Another terrorist plot.........another security failure

[AZGrizFan]

Any of you folk actually lived in a Muslim country before? Not been stationed in one, but actually lived there?

Didn't think so. If you had you'd realize how little difference there is between us. Maybe next time some wackjob shoots an abortion doctor we could bomb a few christian churches to teach them a lesson.

I've lived in a Muslim country before. And yes, there is little difference (especially in the younger generations thanks to the internetz probably). A lot of Muslims actually adore American culture (cars, movies, singers, barbies, pokemon, WOW, etc.). I mean, this may come to a shock to some of you, but there are clubs and bars in some of the countries too; it's really not THAT different. When I visit my family back in the ME, a lot of new people I meet are really curious about America (in a good way), and never seem to give me crap about it. The last time I went, a lot of them even said that it was a blessing that we're fighting terrorism there. It really affects a large majority of people. Unfortunately, it's the few shitheads that mess it up for everyone...plus they have the guns and the governments are not exactly the strongest.

Sure would be nice if folks like this actually HELPED.

[mainejeff]

Sure would be nice if folks like this actually HELPED.

Exactly.

I wonder how the Middle Eastern/African countries would feel if American Christian bombers infiltrated their countries and blew up civilians in the name of "God"........and our government and people said nothing.......did nothing about it???

[∞∞∞]

I've lived in a Muslim country before. And yes, there is little difference (especially in the younger generations thanks to the internetz probably). A lot of Muslims actually adore American culture (cars, movies, singers, barbies, pokemon, WOW, etc.). I mean, this may come to a shock to some of you, but there are clubs and bars in some of the countries too; it's really not THAT different. When I visit my family back in the ME, a lot of new people I meet are really curious about America (in a good way), and never seem to give me crap about it. The last time I went, a lot of them even said that it was a blessing that we're fighting terrorism there. It really affects a large majority of people. Unfortunately, it's the few shitheads that mess it up for everyone...plus they have the guns and the governments are not exactly the strongest.

Sure would be nice if folks like this actually HELPED.

Fear and resources. I lived in a country where a certain terrorist group recently rolled into part of the capital and the military couldn't do anything about it. Unlike America, where if a radical group tried to take Washington, any resistance would be quelled, these countries don't necessarily have that luxury. I mean, what do you when your own elected officials can do little to protect you? It comes down to the most basic human instict...survival. That's why I find what's happening in Iran right now so amazing, and applaud them wholeheartedly.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

It isn't muslims that we need to get rid of, it is the extremists.....regardless of their religious affiliation.

Agreed. But what did you mean by:

Pretty sure we could if we really wanted too. The area wouldn't be habitable for thousands of years, but ya, we could if we wanted too

Since your "pretty sure" that we can get rid of extremists, how would you do it? What area are you speaking of?

What I meant by it is we could remove them from any area if we chose to. The problem then arises as to what are the acceptable collateral damages? If we chose to, we could eliminate them, there is no doubt in my mind that we could. But What we chose to do is do it in a little more systematic way, sometimes to a fault. We do try to eliminate civilian casualties, it doesn't always work, but I know we do try. I don't doubt for a second if some of the extremist regimes out there had a nuclear bomb that they would use it in a heart beat and kill as many as possible. That is the basic difference as I see it.

[AZGrizFan]

Sure would be nice if folks like this actually HELPED.

Fear and resources. I lived in a country where a certain terrorist group recently rolled into part of the capital and the military couldn't do anything about it. Unlike America, where if a radical group tried to take Washington, any resistance would be quelled, these countries don't necessarily have that luxury. I mean, what do you when your own elected officials can do little to protect you? It comes down to the most basic human instict...survival. That's why I find what's happening in Iran right now so amazing, and applaud them wholeheartedly.

Agreed 100%, infinity. Those folks are (surprisingly) leading the charge for moderate muslims regarding taking back their country...and are to be applauded.

[native]

Sure would be nice if folks like this actually HELPED.

Fear and resources. I lived in a country where a certain terrorist group recently rolled into part of the capital and the military couldn't do anything about it. Unlike America, where if a radical group tried to take Washington, any resistance would be quelled, these countries don't necessarily have that luxury. I mean, what do you when your own elected officials can do little to protect you? It comes down to the most basic human instict...survival. That's why I find what's happening in Iran right now so amazing, and applaud them wholeheartedly.

Despite my strong misgivings about the "Arab Street," well said regarding the Iranians. God bless those brave souls.

[∞∞∞]

Agreed 100%, infinity. Those folks are (surprisingly) leading the charge for moderate muslims regarding taking back their country...and are to be applauded.

Unfortunately, as much as I love what's happening there, they're not going to take back the country without outside assistance, or at least weapons. In the short-term, this second wave of demonstrations could be more demoralizing than beneficial. But in the long-term, what's happening in Iran will only help as the older generations die and the 20-30 year olds of this demographically young Persian country begin to take over government and religious positions. Nontheless, these signs of revolution will not be forgotten.

[CID1990]

Any of you folk actually lived in a Muslim country before? Not been stationed in one, but actually lived there?

Didn't think so. If you had you'd realize how little difference there is between us. Maybe next time some wackjob shoots an abortion doctor we could bomb a few christian churches to teach them a lesson.

I lived in two. I wasn't in the military, and in both of those countries I lived on the local economy.

[CID1990]

But isn't that a good thing in their religion? And I agree with another poster, extremist muslims are killing more innocent muslims than we are. I honestly think we do too much to reduce civilian casualties and put our own troops at risk because of it.

For innocents, women, little kids to die in war?

Most muslims are not extremists, and painting the picture in broad strokes does nothing to help with understanding the problem and how to fix it.

We can't kill them all, yet we currrently have military operations going in five muslim countries. Are we preventing further terrorist attacks on the US? Sure. Are we creating future terrorists through collateral damage. Absolutely.

I agree that most Muslims are not extremists, but the extremists have a LOT of enablers. Just look at the opinion polls that the NYT loves to trot out... focused on what people in Muslim countries think of America and whether or not killing American civilians is kosher (for lack of a better word). The percentages are up there.

[CID1990]

I'm glad I know a GREAT man, friend, and life-long teacher who's a proud graduate of the Citadel, because you're a terrible representative of that fine institution.

Good for you, Bubba.

BTW- I wear your scorn like an effing boutonniere on my tuxedo lapel.

[native]

Hell, it's nice to know SOMEONE at State has a set of huevos...

Yeah, I love the idea of having Toby **** Keith representing the US abroad.

Me, too. SERIOUSLY, me too.

[slycat]

No matter how tight the system is it can always be broken.

[native]

Agreed 100%, infinity. Those folks are (surprisingly) leading the charge for moderate muslims regarding taking back their country...and are to be applauded.

Unfortunately, as much as I love what's happening there, they're not going to take back the country without outside assistance, or at least weapons. In the short-term, this second wave of demonstrations could be more demoralizing than beneficial. But in the long-term, what's happening in Iran will only help as the older generations die and the 20-30 year olds of this demographically young Persian country begin to take over government and religious positions. Nontheless, these signs of revolution will not be forgotten.

...not forgotten by either side. But you are right, in that the demographics favor the reformers in the long haul - although we have already been saying that for more than a decade...

[native]

Now what would Jesus think of that, Ivy?

He would tell us to turn over another cheek.

The problem with liberals is that they don't turn their own cheek, they demand someone else do so on their behalf.

[native]

Maureen Dowd, from the NYT:

"...If we can’t catch a Nigerian with a powerful explosive powder in his oddly feminine-looking underpants and a syringe full of acid, a man whose own father had alerted the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria, a traveler whose ticket was paid for in cash and who didn’t check bags, whose visa renewal had been denied by the British, who had studied Arabic in Al Qaeda sanctuary Yemen, whose name was on a counter-terrorism watch list, who can we catch?..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/opini ... newsletter

[Grizalltheway]

He would tell us to turn over another cheek.

The problem with liberals is that they don't turn their own cheek, they demand someone else do so on their behalf.

For the love of your God man, get a grip.

[CID1990]

Maureen Dowd, from the NYT:

"...If we can’t catch a Nigerian with a powerful explosive powder in his oddly feminine-looking underpants and a syringe full of acid, a man whose own father had alerted the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria, a traveler whose ticket was paid for in cash and who didn’t check bags, whose visa renewal had been denied by the British, who had studied Arabic in Al Qaeda sanctuary Yemen, whose name was on a counter-terrorism watch list, who can we catch?..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/opini ... newsletter

Hey, I agree with her on this, but at the end of the day she's just a flag flapping in the political wind. She'd be bitching and complaining if we were really picking out these people for extra screening at the departure gate.

[Ivytalk]

Time for the Wayne's World approach: Full body cavity searches!

Bend over, Mustafa!

[Chizzang]

Agreed 100%, infinity. Those folks are (surprisingly) leading the charge for moderate muslims regarding taking back their country...and are to be applauded.

Unfortunately, as much as I love what's happening there, they're not going to take back the country without outside assistance, or at least weapons. In the short-term, this second wave of demonstrations could be more demoralizing than beneficial. But in the long-term, what's happening in Iran will only help as the older generations die and the 20-30 year olds of this demographically young Persian country begin to take over government and religious positions. Nontheless, these signs of revolution will not be forgotten.

Iran is about the most educated country on earth among their 20 & 30 somethings...
and that bodes well for that countries chances for turning over in the next decade

However: Young Iranians are leaving about as quickly as they can and heading to Europe and America

This I am told by two Iranian brothers who I've become great friends with - they live in Orange county and run a fairly amazing business... they are really good guys and are very open about their past and their countries future

I also became great friends with Mehrdad Kia a young Iranian professor at the University of Montana back in 88 - we were both about the same age - partied together a little bit, he was fascinated about me heading off to school in Boston and we stayed in touch for a while... he had great stories about the Iranian Revolution in 1979..!!!

he ended up getting a professorial position in the history department in 90 at UM and he's still there I believe...

I LOVE PERSIANS some of the best most involved loving & educated people

[AZGrizFan]

I LOVE PERSIANS some of the best most involved loving & educated people

I love Persians too....










Now, back to regularly scheduled programming...

[Ivytalk]

The bikini contest winner reminds me of my cat in the summertime: a shaved Persian!

[Chizzang]

This might be the most beautiful creature on EARTH..!!!


Oh... Um... Second to this creature (of course)