Oral Roberts Dead At 91

[Appaholic]

Televangelists have no integrity....

Give me a break, App. Whitewashing the entire group for the (albeit VERY public) failures of a few is disingenuous at best.

And given the proliferation of NON-RELIGIOUS non-profits, why all the angst about churches and faith-based organizations getting a tax break? Did you ever stop to think about the good that is done by them? Churches all across the country run food pantries, job fairs, and all sorts of things that save the government money because the government isn't paying for them. For example, take Teen Challenge. That's a faith-based organization dedicated to getting people (not just teens) off of drugs. They have a wildly better success rate than any secular program simply because they factor in God. It's the good that the church does that was the reason why the government authorized the tax breaks in the first place. In fact, it was expected, back in the day, that those in need would get help from the church BEFORE sponging off the government. What's wrong with that?

It's a reference from another thread directed at TMan.....

btw, the govt is paying for them if they don't collect taxes on property like they do every other organization & private individuals....are those services available to all people, or just those who the religious organizations deem worthy of receiving their services? Allowing religious organizations to be tax-free (in essence, receiving money from the govt) so services can be dispensed at the whim of a congregation to who they deem is worthy isn't acceptable to those who don't share the same beliefs. & Teen Challenge may be succesful, but attributing that success solely to the "God" factor is a stretch....about like stating a secular organization is succesful only because it doesn't reference a supreme being....

[ASUMountaineer]

Give me a break, App. Whitewashing the entire group for the (albeit VERY public) failures of a few is disingenuous at best.

And given the proliferation of NON-RELIGIOUS non-profits, why all the angst about churches and faith-based organizations getting a tax break? Did you ever stop to think about the good that is done by them? Churches all across the country run food pantries, job fairs, and all sorts of things that save the government money because the government isn't paying for them. For example, take Teen Challenge. That's a faith-based organization dedicated to getting people (not just teens) off of drugs. They have a wildly better success rate than any secular program simply because they factor in God. It's the good that the church does that was the reason why the government authorized the tax breaks in the first place. In fact, it was expected, back in the day, that those in need would get help from the church BEFORE sponging off the government. What's wrong with that?

It's a reference from another thread directed at TMan.....

btw, the govt is paying for them if they don't collect taxes on property like they do every other organization & private individuals....are those services available to all people, or just those who the religious organizations deem worthy of receiving their services? Allowing religious organizations to be tax-free (in essence, receiving money from the govt) so services can be dispensed at the whim of a congregation to who they deem is worthy isn't acceptable to those who don't share the same beliefs. & Teen Challenge may be succesful, but attributing that success solely to the "God" factor is a stretch....about like stating a secular organization is succesful only because it doesn't reference a supreme being....

It sounds similar to the UNICEF, United Way, Unions, etc. There are many non-religious (non-church), tax-exempt charities and organizations out there that provide services and still push agendas, and can change who they benefit at a whim.

As to success and why...who cares? If they get the job done...good. It's a fine line, either you throw the first amendment out and regulate religion/ religious institutions and private organizations, or you keep with the "don't ask, don't tell" type policy. It's tough for a politician to address, because they don't want to "take money away from people who need the services" if you make the groups pay taxes. At the same rate, if they're being political, that's an issue too.

[OSBF]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

[ASUMountaineer]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

[Appaholic]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

So Augusta membership is tax deductible?

[OSBF]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

yep, if you want to be a sexist racist homophobe pediphile you can find a group that will welcome you with open arms.

[Cap'n Cat]

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

yep, if you want to be a sexist racist homophobe pediphile you can find a group that will welcome you with open arms.

Like the Republican Party!!!!

[OSBF]

yep, if you want to be a sexist racist homophobe pediphile you can find a group that will welcome you with open arms.

Like the Republican Party!!!!

HE SHOOTS.......................HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can i get credit for the assist?

[ASUMountaineer]

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

yep, if you want to be a sexist racist homophobe pediphile you can find a group that will welcome you with open arms.

That's true, and a good shot you can write the donations off on your taxes.

[Cap'n Cat]

Like the Republican Party!!!!

HE SHOOTS.......................HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can i get credit for the assist?

Indeed!!!!

[AZGrizFan]

HE SHOOTS.......................HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can i get credit for the assist?

Indeed!!!!

You done swallowin' his load yet, SF?

[SuperHornet]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

That's revisionist cr@p if I've ever heard it. Have you forgotten your HS U.S. History class? Ministers were behind the Abolition movement AND the modern civil rights movement. Egad! What DO they teach in these schools nowadays?!?

[OSBF]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

That's revisionist cr@p if I've ever heard it. Have you forgotten your HS U.S. History class? Ministers were behind the Abolition movement AND the modern civil rights movement. Egad! What DO they teach in these schools nowadays?!?

No, its the truth, not my fault you're too stupid to understand it.

[Appaholic]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

That's revisionist cr@p if I've ever heard it. Have you forgotten your HS U.S. History class? Ministers were behind the Abolition movement AND the modern civil rights movement. Egad! What DO they teach in these schools nowadays?!?

Very true.....also true were ministers who assisted in maintaining & encouraging the continued discrimination against minorities....I know, because I am related to one in Mississippi...

[houndawg]

Maybe so, but that's the privilege to being a private organization...a la the Boy Scouts, or Augusta National (the Masters).

yep, if you want to be a sexist racist homophobe pediphile you can find a group that will welcome you with open arms.

If your referring to Republican Senators and Congressmen, you're too late. I hear they have, ahem... turned over a new page.




Hey, did you hear about Senator Craig's (R-ID) new book? It's titled "Born in Idaho, Reared in Minneapolis".

[ATrain]

Religious organizations are not afraid of taxation because of the money it would cost them. They are afraid of being forced into following civil rights,human rights,equal oportunity, etc etc etc.

That's revisionist cr@p if I've ever heard it. Have you forgotten your HS U.S. History class? Ministers were behind the Abolition movement AND the modern civil rights movement. Egad! What DO they teach in these schools nowadays?!?

And ministers were also behind trying to keep slavery, segregation, women voting, etc...the conservative ministers are opposed to change mainly b/c they can't handle changes in routine or changes in the way of thinking, and some liberal ministers are so far out in left field they're not even in the stadium anymore. My point is, people can twist the Bible to make it say anything they want and justify any actions that they want. Sadly, the more prominent ministers use it to incite homophobia amongst their congregations.