Roe v Wade Anniversary

[89Hen]

I believe that abortion is the heinous elective killing of a human being...

If a woman wants to go have an abortion, then have at it.

A very strange position IMO.

[93henfan]

My friend...you can not be both...

Correct. You can say you personally would never choose to end life, but you can't be "pro life" and for choice.

Nonsense. Like I said, I'm personally pro-life. I think abortion is terrible and would never make the choice (if I were a woman) to have one, except in certain rare, terribly unfortunate circumstances (rape, survivability of the fetus, etc.). That being said, I also don't think a church or government has the right to make this decision for other people. They'll have to make their own decision and live with their own spirituality.

[Col Hogan]

Correct. You can say you personally would never choose to end life, but you can't be "pro life" and for choice.

Nonsense. Like I said, I'm personally pro-life. I think abortion is terrible and would never make the choice (if I were a woman) to have one, except in certain rare, terribly unfortunate circumstances (rape, survivability of the fetus, etc.). That being said, I also don't think a church or government has the right to make this decision for other people. They'll have to make their own decision and live with their own spirituality.

For the sake of conversation...remove spirtuality...

Do you believe that abortion is murder...do you believe that life begins at conception???

[Appaholic]

Nonsense. Like I said, I'm personally pro-life. I think abortion is terrible and would never make the choice (if I were a woman) to have one, except in certain rare, terribly unfortunate circumstances (rape, survivability of the fetus, etc.). That being said, I also don't think a church or government has the right to make this decision for other people. They'll have to make their own decision and live with their own spirituality.

For the sake of conversation...remove spirtuality...

Do you believe that abortion is murder...do you believe that life begins at conception???

Nope...no more than someone dying on an operating table is murder...why is it so hard to reconcile your personal beliefs & refusing to mandate or legislate your personal beliefs on other persons?

[89Hen]

I also don't think a church or government has the right to make this decision for other people.

You can go ahead and leave church out of the equation. I'm not against abortion because of my religion. I am against it because I'm human and logical.

Do you not think a government has the right to make murder illegal?

[89Hen]

Nope...no more than someone dying on an operating table is murder..

WOW, talk about apples and oranges. NO logic to that thinking holic. Usually when somebody is on an operating table you're trying to save their life (or they're having elective surgery).

[Appaholic]

I also don't think a church or government has the right to make this decision for other people.

You can go ahead and leave church out of the equation. I'm not against abortion because of my religion. I am against it because I'm human and logical.

Do you not think a government has the right to make murder illegal?

Not trying to speak for 93, but how can you be logical & consider abortion murder...some cases yes, some cases no...not clear cut anymore than someone killed in an auot accident is murder...pretty extreme view...

[Appaholic]

Nope...no more than someone dying on an operating table is murder..

WOW, talk about apples and oranges. NO logic to that thinking holic. Usually when somebody is on an operating table you're trying to save their life (or they're having elective surgery).

What if you have to abort the fetus to save the mother? Is that murder? Which side? apples to apples IMO...

[93henfan]

Do you believe that abortion is murder...

It depends on the circumstances.

do you believe that life begins at conception???

Not in my opinion.

[93henfan]

Do you not think a government has the right to make murder illegal?

Yes.

[Col Hogan]

Do you not think a government has the right to make murder illegal?

Yes.

Pretty quick edit there, my friend...

I'm glad to see you don't want to go there...

[93henfan]

Yes.

Pretty quick edit there, my friend...

I'm glad to see you don't want to go there...

I thought about it for a sec and had to pull it. For those perplexed, my comment was in regard to extermination of humans by the US military.

[Appaholic]

Yes.

Pretty quick edit there, my friend...

I'm glad to see you don't want to go there...

Why? It isn't true? Killing people who threathen you is justified. OK. How about aborting a fetus that will kill you if carried to term?

[89Hen]

Not trying to speak for 93, but how can you be logical & consider abortion murder...

How can you be logical and not? My thinking...

I think pretty much everyone agrees that killing a one day old child is murder. Agreed?

What about a baby that is one day from being born? I'd have to say 99.99% of people would agree to that (and leave out the "mother in jeopardy" clause because that's less than 1% of abortions). Agreed?

How about at 8 months? Still going to say well over 90% on board. Agreed?

So at what point is it not OK? I'm not in any position to make that call... are you?

[Col Hogan]

Pretty quick edit there, my friend...

I'm glad to see you don't want to go there...

Why? It isn't true? Killing people who threathen you is justified. OK. How about aborting a fetus that will kill you if carried to term?

And what percentage of abortions performed today in the US fall into that category...



Hint: Percentage wise, start out with a . and a zero...

[89Hen]

How about aborting a fetus that will kill you if carried to term?

Less than 1% of all abortions, and Col and I haven't even said we'd carry it that far.

[93henfan]

So at what point is it not OK? I'm not in any position to make that call... are you?

Therein lies the difficulty for either side of the argument. You choose to make a blanket statement that it's all murder. Is a woman who miscarries then a murderer?

[89Hen]

Do you not think a government has the right to make murder illegal?

Yes.

Then you are sunk.

[Col Hogan]

So at what point is it not OK? I'm not in any position to make that call... are you?

Therein lies the difficulty for either side of the argument. You choose to make a blanket statement that it's all murder. Is a woman who miscarries then a murderer?

Did the woman do something willingly to force the miscarriage??? Or did it happen for some natural reason???

[93henfan]

Therein lies the difficulty for either side of the argument. You choose to make a blanket statement that it's all murder. Is a woman who miscarries then a murderer?

Did the woman do something willingly to force the miscarriage??? Or did it happen for some natural reason???

You'll have to ask her.

But in all seriousness, there are too many scenarios to cover them all, so how can we have a blanket law?

[Appaholic]

Not trying to speak for 93, but how can you be logical & consider abortion murder...

How can you be logical and not? My thinking...

I think pretty much everyone agrees that killing a one day old child is murder. Agreed?

What about a baby that is one day from being born? I'd have to say 99.99% of people would agree to that (and leave out the "mother in jeopardy" clause because that's less than 1% of abortions). Agreed?

How about at 8 months? Still going to say well over 90% on board. Agreed?

So at what point is it not OK? I'm not in any position to make that call... are you?

Nope. Hence the reason i don't think it should be outlawed. And you can't leave out my argument with regard to "mother in jeopardy". Sure, less than 1% (I'll take your word for it), but you've instantly criminalized that 1% for making a choice to save their own lives. How is forcing them to die to appease an arbitrary & indiscriminate number (days until birth, hours until birth, etc) not murder as well? & how do you know when a baby is one day from being born? There's no guarantees even if you induce labor. What if you induce labor & the baby dies during childbirth? Are they murderer's as well? You're right...you're not in a position to make that call....& outside of your immediate family, you never should be.....

[Appaholic]

Did the woman do something willingly to force the miscarriage??? Or did it happen for some natural reason???

You'll have to ask her.

But in all seriousness, there are too many scenarios to cover them all, so how can we have a blanket law?

Exactly....

[Appaholic]

Why? It isn't true? Killing people who threathen you is justified. OK. How about aborting a fetus that will kill you if carried to term?

And what percentage of abortions performed today in the US fall into that category...



Hint: Percentage wise, start out with a . and a zero...

Unless it's zero, you've now made a criminal out of someone who is trying to save their own life...how do you reconcile your stance on pro-life with that?

[93henfan]

Ruh roh! I look down at "users browsing this forum" and see Catholics entering in droves.

Which one of you fuckers sent up the Bat Signal?

[Appaholic]

How about aborting a fetus that will kill you if carried to term?

Less than 1% of all abortions, and Col and I haven't even said we'd carry it that far.

Forgive me as I came in on the last page of the thread. If you are only wanting to put some stipulations on abortions without outlawing it, great....I'm for it. But if you are going to outlaw it entirely as an option afforded to a family & their doctor to discuss in privacy, then that's when I have a problem with it....