part of that... but, not the only part. For instance... tax cuts are a HUGE part of the bill (over $300,000,000,000-- which I'm sure will be quite a shock to you) but don't directly create or save any jobs.
Check out all that it's doing in Arizona.Pretty cool.
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http://az.gov/app/trans360/start.xhtml? ... ation=join
What we are doing right now with our stimulus spending.... in what way does this differ with the start of Japan's "lost decade"? I'll give you a hint: we are folowing Japan's roadmap exactly. Our recession is also mirroring Japan's. (It began in their real estate market which was heavily leveraged) Japan also had false indicators of economic recovery about a year after their first stimulus. (They ultimately had 10 of them, none of which were as big as our first. We need two more stimulus packages to equal the capital spent in Japan's 10)
What are we doing differently? How will we avoid a deficit that amounts to 200% of GNP, like Japan has now? In 5 years, tax rates will have to triple in order to balance interest payments on our debt. When corporate tax rates rise similarly, do you really think that jobs propped up by monopoly money will still be there?
Do you think that?
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Re: Stimulus is working!
The stimulus bill isnt intended to create jobs or do anything to our economy.Skjellyfetti wrote:
As I've already said in this thread... the stimulus bill isn't a job creation bill. It's an economic recovery bill... job creation is a part of that (and a large part) but not the only part.
There are over $300 billion in tax cuts to individuals and businesses out of the $787 billion in the bill. That's the way the government "gives" money to individuals and businesses. That's a pretty damn significant chunk of the bill... and something that is routinely overlooked.
It was a creative way to get taxpayers to give the Dems a slush fund to use our money to get them reelected in the 2010 mid term elections. They will stimulate media outlets all over the country to try and maintain their power but most people are starting to see that they never intended to revive our economy. In fact they are doing this on purpose to sink us permanently.

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Re: Stimulus is working!
They aren't the same thing at all.......CID1990 wrote:
SK- answer this for me, OK?
What we are doing right now with our stimulus spending.... in what way does this differ with the start of Japan's "lost decade"? I'll give you a hint: we are folowing Japan's roadmap exactly. Our recession is also mirroring Japan's. (It began in their real estate market which was heavily leveraged) Japan also had false indicators of economic recovery about a year after their first stimulus. (They ultimately had 10 of them, none of which were as big as our first. We need two more stimulus packages to equal the capital spent in Japan's 10)
What are we doing differently? How will we avoid a deficit that amounts to 200% of GNP, like Japan has now? In 5 years, tax rates will have to triple in order to balance interest payments on our debt. When corporate tax rates rise similarly, do you really think that jobs propped up by monopoly money will still be there?
Do you think that?
Japan's stagnation in the '90's was caused by deep flaws in their economy which developed into a banking crisis. In the US in 2008... deep flaws in our banking sector led to a crisis in the whole economy. Most of US's nonfinancial corporations are healthy financially. That wasn't the case in Japan... the whole economy, every sector was a mess.
And, I believe Japan's stimulus did reverse the course of their recession. When Japan began pouring money into the economy, their GDP began rising. What slowed and stopped the GDP growth was when Japan began taking money out of the economy by greatly increasing taxes in the late '90's. (Yeah, I said increasing taxes was bad in that situaion
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Re: Stimulus is working!
Keep hearing alot of reports of recipients paying back stim cash by the billions, or at least forecasting the ability to do so. 
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Re: Stimulus is working!
Hi. I'm BTK and I'll be your instructor today in Econ 101.Skjellyfetti wrote:When Japan began pouring money into the economy, their GDP began rising. What slowed and stopped the GDP growth was when Japan began taking money out of the economy...
GDP = C + I + E + G
C = Consumer Spending
I = Investment made by industry
E = Excess of Exports over Imports
G = Government Spending
Given that 25% of the formula is government spending you have just stumbled upon a "well no shit, Captain Obvious" moment. This concludes today's lesson.
Get out a blank sheet of paper and a #2 pencil for the pop quiz to see who was paying attention.
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Re: Stimulus is working!
Yah, I know it is a no shit moment, Bobby... but, Cid was saying that Japan's fiscal spending is what prolonged the recession when it was their tax increases and reduced spending in the late '90's.
Since it's so obvious, do you agree with my point?
Since it's so obvious, do you agree with my point?
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Re: Stimulus is working!
I dunno. I don't read your posts for a logical point anymore. I just see what is stupid about them and say something smart assed about them. I'll go back and read it for content this time. Give me a minute.Skjellyfetti wrote:Yah, I know it is a no shit moment, Bobby... but, Cid was saying that Japan's fiscal spending is what prolonged the recession when it was their tax increases and reduced spending in the late '90's.
Since it's so obvious, do you agree with my point?
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Re: Stimulus is working!
It's Bob dammit!Skjellyfetti wrote:Yah, I know it is a no shit moment, Bobby
Now I'll go back to the post before this one.
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Re: Stimulus is working!
OK I read it. I really don't know anything about Japan's economy or how their markets were/are to say anything about what you a Cid are discussing, other than your one point about most of the industries in the US that were not Finance related were in decent shape before the collapse. They were in decent shape so long as the financial industry DID NOT collapse. It did, and then; they did.
I don't think being leveraged to the hilt is a good way to do business, and this is why. OPM works, but it can't be everything you have in your hand.
I don't think being leveraged to the hilt is a good way to do business, and this is why. OPM works, but it can't be everything you have in your hand.





