Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by JMU DJ »

Chizzang wrote:
JMU DJ wrote:Image
Dude I get it... Nobody cares - or - That sounds crazy :nod:
But do some research and tell me what part of this below is not 100% accurate

1)
The FED creates money from nothing (literally) and loans it back to us through banks...
And then has the balls to charge interest on that currency.
Then in one stunningly bizarre slap in the face buys our Government debt (which it created) with money printed on a printing press by the bureau of printing that it runs and charges U.S. taxpayers interest.


take your time... :nod:

That was more in response to your "Media" aspect... the way you wrote it made me think of that photo. Especially with the "call me crazy" ending...


Conspiracy Theorist 101: I'm not crazy, but people call me crazy. :lol:
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Chizzang »

I'm curious why there is so little interest in the FEDERAL RESERVE on a political forum..?

The Fed has been fleecing American tax payers for decades and nobody seems to care

Question:
1) Why should our Federal Government pay interest on it's own money..?
2) Why should a private organization create U.S. dollars (out of thin air) Shouldn't the actual Federal Government do that..?
3) Why should the private organization that creates our money and then bills us for our own money not be audited by a federal organization..?
4) If we quit paying interest to the FED on U.S. dollars (our own money) the estimated tax relief would be in excess of 60 Billion a year

:nod:

Why is NOBODY interested in this..?
Why does the U.S. Media have ZERO to say about this..?
Why has there only been one president (Kennedy) who ever tried to shut down the Federal Reserve..?

:wall:
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by AZGrizFan »

Might explain why he was eliminated...
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Chizzang »

AZGrizFan wrote:Might explain why he was eliminated...
Obama is a big supporter of the Federal Reserve system... and that's just plain SAD
Reagan didn't do anything about it - but he openly didn't like it...

Clinton had no comment
Both Bush's have no comment - obviously - they have family members on the boards of 1/2 the Federal Reserve banks that make up the controlling interest

:jack: it's an interesting circle jerk
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Might explain why he was eliminated...
Obama is a big supporter of the Federal Reserve system... and that's just plain SAD
Reagan didn't do anything about it - but he openly didn't like it...

Clinton had no comment
Both Bush's have no comment - obviously - they have family members on the boards of 1/2 the Federal Reserve banks that make up the controlling interest

:jack: it's an interesting circle jerk
Didn't Old Hickory have a dust up over this? Or maybe he was scuffling with private banks, I don't remember.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Pwns »

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Ursus A. Horribilis »

Chizzangy, I find it all very interesting. Your problem with getting the discussion rolling is that you didn't feign any weakness in your argument to draw others in. You have a very Ron Paulesque argument going there so I think you know who to vote for if he runs again. :thumb:

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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by CitadelGrad »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote: Obama is a big supporter of the Federal Reserve system... and that's just plain SAD
Reagan didn't do anything about it - but he openly didn't like it...

Clinton had no comment
Both Bush's have no comment - obviously - they have family members on the boards of 1/2 the Federal Reserve banks that make up the controlling interest

:jack: it's an interesting circle jerk
Didn't Old Hickory have a dust up over this? Or maybe he was scuffling with private banks, I don't remember.
The Fed came along long after Old Hickory's death.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by JoltinJoe »

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Chizzangy, I find it all very interesting. Your problem with getting the discussion rolling is that you didn't feign any weakness in your argument to draw others in. You have a very Ron Paulesque argument going there so I think you know who to vote for if he runs again. :thumb:

It's that, or everybody agrees with ya.
Or it's just that perhaps some of us are so well aware of the pervasive misinformation found so easily on the internet about the Federal Reserve that we know it is pointless to argue over this. For example, if I were to say the alleged list of "owners" of the Federal Reserve is nonsense, it is easy to find many, many internet sources, almost immediately, that would "confirm" this list of owners.

And ditto if I were to say that the characterization of the Federal Reserve as "private," and more accurately, it should be described as a public agency which is, in part, owned by private banks (every participating bank in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Bank must by law buy shares in its regional Federal Reserve).

For some reason (which I actually understand but would rather not get into a debate over), there is as much pervasive misinformation about the Federal Reserve spread on the internet as there is about the Roman Catholic Church (which I also understand but would rather not get into a debate over).

Moreover, this is not to say that there isn't significant merit to the complaint that it is unwise and imprudent to place such enormous, non-reviewable discretion into the hands of delegated authority to control our national monetary policy. The only F'ing place where there are boom times right now is Wall Street -- pop the champage, 2009 was a great year! Meanwhile, I see the rest of real America pass through my office (a bankruptcy law firm) every day. What is galling is watching Wall Street grab its 2007-level bonuses, when it was those geniuses who screwed the rest of us over in the first place.

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/federal-reserve-ownership
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:
Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Chizzangy, I find it all very interesting. Your problem with getting the discussion rolling is that you didn't feign any weakness in your argument to draw others in. You have a very Ron Paulesque argument going there so I think you know who to vote for if he runs again. :thumb:

It's that, or everybody agrees with ya.
Or it's just that perhaps some of us are so well aware of the pervasive misinformation found so easily on the internet about the Federal Reserve that we know it is pointless to argue over this. For example, if I were to say the alleged list of "owners" of the Federal Reserve is nonsense, it is easy to find many, many internet sources, almost immediately, that would "confirm" this list of owners.

And ditto if I were to say that the characterization of the Federal Reserve as "private," and more accurately, it should be described as a public agency which is, in part, owned by private banks (every participating bank in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Bank must by law buy shares in its regional Federal Reserve).

For some reason (which I actually understand but would rather not get into a debate over), there is as much pervasive misinformation about the Federal Reserve spread on the internet as there is about the Roman Catholic Church (which I also understand but would rather not get into a debate over).

Moreover, this is not to say that there isn't significant merit to the complaint that it is unwise and imprudent to place such enormous, non-reviewable discretion into the hands of delegated authority to control our national monetary policy. The only F'ing place where there are boom times right now is Wall Street -- pop the champage, 2009 was a great year! Meanwhile, I see the rest of real America pass through my office (a bankruptcy law firm) every day. What is galling is watching Wall Street grab its 2007-level bonuses, when it was those geniuses who screwed the rest of us over in the first place.

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/federal-reserve-ownership


The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. It was created in 1913, with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, and was largely a response to prior financial panics and bank runs, the most severe of which being the Panic of 1907.[1][2][3] Over time, the roles and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve System have expanded and its structure has evolved.[2][4] Events such as the Great Depression were some of the major factors leading to changes in the system.[5] Its duties today, according to official Federal Reserve documentation, fall into four general areas:[6]

1.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.
2.Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.
3.Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.
4.Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.


Chizzang's conspiracy theories aside, it's not much of stretch to see the failures of the Fed in performing it's duties and as you point out, the success of Wall Street and consolidation of banking power during this recession.

You can lump Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich right in there with Ron Paul concerning the Fed. A democratic socialist, a liberal democrat, and a libertarian social conservative. Strange bedfellows.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Or it's just that perhaps some of us are so well aware of the pervasive misinformation found so easily on the internet about the Federal Reserve that we know it is pointless to argue over this. For example, if I were to say the alleged list of "owners" of the Federal Reserve is nonsense, it is easy to find many, many internet sources, almost immediately, that would "confirm" this list of owners.

And ditto if I were to say that the characterization of the Federal Reserve as "private," and more accurately, it should be described as a public agency which is, in part, owned by private banks (every participating bank in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Bank must by law buy shares in its regional Federal Reserve).

For some reason (which I actually understand but would rather not get into a debate over), there is as much pervasive misinformation about the Federal Reserve spread on the internet as there is about the Roman Catholic Church (which I also understand but would rather not get into a debate over).

Moreover, this is not to say that there isn't significant merit to the complaint that it is unwise and imprudent to place such enormous, non-reviewable discretion into the hands of delegated authority to control our national monetary policy. The only F'ing place where there are boom times right now is Wall Street -- pop the champage, 2009 was a great year! Meanwhile, I see the rest of real America pass through my office (a bankruptcy law firm) every day. What is galling is watching Wall Street grab its 2007-level bonuses, when it was those geniuses who screwed the rest of us over in the first place.

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/federal-reserve-ownership


The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. It was created in 1913, with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, and was largely a response to prior financial panics and bank runs, the most severe of which being the Panic of 1907.[1][2][3] Over time, the roles and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve System have expanded and its structure has evolved.[2][4] Events such as the Great Depression were some of the major factors leading to changes in the system.[5] Its duties today, according to official Federal Reserve documentation, fall into four general areas:[6]

1.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.
2.Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.
3.Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.
4.Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.


Chizzang's conspiracy theories aside, it's not much of stretch to see the failures of the Fed in performing it's duties and as you point out, the success of Wall Street and consolidation of banking power during this recession.

You can lump Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich right in there with Ron Paul concerning the Fed. A democratic socialist, a liberal democrat, and a libertarian social conservative. Strange bedfellows.

And with all this readily available bad information about the Federal reserve nobody anywhere at any level in Politics or the Banking industry refutes or even attempts to deny the below:

The Federal Reserve
1) Charges the US government interest on it's own money
2) Is not available to be audited by the US Federal Government
3) Is a privately held organization not managed or controlled by any branch of the US government
4) The tax relief for America by shutting down the current FED system would be HUGE


:nod:
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by AZGrizFan »

Chizzang wrote:4) The tax relief for America by shutting down the current FED system would be HUGE


:nod:
That's like pissin' in the wind. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by JoltinJoe »

kalm wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Or it's just that perhaps some of us are so well aware of the pervasive misinformation found so easily on the internet about the Federal Reserve that we know it is pointless to argue over this. For example, if I were to say the alleged list of "owners" of the Federal Reserve is nonsense, it is easy to find many, many internet sources, almost immediately, that would "confirm" this list of owners.

And ditto if I were to say that the characterization of the Federal Reserve as "private," and more accurately, it should be described as a public agency which is, in part, owned by private banks (every participating bank in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Bank must by law buy shares in its regional Federal Reserve).

For some reason (which I actually understand but would rather not get into a debate over), there is as much pervasive misinformation about the Federal Reserve spread on the internet as there is about the Roman Catholic Church (which I also understand but would rather not get into a debate over).

Moreover, this is not to say that there isn't significant merit to the complaint that it is unwise and imprudent to place such enormous, non-reviewable discretion into the hands of delegated authority to control our national monetary policy. The only F'ing place where there are boom times right now is Wall Street -- pop the champage, 2009 was a great year! Meanwhile, I see the rest of real America pass through my office (a bankruptcy law firm) every day. What is galling is watching Wall Street grab its 2007-level bonuses, when it was those geniuses who screwed the rest of us over in the first place.

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/federal-reserve-ownership


The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. It was created in 1913, with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, and was largely a response to prior financial panics and bank runs, the most severe of which being the Panic of 1907.[1][2][3] Over time, the roles and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve System have expanded and its structure has evolved.[2][4] Events such as the Great Depression were some of the major factors leading to changes in the system.[5] Its duties today, according to official Federal Reserve documentation, fall into four general areas:[6]

1.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.
2.Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.
3.Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.
4.Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.


Chizzang's conspiracy theories aside, it's not much of stretch to see the failures of the Fed in performing it's duties and as you point out, the success of Wall Street and consolidation of banking power during this recession.

You can lump Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich right in there with Ron Paul concerning the Fed. A democratic socialist, a liberal democrat, and a libertarian social conservative. Strange bedfellows.
There are many causes of our current economic climate; however, a significant cause was the failure of the federal government to institute regulation of derivatives trading. The derivatives markets experienced enormous expansion throughout the 1990s and 2000s, and fueled wild profits for financial institutions. Nonetheless, Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, insisted there was no need to regulate the derivatives markets, and because he was then considered nearly god-like, congress took no steps to supervise the trading of derivatives.

This is the real problem of the Fed. It has nearly unreviewable authority to establish our national monetary policy, and it is run by bankers who see the economy through the prism of the banking world. What is good for the banks; what is good for Wall Street; is good for America. Derivative trading was a boon for the financial industry, so the Fed asked, "Why regulate it?"

A lot of what is said about the Fed is patently wrong. However, it is unwise to delegate so much authority to regulate and control our financial system and ultimately our economy to unelected body with so much unreviewable authority. This is why Reagan and Kennedy both distrusted the Fed. In a constitutional system otherwise rife with checks and balances, the Fed is a big government creation answerable almost to no one.

Otherwise, see:

http://www.famguardian1.org/Subjects/Mo ... pire.htm#7
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Chizzang »

1/2 the truth Joe is worse than an outright lie..!!!
Flaherty presents 1/2 the story as he is directed to do

Flaherty:
Hypothesis: Each of the 12 Federal Reserve banks is a privately owned corporation. Like any firm, their main objective is to maximize profits. They do so by lending the government money and charging interest. They manipulate monetary policy for their own gain, not for the public good. Facts: Yes, the Federal Reserve banks are privately owned, but they are controlled by the publicly-appointed Board of Governors. The Federal Reserve banks merely execute the monetary policy choices made by the Board.

Griffin: Basically, Flaherty is correct as far as he goes. But, he stops short of the entire truth.

Flaherty says that the Board of Governors is politically appointed. This is true and it is supposed to make us feel safe in the thought that the President responds to the will of the people and that he selects only those who have the public interest at heart. The part of the story omitted by Flaherty is that the President does not select these people from his own personal address book, nor does he ask the public to submit nominations. With few exceptions, he makes appointments from lists given to him by the staffs of banking committees of Congress and from private sources that have been influential in his election campaign. The most powerful of all these groups are the financial institutions (including prominent members of the Fed itself) and the media corporations over which they have effective control. One does not have to be a so-called conspiracy theorist to recognize the tremendous influence that these institutions have over the outcome of presidential campaigns, and anyone with knowledge of how our current political system works will understand why the President makes exactly the appointments that the banks want him to make. All one has to do to see the accuracy of this appraisal is to examine the backgrounds and attitudes of the men who receive the appointments. While there is an occasional token individual who appears to come from the consumer sector of society, the majority are bankers deeply committed to the perpetuation of the system that sustains them. Anyone who would seriously challenge the power of the banking cartel would never be appointed. So, while Flaherty is correct in what he says, the implication of what he says (that the Fed is subject to control of the people through the political process) is entirely false.

Flaherty is not fond of "the whole story"
there's an entire book of debate between Griffen and Flaherty - about 500 pages
Flaherty is a mouth piece
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Chizzang »

Here's the book everybody should read...

http://www.realityzone.com/creature.html

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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by JoltinJoe »

Chizzang wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:

1.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.
2.Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.
3.Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.
4.Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.[/color]

Chizzang's conspiracy theories aside, it's not much of stretch to see the failures of the Fed in performing it's duties and as you point out, the success of Wall Street and consolidation of banking power during this recession.

You can lump Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich right in there with Ron Paul concerning the Fed. A democratic socialist, a liberal democrat, and a libertarian social conservative. Strange bedfellows.

1/2 the truth Joe is worse than an outright lie..!!!
Flaherty presents 1/2 the story as he is directed to do

Flaherty:
Hypothesis: Each of the 12 Federal Reserve banks is a privately owned corporation. Like any firm, their main objective is to maximize profits. They do so by lending the government money and charging interest. They manipulate monetary policy for their own gain, not for the public good. Facts: Yes, the Federal Reserve banks are privately owned, but they are controlled by the publicly-appointed Board of Governors. The Federal Reserve banks merely execute the monetary policy choices made by the Board.

Griffin: Basically, Flaherty is correct as far as he goes. But, he stops short of the entire truth. A half-truth is just as much of a deception as an outright lie.

Flaherty says that the Board of Governors is politically appointed. This is true and it is supposed to make us feel safe in the thought that the President responds to the will of the people and that he selects only those who have the public interest at heart. The part of the story omitted by Flaherty is that the President does not select these people from his own personal address book, nor does he ask the public to submit nominations. With few exceptions, he makes appointments from lists given to him by the staffs of banking committees of Congress and from private sources that have been influential in his election campaign. The most powerful of all these groups are the financial institutions (including prominent members of the Fed itself) and the media corporations over which they have effective control. One does not have to be a so-called conspiracy theorist to recognize the tremendous influence that these institutions have over the outcome of presidential campaigns, and anyone with knowledge of how our current political system works will understand why the President makes exactly the appointments that the banks want him to make. All one has to do to see the accuracy of this appraisal is to examine the backgrounds and attitudes of the men who receive the appointments. While there is an occasional token individual who appears to come from the consumer sector of society, the majority are bankers deeply committed to the perpetuation of the system that sustains them. Anyone who would seriously challenge the power of the banking cartel would never be appointed. So, while Flaherty is correct in what he says, the implication of what he says (that the Fed is subject to control of the people through the political process) is entirely false.

Flaherty is not fond of "the whole story"
there's an entire book of debate between Griffen and Flaherty - about 500 pages
Flaherty is a mouth piece[/quote]

Don't know why the quote thing isn't working, so I'll put my response in bold.

I agree with you completely that, practically speaking, the Federal Reserve is controlled by bankers and view the world from that perspective. And there is no greater example of that its embrace of derivatives trading, and its insistence that this did not need to be regulated. It is accepted as Gospel truth among the Masters of the Universe that the packaging of debt portfolios into securities-like products which could be bought and sold was the best thing since Cocoa Puffs -- because the risk of lending had now been shifted from being borne by the banks onto the financial system as a whole, thereby mitigating risk for all. Well, we see this is now that this is not the case at all; that all this did was encourage enormous risk-taking on the theory that the risk could be mitigated by packaging and selling it like securties. And none of this was regulated. (On the lighter side, it is now somewhat amusing that loans have been sold and packaged so many times, that when a borrower defaults, sometimes the servicer who sues to foreclose cannot find the original paper, often bring the foreclosure case to a standstill. :rofl: ).

Take a look at this article from Business Week from some years back. My brother is quoted in this story questioning whether there is sloppy underwriting being encouraged by this system. He is immediately scoffed at by another. The last line of this article really hits home post-breakdown.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 805098.htm

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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:
kalm wrote:


The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. It was created in 1913, with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, and was largely a response to prior financial panics and bank runs, the most severe of which being the Panic of 1907.[1][2][3] Over time, the roles and responsibilities of the Federal Reserve System have expanded and its structure has evolved.[2][4] Events such as the Great Depression were some of the major factors leading to changes in the system.[5] Its duties today, according to official Federal Reserve documentation, fall into four general areas:[6]

1.Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.
2.Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.
3.Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.
4.Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.


Chizzang's conspiracy theories aside, it's not much of stretch to see the failures of the Fed in performing it's duties and as you point out, the success of Wall Street and consolidation of banking power during this recession.

You can lump Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich right in there with Ron Paul concerning the Fed. A democratic socialist, a liberal democrat, and a libertarian social conservative. Strange bedfellows.
There are many causes of our current economic climate; however, a significant cause was the failure of the federal government to institute regulation of derivatives trading. The derivatives markets experienced enormous expansion throughout the 1990s and 2000s, and fueled wild profits for financial institutions. Nonetheless, Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, insisted there was no need to regulate the derivatives markets, and because he was then considered nearly god-like, congress took no steps to supervise the trading of derivatives.

This is the real problem of the Fed. It has nearly unreviewable authority to establish our national monetary policy, and it is run by bankers who see the economy through the prism of the banking world. What is good for the banks; what is good for Wall Street; is good for America. Derivative trading was a boon for the financial industry, so the Fed asked, "Why regulate it?"

A lot of what is said about the Fed is patently wrong. However, it is unwise to delegate so much authority to regulate and control our financial system and ultimately our economy to unelected body with so much unreviewable authority. This is why Reagan and Kennedy both distrusted the Fed. In a constitutional system otherwise rife with checks and balances, the Fed is a big government creation answerable almost to no one.

Otherwise, see:

http://www.famguardian1.org/Subjects/Mo ... pire.htm#7
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by OSBF »

I don't know if the fed is a good thing or a bad thing, if it is corrupt beyond repair or operates on the up and up. But, the question I do have is this, if we eliminate the fed, who would you propose take over the vital regulatory role they are responsible for in the here and now?
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Pwns »

OSBF wrote:I don't know if the fed is a good thing or a bad thing, if it is corrupt beyond repair or operates on the up and up. But, the question I do have is this, if we eliminate the fed, who would you propose take over the vital regulatory role they are responsible for in the here and now?
Vital regulatory role? We did just fine for more than a century without it. In fact, all three of the worst economic downturns (and maybe more) happened after the fed was started. And even Bernanke acknowledges the fed caused the great depression.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:
OSBF wrote:I don't know if the fed is a good thing or a bad thing, if it is corrupt beyond repair or operates on the up and up. But, the question I do have is this, if we eliminate the fed, who would you propose take over the vital regulatory role they are responsible for in the here and now?
Vital regulatory role? We did just fine for more than a century without it. In fact, all three of the worst economic downturns (and maybe more) happened after the fed was started. And even Bernanke acknowledges the fed caused the great depression.
The panic of 1907 and the worldwide economic crisis in the 1860's/1870's are partially what led to the fed.

The fed causing the Great Depression is an interesting theory, care to expand?
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by CID1990 »

CitadelGrad wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Didn't Old Hickory have a dust up over this? Or maybe he was scuffling with private banks, I don't remember.
The Fed came along long after Old Hickory's death.
That's right, now that I recall.

But didn't he have some kind of a fight against the establishment of just such a currency reserve? I would need to go back and look through a couple books and I am too lazy to do that right now. I do think that one of Jackson's biggest problems was the fuzzy boundary between large private banks and the Federal monetary system.

Or maybe I am just going crazy.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
The Fed came along long after Old Hickory's death.
That's right, now that I recall.

But didn't he have some kind of a fight against the establishment of just such a currency reserve? I would need to go back and look through a couple books and I am too lazy to do that right now. I do think that one of Jackson's biggest problems was the fuzzy boundary between large private banks and the Federal monetary system.

Or maybe I am just going crazy.
You might be going crazy but not on this topic.

From wikipedia (and similar to what I remember reading in American Lion):
The Second Bank of the United States was authorized for a twenty year period during James Madison's tenure in 1816. As President, Jackson worked to rescind the bank's federal charter. In Jackson's veto message (written by George Bancroft), the bank needed to be abolished because:

- It concentrated the nation's financial strength in a single institution.
- It exposed the government to control by foreign interests.
- It served mainly to make the rich richer.
- It exercised too much control over members of Congress.
- It favored northeastern states over southern and western states.

Following Jefferson, Jackson supported an "agricultural republic" and felt the Bank improved the fortunes of an "elite circle" of commercial and industrial entrepreneurs at the expense of farmers and laborers. After a titanic struggle, Jackson succeeded in destroying the Bank by vetoing its 1832 re-charter by Congress and by withdrawing U.S. funds in 1833.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by Grizalltheway »

UNI88 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
That's right, now that I recall.

But didn't he have some kind of a fight against the establishment of just such a currency reserve? I would need to go back and look through a couple books and I am too lazy to do that right now. I do think that one of Jackson's biggest problems was the fuzzy boundary between large private banks and the Federal monetary system.

Or maybe I am just going crazy.
You might be going crazy but not on this topic.

From wikipedia (and similar to what I remember reading in American Lion):
The Second Bank of the United States was authorized for a twenty year period during James Madison's tenure in 1816. As President, Jackson worked to rescind the bank's federal charter. In Jackson's veto message (written by George Bancroft), the bank needed to be abolished because:

- It concentrated the nation's financial strength in a single institution.
- It exposed the government to control by foreign interests.
- It served mainly to make the rich richer.
- It exercised too much control over members of Congress.
- It favored northeastern states over southern and western states.

Following Jefferson, Jackson supported an "agricultural republic" and felt the Bank improved the fortunes of an "elite circle" of commercial and industrial entrepreneurs at the expense of farmers and laborers. After a titanic struggle, Jackson succeeded in destroying the Bank by vetoing its 1832 re-charter by Congress and by withdrawing U.S. funds in 1833.
Sounds like he would've despised the Fed as well, had he been around when it was founded. :nod:
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by UNI88 »

Grizalltheway wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
You might be going crazy but not on this topic.

From wikipedia (and similar to what I remember reading in American Lion):
Sounds like he would've despised the Fed as well, had he been around when it was founded. :nod:
He would have. But I also left off the 2nd half of the wiki entry on the "bank war"
The bank's money-lending functions were taken over by the legions of local and state banks that sprang up. This fed an expansion of credit and speculation. At first, as Jackson withdrew money from the Bank to invest it in other banks, land sales, canal construction, cotton production, and manufacturing boomed.[28] However, due to the practice of banks issuing paper banknotes that were not backed by gold or silver reserves, there was soon rapid inflation and mounting state debts.[29] Then, in 1836, Jackson issued the Specie Circular, which required buyers of government lands to pay in "specie" (gold or silver coins). The result was a great demand for specie, which many banks did not have enough of to exchange for their notes. These banks collapsed.[28] This was a direct cause of the Panic of 1837, which threw the national economy into a deep depression. It took years for the economy to recover from the damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jac ... ional_Bank

Even 170 years ago politicians were making knee-jerk decisions without considering or planning for the potential ramifications.
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Re: Federal Reserve earned $45 billion in 2009

Post by ASUMountaineer »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote: Obama is a big supporter of the Federal Reserve system... and that's just plain SAD
Reagan didn't do anything about it - but he openly didn't like it...

Clinton had no comment
Both Bush's have no comment - obviously - they have family members on the boards of 1/2 the Federal Reserve banks that make up the controlling interest

:jack: it's an interesting circle jerk
Didn't Old Hickory have a dust up over this? Or maybe he was scuffling with private banks, I don't remember.
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