2010 Hall of Fame class

[AshevilleApp]

Alan Trammell deserves to be in. His numbers are comparable to Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount, and he was from the same era.

[AZGrizFan]

Mattingly at his peak was so much better than Rose, there is no need to even compare the numbers. Mattingly hit higher -- like 30 points higher -- than Rose, and hit for power and production. And he was better defensively.

Rose was blessed with longetivity. Mattingly suffered a career-ending injury which caused his last years to be merely above average. The writers shortchange guys like Mattingly -- the very best at the game for an extended time, but whose careers are cut short. They worship numbers, like 3000 hits, or 500 HRs, no matter how long it takes for a guy to get there. Thus, an accumulator like Eddie Murray, who never sniffed the heights of Don Mattingly, gets in and Mattingly does not.

Any guy who can lay claim to being the game's very best player for as long as Mattingly was belongs in the Hall of Fame. And if he had not been a Yankee, he would have made it long ago.

While I agree with most of what you said about Rose, you REALLY need to take off the rose colored glasses regarding "Donny Baseball". "Very best at the game for an extended time"???? Mattingly had exactly THREE seasons in which he hit over 30 HR's. He had ONE amazing season in 1985 with 35 HR's and 145 RBI, two really good seasons after that in '86 and '87 and above average seasons in '84 and '89. That's IT. And I'd hardly call a three year stretch an "extended time".

Here's another "stretch" by Joltin' Joe: Mattingly's career batting average was exactly .004 higher that Pete Rose's. And that includes Rose's last several years in which he hit .271, .245, .286, .264 and .219.

Yeah, Rose hung on too long. Yeah, he didn't have a lot of power. But his career OBP is .375, while your hero's was .358. Pete also had 198 SB's, to Mr. Baseball's 14. Mattingly had 13 full seasons, only three of which he had less than 500 AB's. and for more than HALF of those 13, his power numbers looked shockingly like Pete Roses'......go ahead and continue with your hero worship, JJ but I think you've got it backwards: If he hadn't been a Yankee, he wouldn't even be in the DISCUSSION for the HOF.

[dbackjon]

Agree with Z on Mattingly. Better than average player, no where near worthy of HOF consideration.

[JoltinJoe]

Mattingly at his peak was so much better than Rose, there is no need to even compare the numbers. Mattingly hit higher -- like 30 points higher -- than Rose, and hit for power and production. And he was better defensively.

Rose was blessed with longetivity. Mattingly suffered a career-ending injury which caused his last years to be merely above average. The writers shortchange guys like Mattingly -- the very best at the game for an extended time, but whose careers are cut short. They worship numbers, like 3000 hits, or 500 HRs, no matter how long it takes for a guy to get there. Thus, an accumulator like Eddie Murray, who never sniffed the heights of Don Mattingly, gets in and Mattingly does not.

Any guy who can lay claim to being the game's very best player for as long as Mattingly was belongs in the Hall of Fame. And if he had not been a Yankee, he would have made it long ago.

While I agree with most of what you said about Rose, you REALLY need to take off the rose colored glasses regarding "Donny Baseball". "Very best at the game for an extended time"???? Mattingly had exactly THREE seasons in which he hit over 30 HR's. He had ONE amazing season in 1985 with 35 HR's and 145 RBI, two really good seasons after that in '86 and '87 and above average seasons in '84 and '89. That's IT. And I'd hardly call a three year stretch an "extended time".

Here's another "stretch" by Joltin' Joe: Mattingly's career batting average was exactly .004 higher that Pete Rose's. And that includes Rose's last several years in which he hit .271, .245, .286, .264 and .219.

Yeah, Rose hung on too long. Yeah, he didn't have a lot of power. But his career OBP is .375, while your hero's was .358. Pete also had 198 SB's, to Mr. Baseball's 14. Mattingly had 13 full seasons, only three of which he had less than 500 AB's. and for more than HALF of those 13, his power numbers looked shockingly like Pete Roses'......go ahead and continue with your hero worship, JJ but I think you've got it backwards: If he hadn't been a Yankee, he wouldn't even be in the DISCUSSION for the HOF.

Your comments about "above average" seasons are hilarious. The guy hits .343 and wins the batting title in 1984 and you call that season "above average."

The same holds true for saying 1986 and 1987 are "really good seasons." Or 1989 "above average."

Don Mattingly was baseball's best player from 1984 through 1988-89, and his reign was usurped by a steroid abuser, Jose Canseco.

If Mattingly has no case for the Hall of Fame, then take out Kirby Puckett, because their overall career numbers are about the same, and Puckett at his best was never as good as Mattingly at his best.

Stll, Mattingly has been honored with the greatest honor in baseball -- having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

[AZGrizFan]

Agree with Z on Mattingly. Better than average player, no where near worthy of HOF consideration.

Rose had a 9 year stretch where he never hit below .300, including years of .345, .338, .335. After a "down" year in 1984 in which he hit .285, he had ANOTHER 5 year stretch of +.300 years, including 1979 at the age of 38, when he hit .331. Mattingly had six years TOTAL over .300, including his highest of .352 and another of .343.

Rose had almost as many seasons of 200 hits as Mattingly had SEASONS, including getting 208 hits in 1979 at the age of 38.

Hell, even if Rose had ended his career RIGHT THEN, he'd have more "hall-worthy" numbers than Mattingly.

[JoltinJoe]

Agree with Z on Mattingly. Better than average player, no where near worthy of HOF consideration.

Rose had a 9 year stretch where he never hit below .300, including years of .345, .338, .335. After a "down" year in 1984 in which he hit .285, he had ANOTHER 5 year stretch of +.300 years, including 1979 at the age of 38, when he hit .331. Mattingly had six years TOTAL over .300, including his highest of .352 and another of .343.

Rose had almost as many seasons of 200 hits as Mattingly had SEASONS, including getting 208 hits in 1979 at the age of 38.

Hell, even if Rose had ended his career RIGHT THEN, he'd have more "hall-worthy" numbers than Mattingly.

"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." -- Mickey Mantle.

[AZGrizFan]

Your comments about "above average" seasons are hilarious. The guy hits .343 and wins the batting title in 1984 and you call that season "above average."

The same holds true for saying 1986 and 1987 are "really good seasons." Or 1989 "above average."

Don Mattingly was baseball's best player from 1984 through 1988-89, and his reign was usurped by a steroid abuser, Jose Canseco.

If Mattingly has no case for the Hall of Fame, then take out Kirby Puckett, because their overall career numbers are about the same, and Puckett at his best was never as good as Mattingly at his best.

In that 1984 season he also only had 23 HR's and ONE----that's right----ONE stolen base. He didn't score 100 runs and had an OBP BELOW .400, despite a .343 BA. Mattingly one ONE batting title-1984. Rose won 3. Mattingly NEVER led the league in OBP. Rose did twice. Mattingly had THREE seasons over 200 hits. Rose had TEN. Mattingly had 20 career triples. Rose had 135! It's proof beyond a reasonable doubt, counselor!

I might give you '85-'87, but including '84 and '88-'89 in your "best player" is friggin' laughable, Joe. Mattingly only had EIGHTEEN homeruns in '88, he didn't hit 100 RBI's or score 100 runs, and only hit .311.

You gotta stop drinkin' the koolaid, my friend. Mattingly was good. But you're right, he IS Kirby Puckett, and I don't think Kirby belongs in the Hall either.

[AZGrizFan]

Rose had a 9 year stretch where he never hit below .300, including years of .345, .338, .335. After a "down" year in 1984 in which he hit .285, he had ANOTHER 5 year stretch of +.300 years, including 1979 at the age of 38, when he hit .331. Mattingly had six years TOTAL over .300, including his highest of .352 and another of .343.

Rose had almost as many seasons of 200 hits as Mattingly had SEASONS, including getting 208 hits in 1979 at the age of 38.

Hell, even if Rose had ended his career RIGHT THEN, he'd have more "hall-worthy" numbers than Mattingly.

"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." -- Mickey Mantle.

Notice that it wasn't Mattingly that said that.

And if Mantle had played his career like Rose did, he'd have 750 HR's and would have been able to play 4-5 more seasons instead of crawling inside a fucking whiskey bottle.

[JoltinJoe]

Your comments about "above average" seasons are hilarious. The guy hits .343 and wins the batting title in 1984 and you call that season "above average."

The same holds true for saying 1986 and 1987 are "really good seasons." Or 1989 "above average."

Don Mattingly was baseball's best player from 1984 through 1988-89, and his reign was usurped by a steroid abuser, Jose Canseco.

If Mattingly has no case for the Hall of Fame, then take out Kirby Puckett, because their overall career numbers are about the same, and Puckett at his best was never as good as Mattingly at his best.

In that 1984 season he also only had 23 HR's and ONE----that's right----ONE stolen base. He didn't score 100 runs and had an OBP BELOW .400, despite a .343 BA. Mattingly one ONE batting title-1984. Rose won 3. Mattingly NEVER led the league in OBP. Rose did. Mattingly had THREE seasons over 200 hits. Rose had TEN. Mattingly had 20 career triples. Rose had 135!

I might give you '85-'87, but including '84 and '88-'89 in your "best player" is friggin' laughable, Joe. Mattingly only had EIGHTEEN homeruns in '88, he didn't hit 100 RBI's or score 100 runs, and only hit .311.

You gotta stop drinkin' the koolaid, my friend. Mattingly was good. But you're right, he IS Kirby Puckett, and I don't think Kirby belongs in the Hall either.

Mattingly was hurt in '88 and missed about 20 games. And back in the days before everything blew up, 25 HRs was a damn respectable number.

Besides, in his prime, Mattingly was an extra-base hit machine. Mattingly's power was to the gap. Take a look at his doubles.

[JoltinJoe]

"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." -- Mickey Mantle.

Notice that it wasn't Mattingly that said that.

And if Mantle had played his career like Rose did, he'd have 750 HR's and would have been able to play 4-5 more seasons instead of crawling inside a **** whiskey bottle.

That's BS. Mantle was the ultimate gamer. He had seven knee surgeries at a time when every surgery was invasive. Teammates use to marvel at the way Mantle played hurt. Mantle left baseball at age 36 because he could barely walk without pain. By his own admission, while he drank as a player, his alcoholism took root after he left baseball.

If Mantle had been blessed with health, his career numbers would be unbelievable. With as many at-bats as Henry Aaron, Mantle would have ended his career with 818 homers.

[BlueHen86]

Mattingly at his peak was so much better than Rose, there is no need to even compare the numbers. Mattingly hit higher -- like 30 points higher -- than Rose, and hit for power and production. And he was better defensively.

Rose was blessed with longetivity. Mattingly suffered a career-ending injury which caused his last years to be merely above average. The writers shortchange guys like Mattingly -- the very best at the game for an extended time, but whose careers are cut short. They worship numbers, like 3000 hits, or 500 HRs, no matter how long it takes for a guy to get there. Thus, an accumulator like Eddie Murray, who never sniffed the heights of Don Mattingly, gets in and Mattingly does not.

Any guy who can lay claim to being the game's very best player for as long as Mattingly was belongs in the Hall of Fame. And if he had not been a Yankee, he would have made it long ago.

While I agree with most of what you said about Rose, you REALLY need to take off the rose colored glasses regarding "Donny Baseball". "Very best at the game for an extended time"???? Mattingly had exactly THREE seasons in which he hit over 30 HR's. He had ONE amazing season in 1985 with 35 HR's and 145 RBI, two really good seasons after that in '86 and '87 and above average seasons in '84 and '89. That's IT. And I'd hardly call a three year stretch an "extended time".

Here's another "stretch" by Joltin' Joe: Mattingly's career batting average was exactly .004 higher that Pete Rose's. And that includes Rose's last several years in which he hit .271, .245, .286, .264 and .219.

Yeah, Rose hung on too long. Yeah, he didn't have a lot of power. But his career OBP is .375, while your hero's was .358. Pete also had 198 SB's, to Mr. Baseball's 14. Mattingly had 13 full seasons, only three of which he had less than 500 AB's. and for more than HALF of those 13, his power numbers looked shockingly like Pete Roses'......go ahead and continue with your hero worship, JJ but I think you've got it backwards: If he hadn't been a Yankee, he wouldn't even be in the DISCUSSION for the HOF.

I'd take Rose over Mattingly any day, as would most people who aren't blind Yankee homers. Rose is one of the great players of all time, Mattingly was one of the great players of the 80's.

Too bad Mattingly wasn't able to hang around long enough to accumulate the numbers and World Series rings that Rose has.

[AZGrizFan]

In that 1984 season he also only had 23 HR's and ONE----that's right----ONE stolen base. He didn't score 100 runs and had an OBP BELOW .400, despite a .343 BA. Mattingly one ONE batting title-1984. Rose won 3. Mattingly NEVER led the league in OBP. Rose did. Mattingly had THREE seasons over 200 hits. Rose had TEN. Mattingly had 20 career triples. Rose had 135!

I might give you '85-'87, but including '84 and '88-'89 in your "best player" is friggin' laughable, Joe. Mattingly only had EIGHTEEN homeruns in '88, he didn't hit 100 RBI's or score 100 runs, and only hit .311.

You gotta stop drinkin' the koolaid, my friend. Mattingly was good. But you're right, he IS Kirby Puckett, and I don't think Kirby belongs in the Hall either.

Mattingly was hurt in '88 and missed about 20 games. And back in the days before everything blew up, 25 HRs was a damn respectable number.

Besides, in his prime, Mattingly was an extra-base hit machine. Mattingly's power was to the gap. Take a look at his doubles.

Rose wins: 746/442.

Take a look at Roses' triples.

And if 25 HR's was "damned respectable", lets start championing Steve Garvey for the Hall.

[BlueHen86]

Notice that it wasn't Mattingly that said that.

And if Mantle had played his career like Rose did, he'd have 750 HR's and would have been able to play 4-5 more seasons instead of crawling inside a **** whiskey bottle.

That's BS. Mantle was the ultimate gamer. He had seven knee surgeries at a time when every surgery was invasive. Teammates use to marvel at the way Mantle played hurt. Mantle left baseball at age 36 because he could barely walk without pain. By his own admission, while he drank as a player, his alcoholism took root after he left baseball.

If Mantle had been blessed with health, his career numbers would be unbelievable. With as many at-bats as Henry Aaron, Mantle would have ended his career with 818 homers.

That's 414 homers per liver.

[JoltinJoe]

That's BS. Mantle was the ultimate gamer. He had seven knee surgeries at a time when every surgery was invasive. Teammates use to marvel at the way Mantle played hurt. Mantle left baseball at age 36 because he could barely walk without pain. By his own admission, while he drank as a player, his alcoholism took root after he left baseball.

If Mantle had been blessed with health, his career numbers would be unbelievable. With as many at-bats as Henry Aaron, Mantle would have ended his career with 818 homers.

That's 414 homers per liver.

Incidentally, another myth is that Mantle drank himself to death. In fact, he had been clean for two years. His liver ailment was caused by Hepatitis-C, which was caused by a tainted blood transfusion during one of his knee surgeries.

[AZGrizFan]

Notice that it wasn't Mattingly that said that.

And if Mantle had played his career like Rose did, he'd have 750 HR's and would have been able to play 4-5 more seasons instead of crawling inside a **** whiskey bottle.

That's BS. Mantle was the ultimate gamer. He had seven knee surgeries at a time when every surgery was invasive. Teammates use to marvel at the way Mantle played hurt. Mantle left baseball at age 36 because he could barely walk without pain. By his own admission, while he drank as a player, his alcoholism took root after he left baseball.

If Mantle had been blessed with health, his career numbers would be unbelievable. With as many at-bats as Henry Aaron, Mantle would have ended his career with 818 homers.

OK, I admit it: I only said that to get your gander up.

But still, notice that it was NOT Mattingly who said that.

[andy7171]

2153 hits and 222 homeruns doesn't make for Cooperstown. Half of those HRs came in 4 of his 12 seasons.

[BlueHen86]

That's 414 homers per liver.

Incidentally, another myth is that Mantle drank himself to death. In fact, he had been clean for two years. His liver ailment was caused by Hepatitis-C, which was caused by a tainted blood transfusion during one of his knee surgeries.

I'll take the comment back. I like Mantle, he was a gamer and it sucks that he got hurt. One of his last homers went over my head at Yankee stadium.

[AZGrizFan]

Incidentally, another myth is that Mantle drank himself to death. In fact, he had been clean for two years. His liver ailment was caused by Hepatitis-C, which was caused by a tainted blood transfusion during one of his knee surgeries.

I'll take the comment back. I like Mantle, he was a gamer and it sucks that he got hurt. One of his last homers went over my head at Yankee stadium.

I liked Mantle too, which is why I admitted I only said it to get under Joe's skin.

But he's dead wrong about Mattingly.

[JoltinJoe]

I'll take the comment back. I like Mantle, he was a gamer and it sucks that he got hurt. One of his last homers went over my head at Yankee stadium.

I liked Mantle too, which is why I admitted I only said it to get under Joe's skin.

But he's dead wrong about Mattingly.

Hey look, if you say yank out Puckett, then you're being consistent.

[BlueHen86]

I liked Mantle too, which is why I admitted I only said it to get under Joe's skin.

But he's dead wrong about Mattingly.

Hey look, if you say yank out Puckett, then you're being consistent.

Puckett does have 2 WS rings, I'm sure that helped him in the voting.

[BlueHen86]

I liked Mantle too, which is why I admitted I only said it to get under Joe's skin.

But he's dead wrong about Mattingly.

Hey look, if you say yank out Puckett, then you're being consistent.

Interesting choice of words.

[JoltinJoe]

2153 hits and 222 homeruns doesn't make for Cooperstown. Half of those HRs came in 4 of his 12 seasons.

Mattingly would have been better off if he had a brilliant season every third or fourth year, like Cal Ripkin, rather than bunch them all together like he did.

[BlueHen86]

2153 hits and 222 homeruns doesn't make for Cooperstown. Half of those HRs came in 4 of his 12 seasons.

Mattingly would have been better off if he had a brilliant season every third or fourth year, like Cal Ripkin, rather than bunch them all together like he did.

That and play in 2632 straight games and hit another 209 homers.

[AZGrizFan]

2153 hits and 222 homeruns doesn't make for Cooperstown. Half of those HRs came in 4 of his 12 seasons.

Mattingly would have been better off if he had a brilliant season every third or fourth year, like Cal Ripkin, rather than bunch them all together like he did.

Mattingly would have been better off if he'd had 3 or 4 brilliant seasons instead of one.

[AZGrizFan]

I liked Mantle too, which is why I admitted I only said it to get under Joe's skin.

But he's dead wrong about Mattingly.

Hey look, if you say yank out Puckett, then you're being consistent.

In that 1984 season he also only had 23 HR's and ONE----that's right----ONE stolen base. He didn't score 100 runs and had an OBP BELOW .400, despite a .343 BA. Mattingly one ONE batting title-1984. Rose won 3. Mattingly NEVER led the league in OBP. Rose did twice. Mattingly had THREE seasons over 200 hits. Rose had TEN. Mattingly had 20 career triples. Rose had 135! It's proof beyond a reasonable doubt, counselor!

I might give you '85-'87, but including '84 and '88-'89 in your "best player" is friggin' laughable, Joe. Mattingly only had EIGHTEEN homeruns in '88, he didn't hit 100 RBI's or score 100 runs, and only hit .311.

You gotta stop drinkin' the koolaid, my friend. Mattingly was good. But you're right, he IS Kirby Puckett, and I don't think Kirby belongs in the Hall either.

I believe I DID say that.