Public Schools

[danefan]

"Highly ranked school system" usually a fancy way of saying "school precinct with very low percentage of students in lower socioeconomic brackets". There really isn't any more rigor in those schools whatsoever. What '86 said is also true. If you are looking for a public school with a good gifted program you are wasting your time - you aren't going to see anything like that in this age of the great republicrat NCLB Act.

Yes and no. Take a look at Little Rock high school in Arkansas. Consistently ranked very high amongst US high schools and they have a huge population of very poor kids.

High school rankings specifically are for the most part reliant on the availability of college level classes.

[Franks Tanks]

"Highly ranked school system" usually a fancy way of saying "school precinct with very low percentage of students in lower socioeconomic brackets". There really isn't any more rigor in those schools whatsoever. What '86 said is also true. If you are looking for a public school with a good gifted program you are wasting your time - you aren't going to see anything like that in this age of the great republicrat NCLB Act.

Yes and no. Take a look at Little Rock high school in Arkansas. Consistently ranked very high amongst US high schools and they have a huge population of very poor kids.

High school rankings specifically are for the most part reliant on the availability of college level classes.

There is a great HBO doc about that school-- also of course the site of the forced integration back in the day so very famous.

[danefan]

Yes and no. Take a look at Little Rock high school in Arkansas. Consistently ranked very high amongst US high schools and they have a huge population of very poor kids.

High school rankings specifically are for the most part reliant on the availability of college level classes.

There is a great HBO doc about that school-- also of course the site of the forced integration back in the day so very famous.

That's where I first heard about the skewed rankings. HBO has some phenominal documentaries.

[UNHWildCats]

As someone who grew up in a Catholic school system, I continue to remain disappointed in our local public school system.

My wife and I chose a community significantly based on the reputation of the school system. We pay high taxes, but the tradeoff is that our school system is ranked among the top 500 local school systems in the United States.

But my son, now in second grade, continues to bring home homework which seems remarkably unchallenging and non-stimulating for a bright second grader. His reading material which is assigned is not more challenging than books my wife and I gave him to read when he was in kindergarten -- so much so that we recently purchased for him the first Harry Potter book (which he read in about a week) and now the second Harry Potter book. He has never taken a test; all grading is still based on subjective impression. He has never been drilled in his multiplication tables -- something I knew by heart by second grade.

This is a highly rated public school system. I know all about trying to build self-esteem, but self-esteem is false if it is based on lowering the bar. Kids need to be tested, challenged, presented opportunities to succeed, not simply given tasks that they cannot fail. Say what you will about the nuns, but they pushed you to succeed, and scolded you when you tried to skimp by on modest effort. Now, from what I can see, a modest effort is all that is needed to succeed.

I agree that homework given in schools can be unchallenging. One thing that may be at issue here is that your son is more advanced than other kids in his class and teachers obviously can't go about separate lessons for separate kids and its not fair to the kids who may not be so advanced to have to face tougher work they may not be ready for.

A possible solution would be placement exams during the summer and having two separate kinds of classes, say First Grade and First Grade Advanced this way kids who are more advanced in learning can face tougher challenges. Another solution would be to possibly advance the kid to the next grade, i like the first idea better as it keeps the kids with others his own age.

The little one here (Adeland) is very smart and does his work with ease, his reading level is near 3rd grade and he is currently half way through 1st grade. He does take tests in school and he constantly gets perfect scores on them, aside from assigned school homework he also does extra homework that we give him at home.

The education system in the US needs to be overhauled. School years need to be expanded to year round and possibly even added time to the school day. Right now Adeland does an after school program from 3 to 5:30 where he does his homework and other projects, being at school from 8:30 to 5:30 is not a strain on him or the other kids there, so the time would be better spent in classrooms learning.

[kalm]

If you haven't already, share your concerns with his teacher and/or the principle. They have a number of kids to focus on and they might not realize the talent of your kid until the school year is almost over.

And some of it might be expectations.

When my oldest entered kindergarten I spent the first month asking the teacher about his progress and being dismayed by her constant negativity. "He was developmentally delayed in motor skills, behind in reading and writing, had difficulty following instructions" etc. At one point she chastised me with "you've got to understand there are higher academic standards for kindergartners these days" at which point I asked her to tell me what he did well. As she rattled off things like "very expressive, creative, and good social skills" I immediately relaxed.

I later came to find out this was her first year teaching K (she had previously taught higher grades) so part of the problem may have been with her expectations while my own idea of kindergarten was to make BFF's and learning to quick picking your nose in public.

The point is that things have changed since we were in school. There is a wide diverstiy of learning styles and abilities within each public school classroom, and like others pointed out part of our job as parents is provide supplemental learning at home. So keep the Harry Potter books coming and throw in the multiplication tables if you feel like it as well.

[CID1990]

Public Schools are hampered by several things:

1) First and foremost, standardized testing. This leads to teaching to the test, not the underlying concepts.
2) Diversion of resources for disabled/thought to be disabled. While mainstreaming, and other programs to bring those with problems out from the shadows are well intentioned, and very good, it diverts limited resources away from the majority of students. Ideally, there would be enough funding to do both, but there is not.
3) Lazy parents who do not want to take responsibility, nor accept that little Johnny has issues.
4) The "self-esteem" movement. I orginally was going to be a teacher. Was told I would be great at it. But I battled my education teachers over "self-esteem", and the concept of "giving kids self-esteem". My argument is that if someone gives you self-esteem, they can take it away. ON the other hand, if you create an environment where children can EARN self-esteem, then no one can take that away from them.

Holy crap, Jon.

You gave your password to your conservative brother or something?

Spot on.

[danefan]

Public Schools are hampered by several things:

1) First and foremost, standardized testing. This leads to teaching to the test, not the underlying concepts.
2) Diversion of resources for disabled/thought to be disabled. While mainstreaming, and other programs to bring those with problems out from the shadows are well intentioned, and very good, it diverts limited resources away from the majority of students. Ideally, there would be enough funding to do both, but there is not.
3) Lazy parents who do not want to take responsibility, nor accept that little Johnny has issues.
4) The "self-esteem" movement. I orginally was going to be a teacher. Was told I would be great at it. But I battled my education teachers over "self-esteem", and the concept of "giving kids self-esteem". My argument is that if someone gives you self-esteem, they can take it away. ON the other hand, if you create an environment where children can EARN self-esteem, then no one can take that away from them.

Holy crap, Jon.

You gave your password to your conservative brother or something?

Spot on.

Not sure his thoughts are at all partisan. Just commonsensical.

[D1B]

Hey Joe I know I make significantly less than you and my wife stays at home. All three of my girls are in Catholic school. Make the sacrifice if you don't like the product.

How much time is wasted teaching em shit like christian/catholic dogma? Time that could be spent in math or science or being a kid at recess. Add it all up and you'll realize you're shortchanging your kids a proper education and handicapping them for life with an utterly ridiculous and useless religion.

[YoUDeeMan]

The education system in the US needs to be overhauled. School years need to be expanded to year round and possibly even added time to the school day.

The education system in the US indeed needs to be overhauled, but expanding the school year and adding time to the school day for everyone is an absolutely pathetic idea.

Having a well rounded education and good self-esteem (needed for success in life) has very little to do with the length of time one spends in school and your suggestions are just another simplistic way of deferring the raising of one's children to others. I went to a private school and we got a fantastic education while going to school far fewer days than our public school counterparts.

Hire teachers who care about the kids more than their union, spend classroom time on the important stuff instead of policing bad behavior, encourage creativity, get parental involvement, and allow kids to spend time on extra curricular activities and you will have the ground work for a successful school.

Oh, I forgot. Public schools can't do that because we can't hold parents or kids responsible for their actions. The race towards mediocrity starts and ends with watering down the public schools in an effort to include everyone. Ironic.

[kalm]

Oh, I forgot. Public schools can't do that because we can't hold parents or kids responsible for their actions. The race towards mediocrity starts and ends with watering down the public schools in an effort to include everyone. Ironic.

That's a very big problem especially after grade school. But again, much of that goes back to parenting and teaching respect. The schools are afraid of a law suit.

BTW, unless I misunderstood your point, including everyone in public education is also called democracy. That's not one of the problems.

[JoltinJoe]

Hey Joe I know I make significantly less than you and my wife stays at home. All three of my girls are in Catholic school. Make the sacrifice if you don't like the product.

How much time is wasted teaching em **** like christian/catholic dogma? Time that could be spent in math or science or being a kid at recess. Add it all up and you'll realize you're shortchanging your kids a proper education and handicapping them for life with an utterly ridiculous and useless religion.

A greater risk of religious education in grammar school is that your child will never take theology on an advanced level because -- never mind that some of the world's most gifted minds have written extensively and seriously on the inherent human inclination toward the spiriutal and the implications of that drive -- the concept of there being a Big Tooth Fairy in the sky is so obviously stupid, that the study of theology on an advanced, adult level is a profound waste of time and reason.

Thus, in the future, when engaging in debate over the existence of God, they will unwittingly and ignorantly reveal the limitations of their grammar school grasp of the material, all the while foolishly thinking they are being profound and even winning the debate.

[D1B]

How much time is wasted teaching em **** like christian/catholic dogma? Time that could be spent in math or science or being a kid at recess. Add it all up and you'll realize you're shortchanging your kids a proper education and handicapping them for life with an utterly ridiculous and useless religion.

A greater risk of religious education in grammar school is that your child will never take theology on an advanced level because -- never mind that some of the world's most gifted minds have written extensively and seriously on the inherent human inclination toward the spiriutal and the implications of that drive -- the concept of there being a Big Tooth Fairy in the sky is so obviously stupid, that the study of theology on an advanced, adult level is a profound waste of time and reason.

Thus, in the future, when engaging in debate over the existence of God, they will unwittingly and ignorantly reveal the limitations of their grammar school grasp of the material, all the while foolishly thinking they are being profound and even winning the debate.

Joe, you did the right thing putting your kids in public schools.

Again, I can accept that a higher power is possible. I refuse to accept the ridiculous and impossible and borrowed christian myth - and ironically, neither do you.

[JoltinJoe]

"Highly ranked school system" usually a fancy way of saying "school precinct with very low percentage of students in lower socioeconomic brackets". There really isn't any more rigor in those schools whatsoever. What '86 said is also true. If you are looking for a public school with a good gifted program you are wasting your time - you aren't going to see anything like that in this age of the great republicrat NCLB Act.

Our school district actually consists of a very diverse group of people, including a substantial first-generation Mexican immigrant population (we can get the absolute best Mexican food in our downtown). It is one of the reasons we like our town so much you. I will grant you that we live in one of the "swankier" areas of the town; however, while our house is very nice, it is not opulent. I have no desire to own anything other than the type of house I have now, because living in some opulent 4,000 square feet home risks spoiling your children's expectations about what is reasonable and necessary for a happy life. Not all kids who grow up in a large house are spoiled like that, but a fair amount do grow up with such material desires, and I would rather not risk that.

[JoltinJoe]

A greater risk of religious education in grammar school is that your child will never take theology on an advanced level because -- never mind that some of the world's most gifted minds have written extensively and seriously on the inherent human inclination toward the spiriutal and the implications of that drive -- the concept of there being a Big Tooth Fairy in the sky is so obviously stupid, that the study of theology on an advanced, adult level is a profound waste of time and reason.

Thus, in the future, when engaging in debate over the existence of God, they will unwittingly and ignorantly reveal the limitations of their grammar school grasp of the material, all the while foolishly thinking they are being profound and even winning the debate.

Joe, you did the right thing putting your kids in public schools.

Again, I can accept that a higher power is possible. I refuse to accept the ridiculous and impossible and borrowed christian myth - and ironically, neither do you.

Aw shit, Jeff, I was just busting your balls.

[Franks Tanks]

"Highly ranked school system" usually a fancy way of saying "school precinct with very low percentage of students in lower socioeconomic brackets". There really isn't any more rigor in those schools whatsoever. What '86 said is also true. If you are looking for a public school with a good gifted program you are wasting your time - you aren't going to see anything like that in this age of the great republicrat NCLB Act.

Our school district actually consists of a very diverse group of people, including a substantial first-generation Mexican immigrant population (we can get the absolute best Mexican food in our downtown). It is one of the reasons we like our town so much you. I will grant you that we live in one of the "swankier" areas of the town; however, while our house is very nice, it is not opulent. I have no desire to own anything other than the type of house I have now, because living in some opulent 4,000 square feet home risks spoiling your children's expectations about what is reasonable and necessary for a happy life. Not all kids who grow up in a large house are spoiled like that, but a fair amount do grow up with such material desires, and I would rather not risk that.

My wife grew up in a huge house and is now of course is not satisfied by our comformatable 2,200 or so square foot home. Its just the two of us (no kids yet) and she still complains that our house is small.

I yell at her-- shut up I grew up in a 1,300 sq foot ranch house-- what we have is more than fine now and in the future unless we have 3 boys.

You're doing the right thing Joe!

[D1B]

"Highly ranked school system" usually a fancy way of saying "school precinct with very low percentage of students in lower socioeconomic brackets". There really isn't any more rigor in those schools whatsoever. What '86 said is also true. If you are looking for a public school with a good gifted program you are wasting your time - you aren't going to see anything like that in this age of the great republicrat NCLB Act.

Our school district actually consists of a very diverse group of people, including a substantial first-generation Mexican immigrant population (we can get the absolute best Mexican food in our downtown). It is one of the reasons we like our town so much you. I will grant you that we live in one of the "swankier" areas of the town; however, while our house is very nice, it is not opulent. I have no desire to own anything other than the type of house I have now, because living in some opulent 4,000 square feet home risks spoiling your children's expectations about what is reasonable and necessary for a happy life. Not all kids who grow up in a large house are spoiled like that, but a fair amount do grow up with such material desires, and I would rather not risk that.

[blueballs]

Our school district actually consists of a very diverse group of people, including a substantial first-generation Mexican immigrant population (we can get the absolute best Mexican food in our downtown). It is one of the reasons we like our town so much you.

I bet y'all have some of the cleanest toilets and best manicured lawns in the state.


Joe cruising on a Saturday morning:

http://www.spike.com/video/amazing-racist/2677619

[ASUMountaineer]

But you wound up at Lafayette. They must have done something right.

I did have some wonderful teachers, but I also got stuck in some poor classes. I wanted to take AP history, Govt and econ classes in High School but they werent available. I did have small classes and teachers who demanded I did well--but as some point the lack of options become frustrating. My HS football coach is/was a tremendous educator. He has won about 230 FB gams and pushed countless young guys in the classroom and on the field to help them achieve their potential. I owe a lot to him for pushing me as a youngster.

I am sure larger catholic schools exist with more resources, and they may be great options. Unfortunnatly Joe you may be stuck pushing your budding genius on your own a bit.

Unfortunately, your experience happens to us public school kids too. I grew up in rural NC and my high school only offered two AP courses: Calc and English. While, in Cary, NC the high school offered upward of 20 AP courses (according to a girl I dated in college). Cary is right outside of the RTP (yankee transplant) area (she was from NJ). Oh well, I still think my intellect far surpassed hers.

[CID1990]

I did have some wonderful teachers, but I also got stuck in some poor classes. I wanted to take AP history, Govt and econ classes in High School but they werent available. I did have small classes and teachers who demanded I did well--but as some point the lack of options become frustrating. My HS football coach is/was a tremendous educator. He has won about 230 FB gams and pushed countless young guys in the classroom and on the field to help them achieve their potential. I owe a lot to him for pushing me as a youngster.

I am sure larger catholic schools exist with more resources, and they may be great options. Unfortunnatly Joe you may be stuck pushing your budding genius on your own a bit.

Unfortunately, your experience happens to us public school kids too. I grew up in rural NC and my high school only offered two AP courses: Calc and English. While, in Cary, NC the high school offered upward of 20 AP courses (according to a girl I dated in college). Cary is right outside of the RTP (yankee transplant) area (she was from NJ). Oh well, I still think my intellect far surpassed hers.

My kid brother lives in Cary.

BTW... as ironic as it may sounds, the first AP courses ever got their start in rural NC. I think it was Edneyville High School in the mountains near Asheville.

My high school had AP English and that was it. That was in Caswell County in the 1980s. I think they have about 5 or 6 courses now.

[ASUMountaineer]

Unfortunately, your experience happens to us public school kids too. I grew up in rural NC and my high school only offered two AP courses: Calc and English. While, in Cary, NC the high school offered upward of 20 AP courses (according to a girl I dated in college). Cary is right outside of the RTP (yankee transplant) area (she was from NJ). Oh well, I still think my intellect far surpassed hers.

My kid brother lives in Cary.

BTW... as ironic as it may sounds, the first AP courses ever got their start in rural NC. I think it was Edneyville High School in the mountains near Asheville.

My high school had AP English and that was it. That was in Caswell County in the 1980s. I think they have about 5 or 6 courses now.

Nice. I did not know that about AP courses. I didn't take either, but I did take a class through the local community college offered at the HS that I transferred to ASU--Western Civilization.